Hero is broken

[zornwil]

Re: Hero is broken

 

An attack that can inflict 43 BODY?

86 - 43 = 43

2^43 Hits

 

 

Respectively

54 BOD : 86 - 54 = 32 = 2^32 Hits (4 Billion hits)

61 BOD : 86 - 61 = 25 = 2^25 Hits (32 million hits)

69 BOD : 86 - 69 = 17 = 2^17 Hits (128,000 hits)

72 BOD : 86 - 72 = 14 = 2^14 Hits (16,000 hits)

78 BOD : 86 - 78 = 8 = 2^8 Hits (256 hits)

 

 

 

Algorithm

 

Number of hits to destroy = 2 taken to the power of (Object Body + Def - DCs of attack)

 

So a 25 BODY object with 5 DEF would require the following number of hits to destroy from a 10d6 EB. . . .

 

2^(30 - 10) = 2^20 = 1 million hits to destroy

 

 

With a 20d6 EB you'd have 2^(30-20) = 2^10 = 1,024 hits to destroy

 

With a 30d6 EB you'd have 2^(30-30) = 2^0 = 1 hit to destroy

Are you really suggesting reducing it to such a predictive formula? Seems to defeat the way the rest of the game works vis-a-vis both absolutes and probabilities in combat.

[zornwil]

Re: Hero is broken

 

That is the whole point the second half of my post. You must think exponentially if you want accurate results when using an exponential system.

 

Even assuming that the Earth has 0 DEF and takes 51 points of BODY from the strike, 2 such attacks added together should NOT do 102 BODY total. Thinking exponentially, 51 damage + 51 damage = 52 BODY damage total.

 

One Thousand 51d6 attacks should (assuming a 0 def Earth) should result in 61 points of BODY damage.

 

One Million 51d6 attacks should (assuming a 0 def Earth) should result in 71 points of BODY damage.

 

The problems come when you try to mix exponential and linear scales. I do really like HERO, but that is a point where the system does have a few problems (IMO, of course).

I think the problem is the BOD and size assignments, ultimately.

 

If you think about it, the Earth has megascaled BOD...where this goes...I'm not sure but I think all this size stuff is related. When we detonate a 51d6 RKA in a game, it creates damage only across 2m hexes. Let's set aside whether it "should" be explosive, but even if it is explosive, it's essentially still only, against the size of the Earth, a small number of hexes.

 

Unless an attack is targetting "the Earth" and not "hexes of the Earth", I don't think we can compare its force to the total BOD of the Earth as some single object. This is where I think size and # hexes plays a role.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Hero is broken

 

But I think in terms of "effectiveness" it's far more tricky. In a campaign where 12d6 is about what a roughly standard attack, then 10d6 is often even less effective proportionately, since defenses are built more towards the 12d6 standard. IF, say, defenses are typically 20, let's say, then the 10d6 will often do 15 STUN while the 12d6 will do 22 STUN, so it's almost 50% more effective.

 

That was my point about effectiveness - the basis of the system probably is exponential, given early designers' comments and observed STR effects, but that doesn't and shouldn't translate to anything less than a very much non-straightforward effectiveness.

I think for the purposes of this discussion, which centers on inflicting damage and the game effect we call BODY, we should just ignore Stun completely. We are, after all, discussing destroying objects and characters, not knocking them unconscious. That being the case, any pretense that 12d6 is 4X as effective as 10d6 fails any reasonable test completely. (Even using your Stun example, we're talking only 50% better, not 400%.) In the real world the result of any attack is just as dependent on the defenses as on the power of the attack. An attack which is 400% more powerful should have an equally improved chance of penetrating the defenses. It clearly does not.

 

I think it would be far more accurate to state that the basis for calculating attacks' power was always exponential, but that the basis for calculating the effects of those attacks was quite clearly linear. George McDonald and the other people who originally designed Champions way back in the Stone Age had to base their numbers on something; and kinetic energy was an obvious and easy choice since copious data for firearms and military weaponry was widely available. But, as I illustrated with my example of the sabot rounds earlier in this thread, there are far more factors involved in calculating the effectiveness of an attack than simply how much raw energy is involved and the toughness of the defenses.

