WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Well, working under the assumption that it's a superhuman registration act (if you've got powers, you register), rather than a superhero registration act, with the strictures indicated in the first post (which imply that it is set up almost as more of a draft than a registration act - you register, you are required to get training and work for the feds), the first thing most of them do is read the paper the next day regarding DuBey Industries legal eagles filing every injunction against enforcement of this law known to mankind.

 

Forget about due process issues. Forget about questions of this being mandatory making it unconstitutional or not. If those two factors are in place, then we're looking at a government mandated draft of every superhuman in the country. Further, it unfairly singles out mutants by requiring them all to sign up. That right there gives Void ammo to start his fight.

 

In the meantime, several of them actually would register. However, at the same time, they'd refuse orders to enforce it (even if the various injunctions were eventually dismissed), and actively work against those who are working to enforce it, particularly if they're doing so while it's illegal. If it actually did break down into "for" and "against" armed camps, most of them would join the 'against' group, despite the fact that they themselves have registered.

 

Yeah, that means that a lot of them will probably end up on the run, since now the feds know who they are and they're aiding and abetting felons, going bad, etc.

 

Void, the guy who first put his SID's resources into use against it, will continue the legal challenges even as he personally opposes it at every juncture and never registers. Dominic DuBey continues to speak out against it vocally (providing an Important Person on the "against" side to counter Harmon working for the "for" side).

 

Preferably, they'd all keep it working at the level of words and legal filings, rather than armed camps. It might go farther, but that's when things start to get ugly (though, on the plus side, odds are strongly against wholesale slaughter of one side by the other, unless everybody suddenly spends their XP on buying off their CvK's before this starts. )

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

With only passing info about the Civil War (other than it sucks) this is what the chracaters would do.

 

 

Blackcat - she would likely be leading the anti registration crowd, and with her being a master of tactics and all sort of martial arts, would do very well. She already has a public ID, and no actual superpowers, so it would be obvious that this is from ideal, not anything else.

Angelfire - she sees herself as a rockstar, not a superhero. She would try and ignore it, but if pressed, she'd go on the side of the anti - and then release a billion selling CD that would really mock and make look stupid the pro reg side, and all the money would go towards the anti side.

 

Ballistic - one of two results. He would stay and fight on the anit side, and he would likely go iron age fairly early; his attitude is that of an excop, and he is not against using lethal force when absolutly necessary. He would feel that this would be such a situation. He would also follow the police continium of force, so that he would only be killing people who use lethal force (at a super level) on him.

Although if he is still in his "funk" period - he'd just fly away to space for a few years until it all blows over.

 

Smokeater - Don't know. He can see the good of it, but would be very uncomfortable. He'd likely go anti but be somewhat uncomfortable.

 

Sift would be full on anti.

Terminal Velocity is a still somewhat naive young super, and would likely side with the pro side early on, until the violence escalated, and then would have lots of doubts (sort of like what Spider-man is going through, as I understand it).

 

Meeb - he wouldn't care personally, and just go along with whichever side the group he was with went. Which means full anti.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Ironically, there's a good chance I'll be running a similar plotline in one or two of my other campaigns eventually. That issue aside....

 

Does this apply to anybody with powers, as written in the Marvel-verse? Or anybody who chooses to use them as a hero? Affects the way some of them handle it.

 

Judging from some of the drafted supervillains, it applies to anyone who chooses to wear a costume. Even characters like the Jester, a completely normal guy using borrowed gadgets.

 

You need to register if you commit or fight crimes in tight pants, or, apparently, just like tight pants.

[Weldun]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

So, what, Spidey and Cap are now a part of the "fashion-police"?

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Actually, Spidey used to be, if I'm reading Wikipedia's summary of the arc correctly. Now he and Cap are part of the anti-fashion police.

 

Tony Stark and Thor? Now *they're* still making sure that only people who've jumped through the right hoops get to dress in spandex and strut around....

 

Next time, on Project Superhuman Runway, will Captain America manage to sneak the polka dots into Thor's next design, or will he end up taking Mjolnir sideways up a very tender orifice for trying?

