Does your GM play too?

[Guyon]

I have tired out something new that is working out quite well. I am the creator of our game but have included my character into the group. He adds minor help and sometimes makes mistakes. While I control the major plot of the game the other players also take turns in running small encapsulated scenarios that frees me to play. I have always got stuck in running the game but this way I also get to play nearly 50% of the time.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I did this with a S&S campaign we did in college. I was the main GM, with other players acting as guest GM whenever they had a cool idea for an adventure. Making the main GM's character a devil-may-care type, who doesn't go in for intrigue or high-ambition goals makes this easier to do without stealing the spotlight from the guys who play most of the time.

[Guyon]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

It really adds a new dimention to playing. My charicter does not always join the team when I GM. When he does i never let him be the big hero or save the day. That is the real players job.

I am just thrilled to play when someone else runs it.

 

BTW in the near future my character will be put in a death situation. I am holding my breath that they play as a team and save me.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I usually have NPC/PC's that shows up in any game I run. The NPC/PC's is usually more of a helper and clue finder if needed. I work really hard to not have that C become center stage, so it works.

 

Opps... I misread this. Yes the others that GM do a variation of what I do above.

[nexus]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

The GMPC has to be handled very carefully. I've found it can cause some hard feelings and tension in the group when handled poorly so I prefer to avoid it if possibe, but YMMV.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I'm almost always the GM in the games I'm in, so I hardly get to really play. Occsionally I've handed a campaign over to one of my trusted players and taken over a background character as my PC, but this doesn't happen often.

 

Lately I've found myself bringing in short term NPCs that hang out with the PC group for whatever reason for awhile that I end up playing almost like a PC when nothing important is going on. I'm starting to wonder if I need to play more and GM less. I've got two problems with this: 1, there aren't many, if any, players of mine willing to take on a full time campaign of their own I can play in, and 2, it seems everyone is enjoying the game I'm running right now that they'd hate me if I stopped running it for any reason.

[nexus]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I'm almost always the GM in the games I'm in, so I hardly get to really play. Occsionally I've handed a campaign over to one of my trusted players and taken over a background character as my PC, but this doesn't happen often.

 

Lately I've found myself bringing in short term NPCs that hang out with the PC group for whatever reason for awhile that I end up playing almost like a PC when nothing important is going on. I'm starting to wonder if I need to play more and GM less. I've got two problems with this: 1, there aren't many, if any, players of mine willing to take on a full time campaign of their own I can play in, and 2, it seems everyone is enjoying the game I'm running right now that they'd hate me if I stopped running it for any reason.

 

I know the feeling. Unfortunately I have one additional problem. You know that old saying about how doctors make the worst patients? I tend to prove that is also applies to long term GMs being players.

[Guyon]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

But while I run the over all campaign, once in a while each players runs a scenario that does not change the integrality of the game not the major over all plot. When that happens I play a real character not just an NPC with i find great fun.

[Pentoth]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I usually GM and I don't put in my PC's as NPC's into the party unless it may be for information gathering etc... They don't travel with the party and they are not present to help them battle the villain fo the story.

 

I had a GM who did it and all the other players at the table were irrelevant because of his NPC who could do it all. The players at the table were unecessary. This gave me a bad taste about the whole idea. At my table I generally don't think it is a good idea if even because the players will look to the NPC for assistance beyond their role. (It's a throwback to the other GM running Godly (Litteraly in one case NPC's. )

[stmichaeldet]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

Wow.

 

I can't even imagine turning one of my campaigns over to someone else to run, even for a session or two, so I've never really needed to do this. We do have several GMs in our group, but each runs their own campaign, on a rotating schedule, different game worlds, systems, genres.

 

I guess I'm just a little more overprotective than most.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

Wow.

 

I can't even imagine turning one of my campaigns over to someone else to run, even for a session or two, so I've never really needed to do this. We do have several GMs in our group, but each runs their own campaign, on a rotating schedule, different game worlds, systems, genres.

 

I guess I'm just a little more overprotective than most.

Well, it's obviously best with a serial plot-style rather than a long-term story arc. It's also much better if your gameworld is something everyone is pretty familiar with, so they don't introduce any crazy extras, like a wrecked spaceship in your Middle-Earth campaign. But I haven't had any horrible experiences with it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I know the feeling. Unfortunately I have one additional problem. You know that old saying about how doctors make the worst patients? I tend to prove that is also applies to long term GMs being players.