 

(I am, by the way, pretty much agreeing with you - I'm just trying to enunciate my own thoughts on the matter. )

[zornwil]

Re: Hero is broken

 

I think for the purposes of this discussion' date=' which centers on inflicting damage and the game effect we call BODY, we should just ignore Stun completely. We are, after all, discussing [i']destroying[/i] objects and characters, not knocking them unconscious. That being the case, any pretense that 12d6 is 4X as effective as 10d6 fails any reasonable test completely. (Even using your Stun example, we're talking only 50% better, not 400%.) In the real world the result of any attack is just as dependent on the defenses as on the power of the attack. An attack which is 400% more powerful should have an equally improved chance of penetrating the defenses. It clearly does not.

 

I think it would be far more accurate to state that the basis for calculating attacks' power was always exponential, but that the basis for calculating the effects of those attacks was quite clearly linear. George McDonald and the other people who originally designed Champions way back in the Stone Age had to base their numbers on something; and kinetic energy was an obvious and easy choice since copious data for firearms and military weaponry was widely available. But, as I illustrated with my example of the sabot rounds earlier in this thread, there are far more factors involved in calculating the effectiveness of an attack than simply how much raw energy is involved and the toughness of the defenses.

 

(I am, by the way, pretty much agreeing with you - I'm just trying to enunciate my own thoughts on the matter. )

Yes, I think that's a well-stated summary on it, thanks.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hero is broken

 

An attack that can inflict 43 BODY?

86 - 43 = 43

2^43 Hits

***********************************************

Algorithm

 

Number of hits to destroy = 2 taken to the power of (Object Body + Def - DCs of attack)

 

So a 25 BODY object with 5 DEF would require the following number of hits to destroy from a 10d6 EB. . . .

 

2^(30 - 10) = 2^20 = 1 million hits to destroy

 

 

With a 20d6 EB you'd have 2^(30-20) = 2^10 = 1,024 hits to destroy

 

With a 30d6 EB you'd have 2^(30-30) = 2^0 = 1 hit to destroy

 

Actually, on further reflection after posting, it occured that, if a single hit can inflict 1 BOD, then the next hit muct destroy the target if each BOD is double the difficulty of destruction.

 

By that logic, BOD 86 is double BOD 85, right? So the 1 BOD between 85 and 86 must equal the whole of the 85 previous BOD.

 

Under this model, there are only three possibilities:

 

- Attacks which cannot move the object closer to destroyed (nil BOD damage)

 

- Attacks which require two successes to destroy (anything capable of reducing the uninjured target's BOD by 1)

 

- Attacks which require one success to destroy (anything capable of reducing the uninjured target's BOD by more than 1)

[Toadmaster]

Re: Hero is broken

 

First of all I'd like to offer a big thank you to those posting in this thread, I've been offline for about 4 months but it feels like I never left since this same argument is still going on. And now since someone had to bring up a gun question I must speak

 

As an example' date=' early fin-stabilized sabot rounds from tank guns were devastating out to about 2000 meters, but failed utterly much beyond that range. Why? Because the projectile was moving so fast that over 2000 meters it started to melt from friction with the air and what hit the target became a rod of semi-molten metal rather than a red-hot arrow of steel. It weighed just as much and was travelling just as fast, but without the point to focus the impact energy into a tiny area (effectively multiplying the force)the projectile became virtually useless. With improvements in material science, such as using tungsten or depleted uranium sabots, we can now engage targets up to 5 kilometers away. It's not just how hard something hits, but how it focuses that impact, that determines what the effect on the target will be.[/quote']

 

Actually the effect has nothing to do with energy, the tip melted making the attack non-armor piercing therefore it no longer could penetrate the armor. Various AP rounds have had this problem since the beginning of armored combat, armor plate is hard and the design of the tip of the round can make all the differance between the round shattering on impact or glancing off the armor.

 

As for the overall argument I wouldn't say HERO is broken but it is slightly wonky, the exponential nature has some serious problems once you start getting past DC10 or so. I do like the idea that size is important as well as body, that makes alot of sense to me. That was a problem with anti-tank rifles and even some HEAT rounds, they could punch a hole in the armor but then what, it just made a small hole, maybe killed a crew person or damaged some piece of equipment but the tank for the most part was still free to run around the battlefield, a little draftier but still quite capable of ruining the infantryman's day. Seems to me the Earth would be the same, if I shoot a hole through it with my 40mm death ray, the Earth has a hole roughly 1.5" in it, a bummer if I drop my keys into it (too small to reach your arm in after them, and hard to see from a plane if I quickly fly to the other side of the planet) but hardly something the Earth is really going to notice.

