Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

[Jkeown]

I was thinking the other day, Orcs live close to nature, they're tribal, they're not a little savage. Nature is the ultimate savage.

 

So too, my ancestors, the Ancient Irish. My own family name is derived of Eogann, who appears in some tales.

 

Why not "template" the orcs to such tales. I think it fits, has anyone seen this done before, or done it themselves?

[War Cry]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

I was thinking the other day' date=' Orcs live close to nature, they're tribal, they're not a little savage. [i']Nature is the ultimate savage.[/i]

 

So too, my ancestors, the Ancient Irish. My own family name is derived of Eogann, who appears in some tales.

 

Why not "template" the orcs to such tales. I think it fits, has anyone seen this done before, or done it themselves?

 

Dear Lord, I really like this idea. I've used the Celtic slant for wood elves, but applying it to orks is just one awesome idea. The limed hair, paint, running around in battle naked/half-naked, and all the other "classic" trappings make a pretty good and kewl fit, IMO. I've lost all the links I used to write-up my wood elfs, but if you want to take a look at my wood elf/Celtic document, I'd be happy to send it to you.

 

Oh, and I am so stealing this for my current project.

[Frenchman]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Its a great idea - and it doesn't change orcs so much that they will seem wierd and unfamiliar.

 

'Culture Swapping' as I call it, is a great method for mixing it up, especially when creating fantasy settings.

 

For example, in the setting I'm currently working on I'm making the Orcs have a rather Drow-like society/empire (From the perspective of Forgotten Realms, especially R.A. Salvatore), the Dwarves feel chinese, and the Hobbits are pictish.

 

It can make an old, standard race which you or your players are getting tired of fresh and new again.

[tkdguy]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

They've done this to some extent in the Warhammer Fantasy Battles game for the goblins. For some strange reason, the Orks in the Dawn of War video game have a Cockney accent.

 

Edit: Here's the Wikipedia entry for the orcs in WFB.

[Curufea]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Most versions of orcs I've come across in roleplaying games tend to have shamans as well.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc

 

Similar words of distinct origin

 

The use of the word "orc" in any of its monstrous senses should not be confused with various other words that have a superficial resemblance, including Gaelic orc (a Goidelic form of Proto-Indo-European *porkos "young pig") and Norse ørkn meaning "seal" [2].

 

Kind of funny, considering the piggy features sometimes associated with orks in some settings.

 

Perhaps the Gaelic meaning of the word being confused w/ Tolkein's version of orcs and getting combined into a pig-snouted thug?

 

 

Anyway, a Gaelic version of orcs might focus on a swineish / boarish slant as kind of a linguistic nod to the variant etymology.

[tkdguy]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

I never cared for the porcine look for the AD&D orcs. I prefer the Rankin-Bass drawings for them. Of course, I saw the "Return of the King" cartoon before I started playing D&D.

 

I was working on a low fantasy campaign where I was going to loosely base Orcs on Mongols, making them nomads who often raided neighboring settlements.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc

 

 

 

Kind of funny, considering the piggy features sometimes associated with orks in some settings.

 

Perhaps the Gaelic meaning of the word being confused w/ Tolkein's version of orcs and getting combined into a pig-snouted thug?

 

 

Anyway, a Gaelic version of orcs might focus on a swineish / boarish slant as kind of a linguistic nod to the variant etymology.

 

Would totally work... The Formorians from Irish myth include "beast people" including boar faced men, IIRC, and depending on the version of the tale you read or hear. Boar monsters feature heavy in celtic myth anyway.

[Jkeown]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

So last night during what must be my 400th so Caleon game, I used the "new" orcs (or Zarku in the most common tongue of the setting). We're still in the Flashback-Story Telling-100 pt phase, I thought I could get away with something clever.

 

The orc's leader, a 125 pt druid, decided to "power tap" a standing stone, using his first phase to do so. While the other orcs charged, he cast an Aid, preparing to blast his foes.

 

Lead PC wizard hit him in the chest with Roonblast, knocking him silly, that was followed up by a calvary charge from the party's elf tracker, so he died from being ran over by a large, brown chicken.

 

My point is, until I give them a bit more color and Celt-inspired tactics, orcs will still be cannon fodder. I think I was concentrating more on Flavor and less on Substance as using orcs straight from the books leads to them getting chewed up pretty quickly by experienced players. The meaningful, showpeice encounter was a long drawn out affair that lead to a town being destroyed by a poorly-thought-out Roontangle spell.

[David Johnston]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

They've done this to some extent in the Warhammer Fantasy Battles game for the goblins. For some strange reason, the Orks in the Dawn of War video game have a Cockney accent.

 

 

It's not that strange. Tolkien wrote them as cockney. Tolkien was a pastoralist, and therefore his bad guys were fundamentally city boys who lived in hive-like caves or anachronistic industrial complexes.

[tkdguy]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

It's not that strange. Tolkien wrote them as cockney. Tolkien was a pastoralist' date=' and therefore his bad guys were fundamentally city boys who lived in hive like caves or anachronistic industrial complexes.[/quote']

Interesting. I never got that impression reading them. Of course, I didn't visit England until many years after I read the trilogy.