 

I am soooo familiar with that feeling. I think I've got enough experience as a GM that I can keep my mouth shut when playing at those exact moments when I'd want me to if I were GMing. That and I love playing, probably as much as I love GMing, it's just that I haven't had much choice in which role I take when the choices are GM or don't play at all.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

Actually I think GMs (especially long term ones) make the best players. They know what it's like sitting on the other side of the screen. They know how important it is to keep the party together. They know the kinds of things that are the GM trying to drop the player's clues, and they appreciate story enough to go with it more than others, instead of flying of on some hairbrained random jaunt (not that the players shouldn't explore and help create the story; it's just the chaos of all the players wanting to do completely their own thing despite the story doesn't typically make for a very nice game).

 

I try to encourage my players to GM as soon and as much as possible, because they will be much more tolerable players afterwards.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

When I run, I usually throw in a GMPC. They tend to be utterly useless in social and/or thinking situations, so the PCs don't just turn to them whenever they are stumped and ask them what they want to do. But they also tend to be very competent in whatever their limited area of specialty is -- usually an area that the players have neglected, but which they think they're going to need at some point.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

The GMPC has to be handled very carefully. I've found it can cause some hard feelings and tension in the group when handled poorly so I prefer to avoid it if possibe' date=' but YMMV.[/quote']

Yeah, agreed. Not saying it can't be done well, just that it is so often done poorly. Neither have I ever done "shared universe" GMing - I know many people say it has worked well for them, but personally...

 

Now in my last group we had two different campaigns, run by different GMs on alternating weeks. That way everyone got a chance to play. Worked really well.

[Sundog]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I don't use a GMPC, but I run one game and one of my players GM's the other, which I'm in. I definitely find it a relief to be able to sit down and roleplay just ONE character!

[Silbeg]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

For my Champions game, I have gone back and forth with using GMPCs. My typical use is to fill out the roster... in case not enough players show up that week. Also, typically, those characters were relatively simple, so that I could hand him or her off to a player if things were getting complicated, or that player's character was down for the count.

 

Recently, one of my players had started running an adventure in my game (at my request), and I created a new character for his adventure. In this case, I made the character a novice (in a group of relatively experienced heroes), partially for RP reasons, and partly so that he would have a reason that he wasn't always as assertive (when I am running, he fades a little into the background).

 

I also made sure that his combat effectiveness was less than the norm for the game. In a game where most PCs have about 11-13 DC attack (or more!), with great OCVs, his OCV is "only" 10, and his main DC attack is also 10d6. Now, he tends to MPA with a Hearing Flash (Soundwave is a sonic projector), some of his powers were chosen specifically for SFX for effectiveness. He is also considerably more effective if he is in a very loud environment (louder than most combats, but typical for a sports arena).

 

This has typically worked well, as I can fill in for a weakness that the team has (flying blaster), and can feed some plot devices through him, if necessary. He has a decent set of skills, though none are overwhelming.

 

On the other hand, I wish that the alternate GM would actually be able to run once and a while... I really miss playing Champions (over GMing). On the other hand, a different player (one more likely to play on any given week) has suggested that he would be interested in running a short story thread. So, I may get another chance.

 

Currently, though, the only game I am actually active in as a player is a Forgotten Realms D&D game! I am more in that game for the story line, and the friends, than the system... getting to be less enamored with D20 the more I play it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

Actually I think GMs (especially long term ones) make the best players. They know what it's like sitting on the other side of the screen. They know how important it is to keep the party together. They know the kinds of things that are the GM trying to drop the player's clues, and they appreciate story enough to go with it more than others, instead of flying of on some hairbrained random jaunt (not that the players shouldn't explore and help create the story; it's just the chaos of all the players wanting to do completely their own thing despite the story doesn't typically make for a very nice game).

 

I try to encourage my players to GM as soon and as much as possible, because they will be much more tolerable players afterwards.

 

I don't think everyone who plays the game is suited to both roles. There are some though. In my experience those who have gained a lot of experience on both sides of the GM screen tend to be the best players and GMs. It's not always so though. I've had some great GMs that suck as players because they still try to GM the game, and some great players that suck as GM because they still try to play the game rather than run it. And additional experience in either roll doesn't always help.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I generally don't use a GMPC when I'm running Champions just for the sheer volume of dice (yeah, yeah, standard effect), though I often use the 'Patron' model for a superteam (in the Mystic Titans game, it's a Naga) whose primary function is to give me an IC reason for the team to have basic team things like a vehicle, base, training facilities and all that rot. The Naga will also be tutoring the group's 'true' sorcerers.

