rjcurrie Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? My expectation is that DoJ made a commitment that this adventure would be available only in C25, and it would be inapppropriate for them to go back on that now. [i also expect this will be one more reason that we won't see a special product like this again any time soon...] I'm curious exactly what you mean by this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I'm curious exactly what you mean by this statement. How many threads have there been complaining about (off the top of my head): - IoDD not being made available elsewhere - GenCon attendees getting at the books before the pre-orders came out - Requiring a $10 non-refundable deposit Now how many overall positive threads can you recall on this special product? I don't think this was a huge moneymaker for DoJ - it was a celebration of the system's 25th anniversary. DoJ tried to put something special together for the celebration, and basically got dumped on for it. For every person that views it negatively, and has been vocal on the boards to that effect, there's probably a dozen who are neutral or positive towards it, but remains silent. At the end of the day, however, unless this is creating a huge profit boost, why should Steve, Darren et al set themselves up for another round of grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I don't think this was a huge moneymaker for DoJ - it was a celebration of the system's 25th anniversary. DoJ tried to put something special together for the celebration, and basically got dumped on for it. Yeah, I'd agree there. I didn't have the moola (and don't) to get it. And I generally shy away from collectables or special editions like that - so while I have every other book HERO has ever put out, I'll miss this one. But I'd never complain about it - I thought it was a cool product, and there should be something special in it. And update of the very first adventure is perfect for an anniversary product. I'd love to see IoDD in some other form in a year or two, but I don't expect it. I think that the whole thing was cool, and happy that numerous people got to have fun with it. I can't, but I don't blame DOJ for it existing or having unique content - it was my choice not to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? Yup. This wasn't about profit. This was about celebrating an anniversary. I know I bought it knowing that it let me into a special club of sorts; Folks rabid enough to need a $100 edition of the books, and who will get the writer/designer/editor/playtester stories and the adventure while those less crazed will just sit back and complain. I am hero geek, hear me roar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregghelmberger Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I'm not dumping on them for doing it. I understand why they did it, and I understand the pressures pushing them toward not releasing it in another format. I'm just saying they've got a product I want and I would be willing to pay a reasonable price to get it in a format that requires no, or minimal, additional work on their end. If they choose not to do it, well, OK, fair enough, it's their company and their choice. I'll keep my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? How many threads have there been complaining about (off the top of my head): - IoDD not being made available elsewhere - GenCon attendees getting at the books before the pre-orders came out - Requiring a $10 non-refundable deposit Now how many overall positive threads can you recall on this special product? I don't think this was a huge moneymaker for DoJ - it was a celebration of the system's 25th anniversary. DoJ tried to put something special together for the celebration, and basically got dumped on for it. For every person that views it negatively, and has been vocal on the boards to that effect, there's probably a dozen who are neutral or positive towards it, but remains silent. At the end of the day, however, unless this is creating a huge profit boost, why should Steve, Darren et al set themselves up for another round of grief. Personally, I think you and many other are overvaluing how much of an impact your comments on these boards have on DoJ. Note my earlier comment that if you offered people free copies of Hero products for life they'd find something to complain about it. The complaints about C25 really don't seem to be much more than the usual grumbling that comes around about every product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? We do not plan to reprint IoDD, because I think it would make C25 less of a "special event" and be unfair to those who did pick up the book. (OK, maybe we'll reprint it when we do the Champions 50th Anniversary, which will probably be beamed directly into your brain.) And yeah, I admit we've been a little surprised by the number of people who seem ready to assume that if the book takes a few days to get somewhere it's a sign that we dislike them personally, or plan to rip them off or something. Tina's put in way too many hours double-packing, hauling the things around the country and keeping track of all the special requests to deserve that. On the other hand, I'm trying to take it as a positive that people really want the book ASAP, which certainly beats the alternative. After all, the internet's for complaining as much as it is for porn. We've gotten plenty of compliments on the product, and I think it's been totally worth doing- I'm very proud of the book myself, and I'm chuffed to have one on my own shelf. I'm not in a rush to do it again, though. (Which is