 

I considered the Hobbits more likely to have Cockney accents, since they seemed to fit the English better. Of course, having Roddy McDowell do the voice of Samwise in the Rankin-Bass cartoon helped cement that image.

 

Then again, it wouldn't be surprising if Tolkien envisioned all his characters speraking with various British accents. When I read anything, my mind usually imagines the characters speaking with California accents.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Then again' date=' it wouldn't be surprising if Tolkien envisioned all his characters speraking with various British accents. When I read anything, my mind usually imagines the characters speaking with California accents.[/quote']

Aragorn would so be the one to say, Duuuude

 

I never realized we had an accent here in California...I mean outside of the surfer scene.

[assault]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

I considered the Hobbits more likely to have Cockney accents' date=' since they seemed to fit the English better. [/quote']

 

Cockney accents are ultra-urban. The closest US equivalent might be "classic Brooklyn". (Incidentally, there is a difference between the "Cockney" and more general "London" accents.)

 

Hobbits would probably be better thought of as having a more rural English accent. I can't think of a suitable actor, though. Most likely someone from the north or far west of England. Liverpool/Manchester accents would probably do at a pinch, even though they are urban.

 

I know! Go see The Full Monty. Lots of good Yorkshire there. Yes, urban, but...

[Narratio]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Interesting. I never got that impression reading them. Of course, I didn't visit England until many years after I read the trilogy.

 

I considered the Hobbits more likely to have Cockney accents, since they seemed to fit the English better. Of course, having Roddy McDowell do the voice of Samwise in the Rankin-Bass cartoon helped cement that image.

 

Then again, it wouldn't be surprising if Tolkien envisioned all his characters speraking with various British accents. When I read anything, my mind usually imagines the characters speaking with California accents.

 

In the interviews he gave in the 60's (I've got a 33-1/3 vinyl of him speaking dwarvish...) He said the hobbits had a sort of Cornwall/Devon accent. Very much open countryside types. The Elven Lords were based on the Oxbridge accents that surrounded him. The Rangers, Lords of Rohan etc were a mix of Cheshire and Liecester while the dwarves were Lancashire/Yorkshire miners. The Orcs etc were based on London accents in 'The Hobbit' and then a more generic 'city slurred accent' for his other work.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Aragorn would so be the one to say, Duuuude

 

I never realized we had an accent here in California...I mean outside of the surfer scene.

 

California has a very neutral accent - which means it stands out pretty dang clearly everywhere else.

 

Celtic Orcs ... love the idea, consider it stolen.

[Curufea]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

I've always thought hobbits had rural English accents - but then, I've listened to the radio play

[tkdguy]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

I have the radio play on CD. I think I'll listen to them again.

[Curufea]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Sam's is the best.

 

I find it nicely ironic that the actor doing Frodo's voice is the one playing Bilbo in the movie (Ian Holm)

[Markdoc]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

It's not that strange. Tolkien wrote them as cockney. Tolkien was a pastoralist' date=' and therefore his bad guys were fundamentally city boys who lived in hive like caves or anachronistic industrial complexes.[/quote']

 

Actually, it's a Warhammer thing - the accent *isn't* cockey but generic lower-class "yoof" (1) speech. Basically, orcs and goblins in the warhammer universe talk like british football fans. Even their battle songs ("ere we go, ere we go, ere we go") are drawn from football culture.

 

This came in first from the WH40K universe, but has spread throughout their product line.

 

Why? According to the gamedesigners, because it's funny, really. No other reason.

 

cheers, Mark

 

(1) "Yoof" is of course orkish - or hoodie - for a young'un.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

California has a very neutral accent - which means it stands out pretty dang clearly everywhere else.

 

Celtic Orcs ... love the idea, consider it stolen.

 

Californian isnt so much a matter of ACCENT as it is INTONATION and SLANG. I mean, like TOTALLY dude; suprised you didnt KNOW that.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Yeah, there is nothing funnier than greenskinned brutish aliens from outer space talking in hard core Brittish footballer accents. Those guys at GW -- world class comedians to the last man.

 

I mean things like "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and "Red 'uns go fastah!" is just pure unmined comedy gold.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Californian isnt so much a matter of ACCENT as it is INTONATION and SLANG. I mean' date=' like TOTALLY dude; suprised you didnt KNOW that.[/quote']

 

I have to admit, WH40K Orc accent is pretty damn funny when you read through the color text.

 

 

I still say Aragorn should say 'Dude' or maybe Legolas should have while surfing his shield...

[Curufea]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Actually, considering that Aragorn is a noble descendant of the Numenoreans - I could imagine him with a Boston accent like Frasier Crane

[tkdguy]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

Actually' date=' considering that Aragorn is a noble descendant of the Numenoreans - I could imagine him with a Boston accent like Frasier Crane [/quote']

Maybe. But he's been living in the wild for a long time. Maybe Duncan MacLeod would be a better fit?

[Dale A. Ward]

Re: Orcs as Druidic/Celtic analogs?

 

I can like so totally see Galadriel being like from the Valley, ya know.