What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

[bigdamnhero]

Just curious which pre-5th Edition Hero books still get the most use, for those of you who have them? I don't mean which ones do you have on the shelf, but which of them do you still find useful? For me, 4ed Ultimate Mentalist definitely tops the list. Next would probably be 4ed Horror Hero. I used to get a lot of mileage out of the 4ed Fantasy Hero Companions, but I'm not currently in a FH game. (Besides, I have the 5ed Grimoires now.) Danger International would probably make the list too, if I hadn't foolishly sold it to someone a few years back.

[Thrakazog]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

The Ultimate Mentalist and The Ultimate Martial Artist still see action in my game works. I have both 4th ed versions as .pdf files, so that helps.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

I use a fair amount of character material-

I much prefer the 4th ed VIPER over 5th. Other books I use - High Tech Enemies, The Mutant File, characters from Strike force, the characters and moonbase from Atlas unleashed. PSI as consitutied in fourth. I generally run Wings of the Valkerie for any campaign I run. Invasion gets a fair amount of use. Enemies: Villiany unbound gets a lot of use - my favorite enemies book in Champions any edition.

I generally use the 4th ed champions rather than the 5th.

 

What it amounts to is that I use 5th ed rules and 4th ed Champs U, with the addition of Vibora Bay, Millenium City, and the 5th ed Demon orginization. I don't like the tone of the 5th ed CU.

 

As for rules, I use a little from TUM but other than that I just keep a few holdovers (Damage Shield, Regen a couple others.)

 

 

But then I use a great deal of non Champions material for sources - I borrow bits and character from just about every superhero RPG - Supertemps from GURPS is a mainstay in my campaigns.

[zornwil]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Back in the day I couldn't afford supplements and besides was narrowly focused on my own world setting, so bought very little. In general, I tend to read, absorb something into a campaign possibly, and then it remains, I don't tend to go back to source books much at all, from any era. I have gone back to Champions in 3-D in the last year, that's the only one that comes to mind (it's a great book, I think, btw).

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

CLOWN!

 

(Kidding... no one uses Clown.)

 

Classic Enemies, Ultimate Mentalist

 

C:TNM for bragging rights- it's the special signed edition.

(If it wasn't, I would use it for starting the fireplace.)

[Checkmate]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

A while back, I used to use C:TNM for the setting, I didn't care for the rules as, but I loved the setting (and they're still my favorite Champions team to date).

 

Curently I'm with everyone else, I use the Ultimate Mentalist, still use 4th Ed. Damage Shield and Regeneration.

 

With the exception of UMA I'm not really thrilled with 5ed Ultimate books (although admittedly I don't have the Ultimate Speedster). I think they new to break them down more. Give the Champions setting it's own Ultimate series then combine the rest. For instance: The Ultimate Super Mage, just for champions, then come out with The Ultimate Mystic, for the rest of the settings. JMHO YMMV.

[OzMike]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Classic Enemies, 4th Viper, Classic Organisations (Well, the Russian Stuff), Strikeforce (Strictly speaking that's 3rd).

[BeZurKur]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Normals Unbound

Underworld Enemies

Creatures of the Night

and occasionally, Corporations

[RDU Neil]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Ninja Hero... big time. Best written game supplement ever.

 

Strikeforce is up there.

 

Classic Enemies

 

Zodiac

 

Hero Bestiary (easier to find stuff in the 4th Ed, despite the index in the 5th)

 

4th Ed Dark Champions... much more reader friendly that 5th.

 

other 4th Dark Champs supplements... for characters to be killed, etc.

[Sketchpad]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

I tend to use Classic Enemies (when I had it ), Mind Games, Champions Presents #2 (for COIL), Strikeforce, Blood & Dr. McQuark, Alien Enemies, To Serve & Protect, DEMON from 4th ed (for which I only have Target: Hero) and the e-book Primus ... I have used C:NM for the world, as I think it had more meat then some of the current world

[casualplayer]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Ninja Hero... big time. Best written game supplement ever.

