Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: RE: Hulk Promotion Originally posted by artmc Did any one else notice that only the 'Official' Marvel game left out the whole Astral Sight/Vision thing? Very odd, 4 write-ups and only the one from the new Marvel game missed that. I wonder if this is being removed from canon for the Hulk. *art * Not too many picked up on his ability to sense relative location to the Gamma Bomb Test Site. The one that did didn't really go into the details of how it would work either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Did any one else notice that only the 'Official' Marvel game left out the whole Astral Sight/Vision thing? Very odd, 4 write-ups and only the one from the new Marvel game missed that. I wonder if this is being removed from canon for the Hulk. Speaking as someone who's worked on a lot of licensed RPGs involving some extremely popular properties... You're reading way too much into that omission. Go with the Occam's Razor explanation: they forgot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmc Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 RE: Hulk Promotion Originally posted by Steve Long Speaking as someone who's worked on a lot of licensed RPGs involving some extremely popular properties... You're reading way too much into that omission. Go with the Occam's Razor explanation: they forgot it. Good point Steve. I don't have the MURPG *YET*, and I know that there will be more Hulk info in the "Guide To The Hulk and The Avengers" in September. As you said it could be an easy oversight. * art * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmc Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Re: RE: Hulk Promotion Originally posted by Agent X Not too many picked up on his ability to sense relative location to the Gamma Bomb Test Site. The one that did didn't really go into the details of how it would work either. I missed that one. Though Green Ronin did include Direction Sense, which 'could' cover that. * art * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Re: Re: RE: Hulk Promotion Originally posted by artmc I missed that one. Though Green Ronin did include Direction Sense, which 'could' cover that. * art * Yep, I don't know how direction sense works in that game but I assumed it was meant to cover that. I still think he is under-pointed in the Champs write-up. Heck, my aid for his strength needs to go up another 50% in cost so his strength can go up to 150 - I forgot to calculate the impact of "Hulk Not Get Tired, Hulk Only Get Stronger!" aka zero endurance on strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hulk Not Get Tired Originally posted by Agent X I still think he is under-pointed in the Champs write-up. Heck, my aid for his strength needs to go up another 50% in cost so his strength can go up to 150 - I forgot to calculate the impact of "Hulk Not Get Tired, Hulk Only Get Stronger!" aka zero endurance on strength. I agree that the Hulk's rage does seem to fuel his vitality as much as his strength, but I was thinking of taking a different approach to that effect for his HERO writeup: expanding the effects of his Aid to work simultaneously on his Strength and Endurance. His exceptional Recovery stat already makes him virtually tireless at his normal strength, and between that and the extra END each Phase from Aid, he'd still be practically inexhaustable even at STR 150. As far as reaching that level goes (which I also think is a reasonable maximum), is there any reason why you would not want to raise his base STR to 90? That would add up perfectly with the given Aid amount, and is probably the simplest change to enable you to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Hulk Not Get Tired Originally posted by Lord Liaden I agree that the Hulk's rage does seem to fuel his vitality as much as his strength, but I was thinking of taking a different approach to that effect for his HERO writeup: expanding the effects of his Aid to work simultaneously on his Strength and Endurance. His exceptional Recovery stat already makes him virtually tireless at his normal strength, and between that and the extra END each Phase from Aid, he'd still be practically inexhaustable even at STR 150. As far as reaching that level goes (which I also think is a reasonable maximum), is there any reason why you would not want to raise his base STR to 90? That would add up perfectly with the given Aid amount, and is probably the simplest change to enable you to do that. I did raise his base strength to 90. I know the write-up I posted is ugly to look at it but if you look closely you will see we are of like mind on his base strength. Actually, when he is in a calm state hanging out with puppy dogs or little blind kids his strength would probably be 80. The minute he is wary, concerned, annoyed, it would be 90 (for a -0 limitation). Then, when the fighting begins so does the Aid. The Aid to Endurance is definitely another way to go. Just a matter of taste, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Re: Hulk Not Get Tired Originally posted by Agent X I did raise his base strength to 90. I know the write-up I posted is ugly to look at it but if you look closely you will see we are of like mind on his base strength. Mea culpa; I didn't reread your character post, and misinterpreted your reason for increasing the Aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Hulk Not Get Tired Originally posted by Lord Liaden Mea culpa; I didn't reread your character post, and misinterpreted your reason for increasing the Aid. I'm just glad to see there are people out there with similar opinions on scale as I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Hulk Get Tired Originally posted by Morningstar70 So you're just going subjectively, not according to the strength scale which places "Lift 100 tons = STR 60" However, I will admit, I did point out that STR 60 is to dead lift 100 tons, and Marvel measures it by Military Press 100 tons, which required 65 STR. If you are using the OHOTMU for your stats, you are using an arbitrary source. You are also arbitrarily assigning Champions tons to equal "Marvel tons." Read the comic books, look up real-world benchmarks, then tell me the Hulk can only lift 100 tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Hulk Get Tired Originally posted by Morningstar70 I'm playing Devil's Advocate. There's no way that Rogue can only lift 45 tons when he managed to stop a speeding passenger train. What was the issue where Thor lifted the San Diego arch? And who in their right mind could argue that Hercules COULDN'T drag Manhattan island around? Hello. Hercules. Held up the sky. Changed the course of mighty rivers with his bare hands. Glad to hear it. Yeah, my favorite example on Thor was when he towed a Rigellian ship moving FTL back toward Earth. The ship also appeared to be the size of a Destroyer. If I were to build that in Champions, I shudder to think what kind of strength it would require to perform such a feat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpumaa Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Questions regarding the Hulk writeup sorry if i am not doing this right but its my first post. First of all i was just wodnering how come there was no level of growth or at the very least some Density Increase. Does anyone else think there should have been some? Second will the full writeup as i saw in the begging of the post that the writeup was modifyed to fit a single page. Maybe the growth/DI wil showup there as well as the homing ability and anything else being talked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Re: Questions regarding the Hulk writeup Originally posted by peterpumaa sorry if i am not doing this right but its my first post. First of all i was just wodnering how come there was no level of growth or at the very least some Density Increase. Does anyone else think there should have been some? Second will the full writeup as i saw in the begging of the post that the writeup was modifyed to fit a single page. Maybe the growth/DI wil showup there as well as the homing ability and anything else being talked about. They don't define a permanent status of being large or heavy in terms of a persistent growth or density increase power in 5E. It could be expressed as a disadvantage. In the Hulk's case it would be a small one, at best, about 5 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpumaa Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 ahhhhh ok thank you for explaining that. now i have all the more reason i can't wait till my 5th edition gets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Easy answer Originally posted by Agent X Glad to hear it. Yeah, my favorite example on Thor was when he towed a Rigellian ship moving FTL back toward Earth. The ship also appeared to be the size of a Destroyer. If I were to build that in Champions, I shudder to think what kind of strength it would require to perform such a feat. As a fan of Thor, not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Originally posted by i8flesh I'm not sure who at each company did the specific write-ups. If Darren did the Hulk, he is quite a fan boy, lots of small details. A 648 pt Hulk is quite impressive. Guilty as charged. I love ol' Lettuce Lips, especially the '70s Defenders version. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcowboy Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Re: Re: Questions regarding the Hulk writeup Originally posted by Agent X They don't define a permanent status of being large or heavy in terms of a persistent growth or density increase power in 5E. It could be expressed as a disadvantage. In the Hulk's case it would be a small one, at best, about 5 points. I'm still very new to 5E Champs but I thought that this situation what the Inherent advantage was for. Can someone elaborate more on the reason why you wouldn't use it for a character like the Hulk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Questions regarding the Hulk writeup Originally posted by dbcowboy I'm still very new to 5E Champs but I thought that this situation what the Inherent advantage was for. Can someone elaborate more on the reason why you wouldn't use it for a character like the Hulk? The size changing Powers are a package of benefits and drawbacks, and sometimes you may not want your character to have all of them, particularly if he or she is always of a certain size. Defining the character's size as a combination of discreet abilities and Disadvantages allows you to tailor your character more to your liking. I do think that Steve Long's dissuasion against buying Growth or Shrinking Inherent comes across a bit strong, but my impression was that he was trying to break people of the habit of thinking that that was how it had to be done. For my part I have no problem with players buying those Powers Inherent if they prefer the whole package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions regarding the Hulk writeup Originally posted by Lord Liaden The size changing Powers are a package of benefits and drawbacks, and sometimes you may not want your character to have all of them, particularly if he or she is always of a certain size. Defining the character's size as a combination of discreet abilities and Disadvantages allows you to tailor your character more to your liking. I do think that Steve Long's dissuasion against buying Growth or Shrinking Inherent comes across a bit strong, but my impression was that he was trying to break people of the habit of thinking that that was how it had to be done. For my part I have no problem with players buying those Powers Inherent if they prefer the whole package. Yeah, but Steve Long's strategy may be better for min/maxers anyway - unless they are trying to pull some cheese with frameworks/limitations. Instead of having points eaten up by advantages, you just buy the effects normally. You get to place the negative effects on your character in the Disads so that's one less psych lim or vulnerability. It may free up a good 10-30 points for you to buy some stuff you usually have to wait until you get experience for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 I really liked the Hulk write up Darren! It was about what I would expect, even got the astral sight in there. now mine has a base Str of 100 and a max of 250 but that's just my world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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