a shame for those who were hoping this meant we could start a whole new line of 25th Anniversary hardback editions of all of our books- sorry, Jason, but plans for the 25th Anniversary hardcover of Scourges of the Deep have been scuttled.) dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I've got mine, so I'm happy as a clam, or other mollusk of pleasant disposition. But I suspect the "Where's my book!" thing comes from not knowing how much time and care went into shipping them individually, and therefore they weren't all going to go out in one day. Double-boxing these seemed like overkill, but then I remembered how much I paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? If you guys ever do a book specially dedicated to ol' Doc D., I won't complain if you reprint the revised IoDD there along with some new material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregghelmberger Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? After all' date=' the internet's for complaining as much as it is for porn. [/quote'] Wait, does this mean Hero Games is going to put out porn? ... ... ... I'd buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? After all' date=' the internet's for complaining as much as it is for porn.[/quote'] That's what C25 needed! A Sapphire centerfold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? If you guys ever do a book specially dedicated to ol' Doc D.' date=' I won't complain if you reprint the revised IoDD there along with some new material.[/quote'] ohhh. A book devoted to Doc. That would be cool. The doc, bases, lots of affiliated villains, robots and agents, and a couple of adventures. I like the way your mind works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? The adventure appears to be much like the old' date=' pre-Day of the Destroyer versions. It does include several new villains (an aquatic brick, a speedster-brick, and an energy projector) as well as vehicles & equipment from the arsenal of Dr. Destroyer. It also includes a special robot used by Destroyer.[/quote'] I thought the Destroyer Android was a particularly nice touch. Of course Dr. D would have his own version of Doombots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I like the idea of a Dr. D book too. Maybe as a chapter in a Megavillains book (although there is a section for that in CKC, this would be more about Megavillain plots, minions and bases). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allensh Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? We do not plan to reprint IoDD, because I think it would make C25 less of a "special event" and be unfair to those who did pick up the book. (OK, maybe we'll reprint it when we do the Champions 50th Anniversary, which will probably be beamed directly into your brain.) And yeah, I admit we've been a little surprised by the number of people who seem ready to assume that if the book takes a few days to get somewhere it's a sign that we dislike them personally, or plan to rip them off or something. Tina's put in way too many hours double-packing, hauling the things around the country and keeping track of all the special requests to deserve that. On the other hand, I'm trying to take it as a positive that people really want the book ASAP, which certainly beats the alternative. After all, the internet's for complaining as much as it is for porn. We've gotten plenty of compliments on the product, and I think it's been totally worth doing- I'm very proud of the book myself, and I'm chuffed to have one on my own shelf. I'm not in a rush to do it again, though. (Which is a shame for those who were hoping this meant we could start a whole new line of 25th Anniversary hardback editions of all of our books- sorry, Jason, but plans for the 25th Anniversary hardcover of Scourges of the Deep have been scuttled.) dw Rats..there goes that solid gold collector's edition of Border Crossing I was hoping for... Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? ohhh. A book devoted to Doc. That would be cool. The doc' date=' bases, lots of affiliated villains, robots and agents, and a couple of adventures. I like the way your mind works. [/quote'] Oh, yes! Details of the Valley of Javangari. Maps and stats for Destruga before it sank. Earlier versions of the Destroyer armor, for period Champions games or for people who want a toned-down Dr. D. Stats for Albert Zerstoiten without his armor, and maybe as he was during WW II for Golden Age Champions games. Maybe even a writeup for Mini-D. If the new Island adventure was reprinted there, it should be followed up with the update/expansion of Day of the Destroyer that Scott Bennie has had in the back of his mind all this time. Throw in Dr. D's other bases, more supervillainous minions, robots, agents, vehicles and weapons, some additional plot scenarios and seeds, stir well, and then hold out your hand for my money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? Oh' date=' yes![/b'] Details of the Valley of Javangari. Maps and stats for Destruga before it sank. Earlier versions of the Destroyer armor, for period Champions games or for people who want a toned-down Dr. D. Stats for Albert Zerstoiten without his armor, and maybe as he was during WW II for Golden Age Champions games. Maybe even a writeup for Mini-D. If the new Island adventure was reprinted there, it should be followed up with the update/expansion of Day of the Destroyer that Scott Bennie has had in the back of his mind all this time. Throw in Dr. D's other bases, more supervillainous minions, robots, agents, vehicles and weapons, some additional plot scenarios and