[Mister E]

Re: Hero is broken

 

First of all I'd like to offer a big thank you to those posting in this thread, I've been offline for about 4 months but it feels like I never left since this same argument is still going on. And now since someone had to bring up a gun question I must speak

 

 

 

Actually the effect has nothing to do with energy, the tip melted making the attack non-armor piercing therefore it no longer could penetrate the armor. Various AP rounds have had this problem since the beginning of armored combat, armor plate is hard and the design of the tip of the round can make all the differance between the round shattering on impact or glancing off the armor.

 

As for the overall argument I wouldn't say HERO is broken but it is slightly wonky, the exponential nature has some serious problems once you start getting past DC10 or so. I do like the idea that size is important as well as body, that makes alot of sense to me. That was a problem with anti-tank rifles and even some HEAT rounds, they could punch a hole in the armor but then what, it just made a small hole, maybe killed a crew person or damaged some piece of equipment but the tank for the most part was still free to run around the battlefield, a little draftier but still quite capable of ruining the infantryman's day. Seems to me the Earth would be the same, if I shoot a hole through it with my 40mm death ray, the Earth has a hole roughly 1.5" in it, a bummer if I drop my keys into it (too small to reach your arm in after them, and hard to see from a plane if I quickly fly to the other side of the planet) but hardly something the Earth is really going to notice.

Sooooo... you definately shouldn't target the Earth with an attack that has the Beam (-1/4) Limitation, and expect it to do anything. Hm... Beam Limitation. Any normal attack you use on the Earth, should by default, be considered a Beam attack. Right?

 

It seems to me, that the opposite of a Beam attack, is one with the AoE Advantage. The (+1 1/4) Megascale Advantage is on a planetary scale. The problem I have with this, however, is that it treats the Earth not as a target, but as an area in space. This is fine, and should work, but it's just not what I am looking for. The whole, "1 Hex of dirt equals 10 BODY," is cool, and helps if you go the AoE route.

 

For my money, it's all about the Transdimensional (planatary macro-scale) Advantage. Without it, you can't even really target the Earth... only objects that make up the Earth. I want to attack the Earth itself.

 

Okay... what's the deal with targeting large vehicles? Do you NEED to have Explosive or AoE Advantages to effect them... or is that just something that is thrown into the builds of most attacks used against large vehicles? I think I know the answer, but I just want to hear it from someone who really knows.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Actually the effect has nothing to do with energy' date=' the tip melted making the attack non-armor piercing therefore it no longer could penetrate the armor. Various AP rounds have had this problem since the beginning of armored combat, armor plate is hard and the design of the tip of the round can make all the differance between the round shattering on impact or glancing off the armor.[/quote']Actually, you just confirmed my point rather nicely: There's much more to damage than just how many megajoules of energy it's delivering downrange. Whether it be because the tip has melted, because armor plate is specifically designed to bounce such attacks, or some other factor, energy is only the beginning of damage calculations.

 

As for the overall argument I wouldn't say HERO is broken but it is slightly wonky, the exponential nature has some serious problems once you start getting past DC10 or so. I do like the idea that size is important as well as body, that makes alot of sense to me. That was a problem with anti-tank rifles and even some HEAT rounds, they could punch a hole in the armor but then what, it just made a small hole, maybe killed a crew person or damaged some piece of equipment but the tank for the most part was still free to run around the battlefield, a little draftier but still quite capable of ruining the infantryman's day. Seems to me the Earth would be the same, if I shoot a hole through it with my 40mm death ray, the Earth has a hole roughly 1.5" in it, a bummer if I drop my keys into it (too small to reach your arm in after them, and hard to see from a plane if I quickly fly to the other side of the planet) but hardly something the Earth is really going to notice.

Yes, this is an effect which there is no good way to simulate in HERO. I'm not certain that's a serious weakness in a role-playing system though. The damage charts in The Ultimate Vehicle do allow some effects fairly close to this in vehicles. In general, I would prefer to hand-wave this kind of stuff to create a more dramatic scenario. (Heck, I shot down our Champions team's first vehicle with an EMP wave even though the vehicle hadn't taken any actual physical damage from the nuclear explosion in the stratosphere- at least, not until it crashed.)

 

Great post, Toadmaster. I especially liked "...but the tank for the most part was still free to run around the battlefield, a little draftier but still quite capable of ruining the infantryman's day." Welcome back.