[Metaphysician]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Not the real Thor. Tony had Reed make a clone of him, complete with energy weapon made to look like Mjolnir.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

So' date=' what, Spidey and Cap are now a part of the "fashion-police"?[/quote']

 

Actually, Spidey used to be, if I'm reading Wikipedia's summary of the arc correctly. Now he and Cap are part of the anti-fashion police.

 

Tony Stark and Thor? Now *they're* still making sure that only people who've jumped through the right hoops get to dress in spandex and strut around....

 

Next time, on Project Superhuman Runway, will Captain America manage to sneak the polka dots into Thor's next design, or will he end up taking Mjolnir sideways up a very tender orifice for trying?

 

Exactly. It's moronic.

[Stone]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Well I guess I should post an answer to my own WWYD:

 

I really don't follow the CU setting where the registeration act occured

 

Quantum - Already in a quasi-government position. Would publicly speak out against the act and contact the ACLU to help challenge the law. He would refuse to capture "meta's" who refused to register (except villians of course). If push came to shove he would join the resistance.

 

Stone - would refuse. "You want me? Come get me."

 

Spectre - I am beyond your laws. He would not register, nor would he join the resistance. He would try to take advantage of any distraction this provided to hunt down those who endanger the innocent.

[Enforcer84]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Enforcer would register. He would be a good soldier right up until he was told to go after heroes for not registering. Or right up until supervillains were used to fight "Anti-Registration Heroes"

Honestly, if things played out like they seem to in the comic series, he'd be Pro Reg for about 25 minutes tops.

[prodigyduck]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

All my heroes move to another country to show just how stupid the government is being. Let the government deal with the flood of villains that will suddenly have all the power, as the heroes are so busy fighting each other, that they cannot fight the true evil.

 

Secondly, I, as a player, leave the table and tell the GM that if he wants to run a de-consturctionist game setting, to do so with his -own- characters, and not with those that already have history and motivation.

[Enforcer84]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

You know it's fun to bash the Civil War storyline; but I do so with out knowledge of what the Registration is supposed to achieve.

 

Does anyone have Marvel's take on the Registration and what it means/does?

I mean aside from the Impetus (the explosion, apparently brought on by the New Warriors); what has the Law done? Is it merely an exercise in "Arrest the Heroes/Ignore the Villians"? What is "legal" what is "Illegal".

 

from what I have heard from those who dislike it is that the law is illogical, inconsistant, and unenforcable. I've also heard that it is so heavy handed in the moralizing that there really only is one side worth supporting. Which is too bad because this means that a large portion of Marvel Heroes have basically been turned into villains for the short run and that things would be difficult to fix...

 

So, could someone who has read the series fill me in?

Thanks.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

You know it's fun to bash the Civil War storyline; but I do so with out knowledge of what the Registration is supposed to achieve.

 

Does anyone have Marvel's take on the Registration and what it means/does?

I mean aside from the Impetus (the explosion, apparently brought on by the New Warriors); what has the Law done? Is it merely an exercise in "Arrest the Heroes/Ignore the Villians"? What is "legal" what is "Illegal".

 

from what I have heard from those who dislike it is that the law is illogical, inconsistant, and unenforcable. I've also heard that it is so heavy handed in the moralizing that there really only is one side worth supporting. Which is too bad because this means that a large portion of Marvel Heroes have basically been turned into villains for the short run and that things would be difficult to fix...

 

So, could someone who has read the series fill me in?

Thanks.

The heavy handedness in the moralizing is the biggest reason I don't like the storyline.

 

I personally am Pro-Registration, but the writers have written the Pro-Reg sided in such a bad light that they for all intents and purposes are undefensible.

 

I can think of several examples where they have made it impossible to defend the actions of the Pro-Reg side and where characters have acted completely and totally out of character. It is just impossible to not see the writing on the wall on which side you are supposed to be rooting for (not that that side is going to come out victorious in the end, at least as far as I've read it's still up in the air)

 

I also want to string the writers up for basically breaking up Reed and Sue's marriage. *grumble*

 

TB

[Enforcer84]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

The heavy handedness in the moralizing is the biggest reason I don't like the storyline.

