Daryl Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 So, a friend of mine asked me how to build Castle-ing in 5th edition: you know, one guy trades places with another. In this case, it's always the same two people, and the power resides in only one of the characters, and she wants to castle the other person up close and at (very) long distance, even when the target is unconscious. Just to level the playing field, say that she only wants one charge. On my first crack at it, it got pretty expensive. So, what's the cheapest legal way to build this? --d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Well it breaks one of your rules, both should have it 10" TPort, Trigger, one set trigger 10" TPort, Trigger, one set trigger, Megascale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 That would be the follower: Wife With Title In Her Own Right. On a more serious note: what about purchasing the summoning power for each castle and applying various lims (immovable focus, additional conditions, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 erm, I dont think he means literal castles D-Man. I think he means like the chess manuever where the Rook can change places with the king under certain circumstances. Id go with Teleport, must cross intervening space cross-linked (ie each power is linked to the other; see the Rules FAQ for Linked) to another Teleport UOO must cross space, only vs Specific Person (-2). That should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted June 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Well, I was hoping somebody would dive into the details and find a cheaper, yet still legal way to do this. Here's what I came up with. First, you get some base teleportation. Since she wants to teleport over short distances and long, she's got to buy it twice, once with Megascale, as JmOz suggested above. Put this in a multipower with each slot ultra'd, then put 1 charge on the base pool of the multipower, since the whole multi can only be used once. She can port to one Fixed Location. The description says explicitly that this can be a person. So that costs 1 extra point. Can only teleport to fixed locations is -1 or -1/2, and Fred says that if the character has _only_ fixed locations, not floating fixed, then it's worth -1. Each self port is is linked to the Teleport vs. her partner (-1/2, because "self port" is the lesser power). And what about that T-port vs Partner? She has to buy teleportation two more times (short distance and megascale), with the fixed location and charge limitation as in the self port. Plus, she has to buy Usable as Attack (+1), because she wants to do it even when the other character is unconscious (and maybe unwilling). Add on ranged (+1/2), and Linked to lesser power (-1/4). One question, though: how to "attack" that other partner, across megascale distances, and have a chance to hit? The two characters in question have mind link, so we could use Based on ECV. If there was no mind link, I suppose she could buy Mind Scan, only for that Mind. Are there other ways to do this? I suppose she could put all four of these teleports in one multipower, then apply 2 charges to the pool, and one charge to each slot. (Have to look up if that's legal in 5th ed.) Anyway, you see what I mean. It's pretty expensive. Anyone have any more ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Anyway, you see what I mean. It's pretty expensive. Anyone have any more ideas? Call it cheesy, but... Extra-Dimensional Movement to the "dimension" where the two parties have just exchanged places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 No wait, Transformation (target character into castleing character), with a Transformation Side Effect (castleing character into target character)... Seriously, your options are somewhat limited. What's the Special Effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 You want to use Trigger to set up the Teleport in advance, so that there's no "attack" required when it goes off. If the GM is feeling really generous, and considers part of the castle to be a disadvantage rather than a benefit, you could do one of the two Teleports as a Side Effect of the other. This might make sense or might be abusive, depending on the circumstances, but it would reduce the cost. Cost Power 1 Other Character: Teleportation: Fixed Location (1 Locations) 19 Castle: Multipower, 56-point reserve, all slots: (56 Active Points); Can Only Teleport to Fixed Locations (-1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1) 1u 1) Long-Range Castle: Teleportation 5", Trigger (+1/4), Megascale 100 km (scalable) (+1) (22 Active Points) 2u 2) Short-Range Castle: Teleportation 5", x256 Noncombat, Trigger (+1/4) (56 Active Points) Powers Cost: 23 Without this you've got to link a Usable As Attack Teleport, which is going to increase the cost. (If the partner must help reset the power, you could buy it Usable By Other which would reduce the cost.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 What Geoff said is a good way to do it, and is reasonable in limited circumstances, but to make sure it really is limited appropriately, you may want to add in a limitation that the "rook" character cannot be in danger, and the "king" character must be in danger. You might also want to either add Mind Link to the "king", so the "king" can communicate thier danger, allowing the "rook" to know when to "castle", or a limited Danger Sense for the "rook" designed to detect danger to the "king" rather than to themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Before this thread had come up, I'd built a power for the USPD that does something very similar to what's been asked for here. You'll find it under Teleportation Powers, with the name Trading Spaces. It's not particularly cheap (45 points for a 15" effect), but it works. It occurs to me that a villain could easily use this sort of power as an assassination tool: get within eyeshot of the target, jump off a building, and trade places. To do the exact of what's requested, I'd just use Teleportation, MegaScale (to whatever distance), Usable Simultaneously (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Only to Trade Places (-1), 1 Charge (-2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalGolem Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 The cheap way to do this... ...may not be legal. Buy t-port for the character with the power, and take the t-port for the other character as a side-effect limitation with active points equal to the base power. Twice the power, at half the price. I'm evil. DGv3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Re: The cheap way to do this... Originally posted by DigitalGolem ...may not be legal. Buy t-port for the character with the power, and take the t-port for the other character as a side-effect limitation with active points equal to the base power. Twice the power, at half the price. I'm evil. DGv3.0 I don't know. If it's the only way you can use the teleport, in many ways it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 To do the exact of what's requested, I'd just use Teleportation, MegaScale (to whatever distance), Usable Simultaneously (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Only to Trade Places (-1), 1 Charge (-2). What if the party without the Power doesn't want to be teleported? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Originally posted by Yamo What if the party without the Power doesn't want to be teleported? That's up to Daryl's friend's GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted July 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 What if the party without the Power doesn't want to be teleported? This is why it's got to be Usable as an attack -- the King may want to castle, but the rook may not, or the rook may be unconscious -- as in Bob's Trading Places power (thanks for pointing that out, Bob, I hadn't seen it). My only nit is that as a GM I don't think I'd allow Only to Trade Spaces to be the same limitation as T-Port's already established, and more limiting, Only to Fixed Location (-1). I don't think I'd allow DigitalGolem's idea of having one of the two T-Ports as Side Effect, because that's getting an advantage for a limitation's discount. Sometimes it'll be a huge advantage to switch places (Yikes! I'm surrounded by Mechanons! *castle*) The place where I'm choking, is -- how to assess an attack on a rook that may be out of sight and across the world? In Bob's Trading Spaces attack, the rook has to be LOS and within 15", so normal attack mods apply. It seems like it's a Fixed Target, Will Always Hit -- something usually not allowable in Hero. Do we have to make the Attack Port based on ECV, plus global Mindscan, only 1 Mind? Fabulously expensive. Any ideas on just the attack part of the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 I was under the impression this was a unique power between two characters. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Originally posted by Daryl The place where I'm choking, is -- how to assess an attack on a rook that may be out of sight and across the world? In Bob's Trading Spaces attack, the rook has to be LOS and within 15", so normal attack mods apply. An option that Steve deleted was that ability to trade with a specific individual, which I bought as a memorized location. That plus enough MegaScale to cover the entire globe, plus permission from the GM, should do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monster Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Out of left field... why not try doing this with Summon? Summon isn't tied to distance, unless you take a specific limitation for it. Ten a few points for a one-charge Teleport to put yourlsef in the summoned character's place, and 'el Bingo' you're golden. Actually, this makes an interesting idea for a magical demon-summoning power - "I'll take your place in Hell for a few minutes if you'll trash my enemies. Fun for you, cheap for me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Bingo! Specific individual Summon linked to MegaScale Teleport! w00t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted July 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Bingo! Specific individual Summon linked to MegaScale Teleport! Hmmm. I like that. I'll have to figure out the cost. --d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 If you don't mind a House Rule... Castling (+1): This Advantage allows a character to teleport by switching places with an existing object or person. The teleporter shows up with the same position, facing and velocity as the target (unless modified by another Adder). The target acquires the teleporter's old position, facing and velocity (unless modified by another Adder). The teleporter must be able to perceive his target to exchange unless it is one of his Fixed Locations. Difficult castling maneuvers should require a Power Skill roll. When the power is defined, it must have a reasonably common set of defenses which an unwilling target can prevent the castling from occuring. Edit: The teleporter must have an object to exchange with that is roughly simular to the teleporter's mass or the castling teleport fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Hmmm...Summon, Specific Being (+1); Only that one specific person (-2); Side Effect (you go where summoned being was; always happens; Extreme; -2); Cannot control summoned being (-2 based on Antagonistic + strong willed being 1 1/4); you can castle with a 350 point character for 10 points. So why did you want charges? Yes it's cheesy. Would I allow it in my campaign? Depends - if I think the effect they're trying to achieve is of limited value, I probably would. Especially if the transferee is a friend (can't use it to get out of danger without exposing the other to danger). I'm reminded of a villain who could castle. He was pretty unhappy when he tried it on Vanadium Man (never thought a +5/+5 fully invisible hardened force field usable against others would turn out to be so much fun...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 IDHBIFOM, but... Buy a Teleport for the main character with a floating location (farside of target, since a King and a Rook end up on either side of each other, not in each others spot, but I digress...) Buy a second teleport, usable as an attack, for the other character. That way, you try to force the character to teleport, if they resist, you end up beside them. if they fail to resist, they end up in your old location. Or you could buy teleport and try to (ahem) 'port right into the target. You could then take advantage of an 'unallowable' in the system. (Teleporting characters can't 'port into solid objects, and end up 'landing' in a hex adjacent to the target.) Of course, I could be way off on this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Re: If you don't mind a House Rule... Originally posted by Blue Jogger Castling (+1): This Advantage allows a character to teleport by switching places with an existing object or person. The teleporter shows up with the same position, facing and velocity as the target (unless modified by another Adder). The target acquires the teleporter's old position, facing and velocity (unless modified by another Adder). The teleporter must be able to perceive his target to exchange unless it is one of his Fixed Locations. Difficult castling maneuvers should require a Power Skill roll. When the power is defined, it must have a reasonably common set of defenses which an unwilling target can prevent the castling from occuring. Edit: The teleporter must have an object to exchange with that is roughly simular to the teleporter's mass or the castling teleport fails. This looks pretty decent, though with one fairly minor caveat: since I was able to build the ability for 45 points at 15", I'd call the basic Advantage (trading locations only) a +1/2, and the trading of facing and velocity an additional +1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 By any chance, did the idea for this power come from the DC sci-fi limited series Spanner's Galaxy? Space Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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