[Fox1]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Yes' date=' this is an effect which there is no good way to simulate in HERO.[/quote']

 

Actually HERO does this by default, it takes some real work to get modern AT weapons up to the damage levels they need to be to represent themselves.

 

The examples you were replying to were basically WWII, and only with the smaller or more undependable weapons even then.

 

 

 

I'm not certain that's a serious weakness in a role-playing system though.

 

It's not a significant one unless you want to do a lot of vehicles and/or planet killing. I don't do either using HERO, so the point is moot for me.

 

Even if I did, I have no problem tossing a limit on weapons to indicate they just blow little holes in things no matter what (beam and real weapon already do this).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hero is broken

 

It seems to me' date=' that the opposite of a Beam attack, is one with the AoE Advantage. The (+1 1/4) Megascale Advantage is on a planetary scale. [i']The problem I have with this, however, is that it treats the Earth not as a target, but as an area in space.[/i] This is fine, and should work, but it's just not what I am looking for. The whole, "1 Hex of dirt equals 10 BODY," is cool, and helps if you go the AoE route.

 

Seems to me Megascale is a good approach. Perhaps, rather than considering Earth to be in a different dimension, one merely considers it to have "desolid, only protects from damage, still affected by attacks with planetary-scale or greater Megascale". Not common enough, I would rule, for a PC, but a reasonable workaround for planets.

 

For my money' date=' it's all about the Transdimensional (planatary macro-scale) Advantage. Without it, you can't even really target the Earth... only objects that make up the Earth. I want to attack the Earth itself.[/quote']

 

I don't really like the Transdimensional approach. One reason is that it sets a precedent I dislike.

 

- Can I buy EDM to move into the "macro" scale, and now my EB affecvts the Earth as a whole? Well, sure - it's just another dimension, right?

 

- Having done so, I, like Earth, am now invulnerable to attacks lacking the appropriate Transdimensional advantage, right?

 

- So now I can purchase Transdimensional (+1/4) on all my attacks and blast back into Earth's "home dimension", right? Well, it certaonly follows logically...

 

So I get to be immune to all attacks that aren't transdimensional, and retaliate with a +1/4 on my attack powers. Compare this to Desolid (even if Only to Attacks), which requires a +2 on all my offensive powers, means Transdimensional has to be reasonably common and also leaves m,e exposed to mental powers by default.

 

Normally, this is mitigated at least somewhat by the need for a Transdimensional sens eto target attacks, but if we can see Earth plain as day, it follows that someone in the macrosopic dimension can see the other way just as easily.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Warp9:

 

I'm wondering of you've ever looked at the Mayfair Games DC Heroes. That was also on an exponential scale, where normals had stats of 2, and +1 represented a doubling. My dim recollection suggests that may be closer to your view of how the system shoud work. IIRC, stats came in sets of three. One of the stats was essentially a combination of defense and damage absorbtion capacity, which would effectively combine BOD (how much damage it takes to eliminate the target) with PD/ED (how hard it is to bring the target any closer to elimination).

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Warp9:

 

I'm wondering of you've ever looked at the Mayfair Games DC Heroes. That was also on an exponential scale, where normals had stats of 2, and +1 represented a doubling. My dim recollection suggests that may be closer to your view of how the system shoud work. IIRC, stats came in sets of three. One of the stats was essentially a combination of defense and damage absorbtion capacity, which would effectively combine BOD (how much damage it takes to eliminate the target) with PD/ED (how hard it is to bring the target any closer to elimination).

Yes, it was a very interesting game.

 

And in many ways it was closer to the direction that I like to see HERO go, at least on the exponential angle.

 

Although there were also a number of other things about it which were IMO inferior to HERO.

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

I agree with you on the problems of exponential mixing with linear damage systems. The Hero damage system may or may not be exponential' date=' but exponentially fails miserably in the "playability" category. That's why in general I prefer to use a strictly linear system. It's far easier to use and is far more intuitive to the average player and GM. Who wants to go through all the math you just did to figure out an impact? Everyone understand that a 20d6 attack does twice as much damage as a 10d6 one [i']in game effect[/i]. Human just don't think in terms of millions and billions of times more energy. If 1d6 is our baseline, then how many times more powerful is an 12d6 attack than a 10d6 one if figured exponentially?Does that agree with the effects within the game on a target? Logic shows that 12d6 is 20% more effective than 10d6 within the system, not 400%.