seeds, stir well, and then hold out your hand for my money! Heck... I might even buy that... and I don't even like Dr. D much! And for the record, the maps of Dr. D's island in C25 are probably going to be pressed into service as the Island of Dr. Han for my Enter the Dragon homage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I'm sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but are there any plans to make this adventure available to people who didn't get C25? Perhaps in .pdf form, and perhaps after some interval has passed? As I think Darren stated a few posts above me, we have no plans to ever reprint it or sell it individually. Having it available only in C25 is one of the things that makes C25 special. I don't think this was a huge moneymaker for DoJ At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to be argumentative (which I'm definitely not ), boy are you wrong. It was actually very profitable, so much so that we joked around at GenCon about coming up with lots of other excuses for 25th anniversary books (25th anniversary of the offices moving to San Bruno! 25th anniversary of European Enemies!). What prevents us from doing more is that it's a major logistical hassle. I expect we will do other special projects in the future, but we're not going to go out of our way to hunt up opportunities for them. A book devoted to Doc. That would be cool. The doc, bases, lots of affiliated villains, robots and agents, and a couple of adventures. Heh... I already have this book outlined, in fact, though it's not on the schedule. It's just one I've had in mind for a while. However, it won't reprint the IoDD stuff from C25; it will be chock-full of all-new Destroyer fiendishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_tamer Posted August 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? Heh... I already have this book outlined' date=' in fact, though it's not on the schedule. It's just one I've had in mind for a while. [/quote'] Please put it on the schedule. Now. For soon. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to be argumentative (which I'm definitely not )' date=' boy are you wrong. It was actually very profitable, so much so that we joked around at GenCon about coming up with lots of other excuses for 25th anniversary books (25th anniversary of the offices moving to San Bruno! 25th anniversary of European Enemies!). What prevents us from doing more is that it's a major logistical hassle. I expect we will do other special projects in the future, but we're not going to go out of our way to hunt up opportunities for them. [/quote'] I'm guessing. You're not. That's not argumentative. Plus, I'm glad the project generated a return for DoJ. However, I would include the opportunity cost of those "major logistical hassles" in determining profitability - that's a cost of the project as well. Looking forward to other special projects. Heh... I already have this book outlined' date=' in fact, though it's not on the schedule. It's just one I've had in mind for a while. However, it won't reprint the IoDD stuff from C25; it will be chock-full of all-new Destroyer fiendishness.[/quote'] How fast can you get it on the schedule? It would sure be a nice celebration of the 25th anniversary of Dr. Destroyer, the first master villain for the Hero System... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? IHow fast can you get it on the schedule? It would sure be a nice celebration of the 25th anniversary of Dr. Destroyer' date=' the first master villain for the Hero System... [/quote'] Wouldn't that be Mechanon? Since he was on Champions 1st Edition (IIRC) as a sample villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? Wouldn't that be Mechanon? Since he was on Champions 1st Edition (IIRC) as a sample villain. Well, Mechie was there. He didn't read like a master villain at the time, just a sample villain powerful enough to take on the whole team. He didn't have any minions. [besides, that doesn't support getting the book on the schedule ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? Well, Mechie was there. He didn't read like a master villain at the time, just a sample villain powerful enough to take on the whole team. He didn't have any minions. [besides, that doesn't support getting the book on the schedule ] Oh, I see... Master Villain status all depends on your PR team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I never had the first edition of Champions (I started with Second), but if Mechanon was indeed included in it that would mean that an incarnation of him (it?) has been in the core/genre book for every edition of Champs. To me that makes him the Champions arch villain, moreso than Dr. D. Heh... I already have this book outlined' date=' in fact, though it's not on the schedule. It's just one I've had in mind for a while. However, it won't reprint the IoDD stuff from C25; it will be chock-full of all-new Destroyer fiendishness.[/quote'] We should spread the word about this to see how receptive people would be to it. Maybe start a poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Re: C25 Island of Dr. Destroyer: Official? I never had the first edition of Champions (I started with Second)' date=' but if Mechanon was indeed included in it that would mean that an incarnation of him (it?) has been in the core/genre book for every edition of Champs. To me that makes him [b']the[/b] Champions arch villain, moreso than Dr. D. I know Mechanon was in the earliest Champions books I saw, along with... Howler, Green Dragon, and Ice... Icestar? Icicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.