 

Strikeforce is up there.

 

Classic Enemies

 

Zodiac

 

...a few more....

 

Wow, almost the same list for me except I was never a big fan of Dark Champions. I also still use Champions of the North and Kingdom of Champions.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Ninja Hero... big time. Best written game supplement ever.

 

 

The horror that is Shinobi-yama.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

2e rules book.

 

Everything else has been used as source material for making 'plug in' type thingies: new maneuvers, new frameworks, new powers, etc. Even then we re-do it to be more 2e compatible.

 

Our groups just prefer the lighter, less rules-complex version of the game.

 

no published settings or characters, but several 2, 3, and 4-e supplements: Champions presents, Ninja Hero, etc.

[Lemurion]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

I use the 4E Hudson City stuff like Justice Not Law, and mix that into 5E Hudson City. Then again I'm another who generally prefers street level superheroes to vigilantes. Batman or Daredevil all the way, the Punisher's a villain.

 

Having said that, I'm still buying 4E stuff when I can find it. I bought the 4E Atlantis supplement yesterday, along with Ultimate Speedster and Champions Battlegrounds. Of course, I'm another who prefers the feel of the 4E CU to the 5E. I think 5E's a better system, but I prefer a lot of the older world.

 

End result mix and match: Oh, and Strike Force. Cannot forget Strike Force.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

CLOWN!

 

(Kidding... no one uses Clown.)

 

I use what ever I have of the older stuff, and yes that means CLOWN. I love those madcaps, as GM, as PC-----well let's say I have a few that will kill them on sight.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

If it's 4th Edition, I use it. I own a number of 5th Edition books, including FRED, but I don't use them. The straw that broke the camel's back so far as my decision to remain 4th Ed. was 1) my inability to make the points balance under the new rules, 2) the inability of Hero Designer to make a decent character sheet and 3) the intimidation factor of dropping a 600+ page rulebook on the table in front of my players and say "This is what we're using now." Also, I have 4th Ed. core rules in .pdf form, which I copy and give to my players for reference when we play.

 

Matt "Old-school-but-not-as-much-as-Duke-Bushido" Frisbee

[Checkmate]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

If it's 4th Edition' date=' I use it. I own a number of 5th Edition books, including FRED, but I don't use them. The straw that broke the camel's back so far as my decision to remain 4th Ed. was 1) my inability to make the points balance under the new rules, [/quote']

Which part were you having trouble with? There isn't very much difference at all between the two, unless all your characters had Damage Shield and Shapeshift.

2) the inability of Hero Designer to make a decent character sheet

Actually, this should be worded "Your inability to make a decent character sheet with Hero Designer. If you can make it with HTML you can pretty much make it with HD. There are tons of character sheets on the HD website, and a few that look EXACTLY like the 4th Ed. Sheet.

3) the intimidation factor of dropping a 600+ page rulebook on the table in front of my players and say "This is what we're using now."

The BBB was a pretty thick book too. If your players are already playing HERO, the intimidation is gone once you say, "This is what we're using, pretty much the same as before, with a few clarifications and a couple of new things". If they haven't played HERO, then sidekick is a very timid booklet to get players started.

Also, I have 4th Ed. core rules in .pdf form, which I copy and give to my players for reference when we play.

While it means shelling out more money, I do belive you can get 5th Ed. in PDF format also.

 

If you like 4th great, it just seems to me your reasoning is a little shakey. I don't understand the "points not balancing" at ALL. Most of my characters converted over from 4th to 5th with absolutely no change in points, and not using 5th because the electronic version doesn't give you an output you like doesn't sound right either, but JMHO.