Exponential systems are less intuitive for most people than linear systems.

 

But they do have some advantages in dealing with big numbers, assuming that you want to deal with big numbers in your game.

 

And they actually simplify calculations in many ways.

 

The stuff I had to go through to do everything for the meteor impact was messy but most of that whould have had to been done for a linear system as well. If I hadn't had to figure the mass, things would have been much easier. If things were already in game stats, it would have been trivial.

 

For example the optional velocity damage chart works on an exponential scale. I will use that to show you how simple things can be.

 

Using the Optional Velocity Damage Chart, what is the damage of a Tank hitting a target at Mach 3?

 

A tank requires 55 STR to lift, so you get 11 DCs there, and from the Velocity Chart we can see that Mach 3 has a velocity factor of 17. The end damage is simply 11+17 or 28 DCs. And that result is as accurate as if you'd run the numbers through a KE formula.

 

A car being thrown at Mach 1 would be 6 DCs from weight (30 STR to lift the car) and a Velocity Factor of 14, for a total damage of (6 + 14) or 20 DCs.

 

That probably doesn't convince you that the exponential system is "fun and easy" but it does have a few advantages.

 

But IMO in the end the most important thing is consistency. If you want to go linear then stick with that, if you are going to do things exponentially then make sure that everything is done on that scale.

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Which is why I'd dump any notion of exponentional damage or BODY from HERO.

Do you also intend on getting rid of all the other exponential stuff from the system?

 

I'm not saying that you can't do it, but I am curious if that is your goal.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Yes, it was a very interesting game.

 

And in many ways it was closer to the direction that I like to see HERO go, at least on the exponential angle.

 

Although there were also a number of other things about it which were IMO inferior to HERO.

 

Skills, and the opposite of HERO....Gadgets that were too affordable for their in game utility.

 

Other than that it is a great system, and one that I am playing again. My wife gave up HERO as too hard, to game mechanic driven (Have you really seen the combat rules? Can you say Warhammer 3000k? I knew that you could.) and in general too much HERO for her to have fun with.

 

So we are switching to DC Heroes as of now for our Solo games.

 

Hawksmoor

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Are you really suggesting reducing it to such a predictive formula? Seems to defeat the way the rest of the game works vis-a-vis both absolutes and probabilities in combat.

Over a million shots any random factors would be pretty much factored out.

 

However, what I would actually do in most game situations is to use something like the Mental Powers Effect charts.

 

You'd roll your attack BODY and then compare that to the target's BODY + DEF and get a result.

 

Each step on the chart would represent an exponentially higher damage value than the level below it.

 

Below some value, the result would be "no damage." The fact that it did no damage is not to say that it actually didn't do anything but that the impact was so minor that it was only represents a "drop in the ocean."

 

The actual chart progression would look something like this:

 

No damage

Superificial Wound

Light Wound

Moderate Wound

Serious Wound

Mortal Wound

Instant Lethality

Dinintegrated

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Actually, on further reflection after posting, it occured that, if a single hit can inflict 1 BOD, then the next hit muct destroy the target if each BOD is double the difficulty of destruction.

 

By that logic, BOD 86 is double BOD 85, right? So the 1 BOD between 85 and 86 must equal the whole of the 85 previous BOD.

 

Under this model, there are only three possibilities:

 

- Attacks which cannot move the object closer to destroyed (nil BOD damage)

 

- Attacks which require two successes to destroy (anything capable of reducing the uninjured target's BOD by 1)

 

- Attacks which require one success to destroy (anything capable of reducing the uninjured target's BOD by more than 1)

I believe that you are thinking on the wrong end of the scale. . . .

 

Doing 1 BODY is not hard, no matter what the target is (assuming it has low defenses or course).

 

Doing 10 BODY is much harder.

 

Doing 20 BODY is One Million times as hard as doing 1 BODY.

 

Doing 30 BODY is One Billion times as hard as doing 1 BODY.

 

The difference is that, while most everyday objects would be destroyed long before 30 BODY, a large object would still have a long way to go.

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

When we detonate a 51d6 RKA in a game' date=' it creates damage only across 2m hexes.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure which part of the rules that you are getting this from, or does this statement only represent your idea of how things should work?

 

I can point to a number of places in the rules which contradict that statement.

[Kristopher]

Re: Hero is broken

 

I believe that you are thinking on the wrong end of the scale. . . .