 

In Fantasy Hero, I sometimes throw in a healer if the PCs don't have one just so they don't have to stop and rest for days on end after a nasty fight. Fewer dice to throw around means easier happenings.

 

I have been in games with some pretty horrible GMPCs (resulting in what I call 'Game Masturbating'; when you're not really there to run a game, just show off your l33t character that nobody will let you play in another game). When the GMPC does nothing but take the focus off the PCs, something is wrong. The same guy also once had some 1st level werecritters and starting mage types hiking around with King F'ing Albrecht in WoD, complete with the "Two dozen Black Spiral Dancers leap out, he takes on 23, you get the sickly stupid one".

[prestidigitator]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I don't think everyone who plays the game is suited to both roles. There are some though. In my experience those who have gained a lot of experience on both sides of the GM screen tend to be the best players and GMs. It's not always so though. I've had some great GMs that suck as players because they still try to GM the game' date=' and some great players that suck as GM because they still try to play the game rather than run it. And additional experience in either roll doesn't always help.[/quote']

Hmm. I suppose that's true. But I've found that generally players who have been GM a bit are usually better players for it, even if they were crumby GMs (of course, for many people being a good GM takes lots of practice). I generally don't hold with, "Some people will just never..." ideas. I find that if the desire/motivation is there, people are almost always a lot more capable than we'd expect.

[Kenn]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

When I first began GMing, the person who'd been my GMing mentor had had a GMPC in the group he ran, so it was very natural for me to include one. I got rather annoyed when the team elected the GMPC the team leader...

 

By about the 3rd session, though, one of my players took a turn at running the game, and having the GMPC around made it possible. This was all back a few years (Reagan was still President.)

 

It wasn't that long before other players (the one who tried in the third game, and my GMing mentor, and others) were all running campaigns on the same game world. That's how the RC Universe was born.

 

Today, 19 years later, there's been 110% (mentor guy left in 1989, came back a few months ago) player turnover, but the campaign's still going. The GMPC is still there. Lots of ex-PC NPCs that I can rotate in or out as needed.

[Silbeg]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I don't think everyone who plays the game is suited to both roles. There are some though. In my experience those who have gained a lot of experience on both sides of the GM screen tend to be the best players and GMs. It's not always so though. I've had some great GMs that suck as players because they still try to GM the game' date=' and some great players that suck as GM because they still try to play the game rather than run it. And additional experience in either roll doesn't always help.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I can see that.

However, a good GM will probably make a decent player. I would also say that it takes a good player to be a good GM, as well.

 

A GM needs to be able to create memorible characters, something that a good player is good at. They need to be able to create interesting and engaging story-lines; but also these need to be ones that the players will enjoy.

 

A GM needs to be adaptable, and a good improvisor.

 

A player needs to create interesting characters, join in on the story line (and not just sit back and wait for the fight). The best players will inspire story lines, and will drive certain aspects of the campaign themselves.

 

But, most of all, everyone needs to have fun!

[CBikle]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

I don't really mind the GM including his character in a game he's running, so long as his PC is largely passive and doesn't try to "steer" our decisions.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

Hmm. I suppose that's true. But I've found that generally players who have been GM a bit are usually better players for it' date=' even if they were crumby GMs (of course, for many people being a good GM takes [i']lots[/i] of practice).

True.

I generally don't hold with, "Some people will just never..." ideas. I find that if the desire/motivation is there, people are almost always a lot more capable than we'd expect.

Agreed. I'm just saying there are some who simply lack that desire/motivation, or may have it but are assuming/convinced the role means something it's not.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Does your GM play too?

 

Yeah, I can see that.

However, a good GM will probably make a decent player. I would also say that it takes a good player to be a good GM, as well.

 

A GM needs to be able to create memorible characters, something that a good player is good at. They need to be able to create interesting and engaging story-lines; but also these need to be ones that the players will enjoy.

 

A GM needs to be adaptable, and a good improvisor.

 

A player needs to create interesting characters, join in on the story line (and not just sit back and wait for the fight). The best players will inspire story lines, and will drive certain aspects of the campaign themselves.

 

But, most of all, everyone needs to have fun!

What makes a good, or great, GM or player will vary from group to group, but in general, a "good" player will share the same traits as a "good" actor and have some of the traits of a decent writer. A "good" GM will share the same traits of a "good" director and writer/author, and some of the traits of a descent or good actor. Both "good" GMs and players will also be quick thinking, imaginative and creative. The difference between good and great is either more of the above traits, or an audiance (the other players) who really like whatever happens to be presented to them. Anything can be good, or even great, if it's well received.