 

Check "Wonder why everyone wants to be like Keith" Mate

[zornwil]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Hey, Matt, feel free to bug us more - I realize 5ER seems intimidating but really the points stuff hasn't changed much since 4th, not much at all, in general (I realize Damage Shield and a few other things changed significantly, but those really are exceptions). As to your players, you don't need to show them that - you could always use Sidekick or shield them largely from a lot of it. The combat handbook might be good, too, to defray some of that. Sorry you're having problems with HD, too - sometimes one major frustration, as with 5th, leads to many others. I don't want to "sell" you on anything, and if you're enjoying 4th I'm not trying to make you change, but 5th has some interesting stuff to offer, too.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Heck in my last game group, a couple players didn't get around to upgrading to 5th Ed for a couple years after I did. So I as the GM was using FRED, and they were still using 4 Ed. We agreed that in the event of a dispute FRED had the final word, but I could probably count on one hand the number of times it was a problem at all.

 

Those of you who said you like the feel of the 4th Ed CU better than 5th Ed - just curious what you liked better about it? (For various reasons, I never played a supers game under 4 Ed.)

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Those of you who said you like the feel of the 4th Ed CU better than 5th Ed - just curious what you liked better about it? (For various reasons, I never played a supers game under 4 Ed.)

 

4th ed CU feels like the kind of comic books I read, bronze or silver age stuff.

5th ed fells to darkage/iron age - lots of magic, registration in place, lots of superheroes dying all over the place in the history - incredibly powerfull villians that kill PCs at a whim. And the whole "mateline" magic drifts in and out thing is irritating.

[casualplayer]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Those of you who said you like the feel of the 4th Ed CU better than 5th Ed - just curious what you liked better about it? (For various reasons' date=' I never played a supers game under 4 Ed.)[/quote']

 

A whole lot of Dark Champions got intermingled into mainstream HERO System 5th. Understandable, as DC was Steve Long's baby, but 5th Ed. favors the gunbunnies way, way too much as written. Just feels like someone got their chocolate into my peanut butter sometimes.

[Lemurion]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

As has been said before, it has a lot to do with the tone. I've never liked Punisher or the other Gunbunnies and 5th seems to push that a little more. In 4E there were a number of very cool street level vigilantes in Hudson City, (Sandman, Jack O'Lantern for starters) who don't seem to have made it into 5E.

 

I also prefer the Champions from 4E over those from 5E. It's enough little things that I still buy 4E stuff when I can find it, and will continue to do so. Any game I run is a mix of the two for background, and 5E for rules.

[Marketeer]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

I mix and match 4th and 5th: I like the overall tone of 4th, but there are parts where 5th appears more internally consistent.

 

Likewise, some 4th characters have not aged well (Seeker just comes across as trite and cheesy now), so they tend to be rotated out in favor of their 5th ed. counterparts.

 

Nighthawk is not a great improvement over Seeker though, so both go...

[Rapier]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

Money's been a little tight this past year, so my 5th Edition upgrades/purchases have lagged quite a bit. Because of that, I still use quite a bit of my 4th Edition stuff.

 

I frequently use Ultimate Mentalist (its got good astral projection stuff), a number of the enemies (Classic Enemies, CLOWN) as well as some of the sourcebooks (Kingdom of Champions, Champions of the North). I still use quite a bit of my Dark Champions stuff from 4th Edition, because I can't swing upgrading my books yet (other than the main sourcebook, which I picked up last year). I also use CyberHero here and there for material.

[Lemurion]

Re: What pre-5th Edition Hero books do you still use?

 

I mix and match 4th and 5th: I like the overall tone of 4th, but there are parts where 5th appears more internally consistent.

 

Likewise, some 4th characters have not aged well (Seeker just comes across as trite and cheesy now), so they tend to be rotated out in favor of their 5th ed. counterparts.

 

Nighthawk is not a great improvement over Seeker though, so both go...

 

But at least he is an improvement over Seeker. I was more thinking Obisidian over Ironclad. I've never been much on Ninjas anyway, so I have a Seeker-size hole in my view of the 4E Champions.