 

Doing 1 BODY is not hard, no matter what the target is (assuming it has low defenses or course).

 

Doing 10 BODY is much harder.

 

Doing 20 BODY is One Million times as hard as doing 1 BODY.

 

Doing 30 BODY is One Billion times as hard as doing 1 BODY.

 

The difference is that, while most everyday objects would be destroyed long before 30 BODY, a large object would still have a long way to go.

 

And thus the problem with the exponential scale: 1 BODY != 1 BODY.

[Kristopher]

Re: Hero is broken

 

When we detonate a 51d6 RKA in a game' date=' it creates damage only across 2m hexes.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure which part of the rules that you are getting this from, or does this statement only represent your idea of how things should work?

 

I can point to a number of places in the rules which contradict that statement.

 

I think what Zornwill might be getting at is that that no matter how big an attack is in terms of raw damage dice, it still only hits the target, and doesn't cause any collateral damage, unless you attach an advantage to it.

[Kristopher]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Do you also intend on getting rid of all the other exponential stuff from the system?

 

I'm not saying that you can't do it, but I am curious if that is your goal.

 

Let's see, mechanically, what is explicitly exponential?

 

The lifting chart.

Size adjustment powers.

Scale and time.

 

And that's about it. BODY is only exponential on the chart for inanimate objects -- it's pretty much "you get what you want to pay for" for characters and vehicles.

 

In each of the examples above, it's more about trying to fit large things into playable scales and point totals, and they don't really affect the basic combat mechanics.

 

If you want BODY and Damage to be exponential, then are defenses also exponential? Is something with 11 PD twice as hard to hurt as something with 10 PD? Is STUN exponential? Is CON exponential, then?

 

Can of worms...

[Kristopher]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Over a million shots any random factors would be pretty much factored out.

 

However, what I would actually do in most game situations is to use something like the Mental Powers Effect charts.

 

You'd roll your attack BODY and then compare that to the target's BODY + DEF and get a result.

 

Each step on the chart would represent an exponentially higher damage value than the level below it.

 

Below some value, the result would be "no damage." The fact that it did no damage is not to say that it actually didn't do anything but that the impact was so minor that it was only represents a "drop in the ocean."

 

The actual chart progression would look something like this:

 

No damage

Superificial Wound

Light Wound

Moderate Wound

Serious Wound

Mortal Wound

Instant Lethality

Dinintegrated

 

Ugh, no. No charts, no levels, no "wounds", none of that crap.

 

If you want that kind of thing, there are other game systems. Leave it out of HERO.

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Let's see, mechanically, what is explicitly exponential?

 

The lifting chart.

Size adjustment powers.

Scale and time.

 

And that's about it. BODY is only exponential on the chart for inanimate objects -- it's pretty much "you get what you want to pay for" for characters and vehicles.

 

In each of the examples above, it's more about trying to fit large things into playable scales and point totals, and they don't really affect the basic combat mechanics.

So what happens if my 60 STR character picks up a 6 foot X 6 foot X 6 foot cube made of iron and drops it on somebody? (that would be 216 cubic feet of iron, for a weight of about 50 tons)

 

If you keep the lifting chart, that kind of thing could easily happen.

 

Assuming that damage in linear, and assuming that having a 100 kg block of iron dropped on you would be 2d6 damage, then the block of iron which is 500 times as heavy should do 1000d6 damage.

 

Is that what you were looking for?

 

 

 

If you want BODY and Damage to be exponential, then are defenses also exponential? Is something with 11 PD twice as hard to hurt as something with 10 PD? Is STUN exponential? Is CON exponential, then?

 

Can of worms...

Yes, if you are going to do things in an exponential manner, then all the elements directly relating to combat should also be exponential.

[cutsleeve]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Me bites this thread on the neck and sucks out its blood. Thus making it into another vampire thread. It shall live forever feeding off of others and will never die. If a brave person should happen to stake it through the heart it will just rise again when someone else with a pint of fresh blood comes by and sprinkles it over the ashes.

 

Its Threadcula

 

^^^( ;; )^^^

[Warp9]

Re: Hero is broken

 

Ugh, no. No charts, no levels, no "wounds", none of that crap.

 

If you want that kind of thing, there are other game systems. Leave it out of HERO.

That is not so different from how Mental Powers currently work in HERO.

 

You compare an Effect result VS the EGO + Mental Def, and consult the chart to see the level of effect. Or do you think that should also be removed from HERO?