 

I personally am Pro-Registration, but the writers have written the Pro-Reg sided in such a bad light that they for all intents and purposes are undefensible.

 

I can think of several examples where they have made it impossible to defend the actions of the Pro-Reg side and where characters have acted completely and totally out of character. It is just impossible to not see the writing on the wall on which side you are supposed to be rooting for (not that that side is going to come out victorious in the end, at least as far as I've read it's still up in the air)

 

I also want to string the writers up for basically breaking up Reed and Sue's marriage. *grumble*

 

TB

I remember you mentioning this earlier. I just couldn't remember who did it.

So; does the Registration itself make sense? I mean what is are the requirements of registration? What are the penalties. Are they really sending costumed heroes to the Negative Zone? Isn't that counter productive? No wonder Libertarians hate the government.

Oh and if I didn't already want to kick Millar in the nads, breaking up the FF would be reason enough to.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

The heavy handedness in the moralizing is the biggest reason I don't like the storyline.

 

I personally am Pro-Registration, but the writers have written the Pro-Reg sided in such a bad light that they for all intents and purposes are undefensible.

 

I can think of several examples where they have made it impossible to defend the actions of the Pro-Reg side and where characters have acted completely and totally out of character. It is just impossible to not see the writing on the wall on which side you are supposed to be rooting for (not that that side is going to come out victorious in the end, at least as far as I've read it's still up in the air)

 

That's the saddest thing about the whole arc, IMO. For something like this to work, the reader has to be able to perceive both sides of the issue, and have sympathy for the characters on both sides. The pro-registration side is so negatively painted that there's no sympathy for them.

 

About the only real defense is the Reed Richards extrapolations that continuing the present rate of superpowered activity growth, the human race will be wiped out inside of a generation or two. I could see that leading to a much more panicked reaction and clamping down on superhuman activity, but that factor isn't public knowledge, as I read the series.

 

From some of the backups in Front Line, I get the sense some of the writers, at least, think the whole series is a protest against war in general.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Not read CW's, not going to.

 

If this happened in a game I played ...... unless the GM talked to us before hand ..... stand up, pack my things and leave. No shouting, no acting out, just go home and play Video Games.

 

Now if this was worked out before hand.

 

Crossfire; mystic ninja/techno, would go to the underground so fast he's leave a sonic boom. He was in Interpol for years and knows Governments always mess things up.

 

Titan Mk 4; Cyborg Homage w/intergrated AI, register and then refuse to do as told. Go to jail and then fight the law within the system, they try to keep from losing temper and breaking out. If they tried to neturalize he's powers, then break out and join the resistance.

 

Badger; sane Wolverine, already on US run team, he'd go rouge and be anti-, reason ..... he don't think the government knows what the heck it is doing.

 

Traveler; time/space/dimension manipulator, one of two things. 1. leave for the next almost exact reality to this one and set up shop there or, 2. go farther into the shadows and start saving anyone with powers and getting them to safty, then use he's powers to fight this stupid law. He is over 10,000 yrs old and has seen this on countless Earth's, he has fought it every time.

 

Electric Blue; KOS-MOS from Xenosaga homage, not register, do what she is doing, living her life. Someone tries to stop her and her friends then she fights and if she has to ..... kills to stay free and protect others that won't register.

 

Bearcat; see Badger above, but he's reason's are that he knows that one of he's hunted's is behind this and will hunt him down and kill him as many times as needed to stop him.

 

Flame; Human Torch/Sunfire homage, sign up and then leave for Japan so he wouldn't have to inforce it.

 

Snowfall; Ice Man/Ice homage, sign up and then leave for Sweden so she wouldn't have to inforce it.

 

Codename: Dancer, gun kata master, already a government operative, would do he's job but if ordered to kill a super, he would not do so unless that super was a true threat to others.

 

Ca'Rom Holt; Male Dawnstar, alien - would not go to Earth and ingore the stupidity and shack head.

 

NightWarrior; Dare Devil/Spiderman homage hybrid, anti all the way.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

That's the saddest thing about the whole arc, IMO. For something like this to work, the reader has to be able to perceive both sides of the issue, and have sympathy for the characters on both sides. The pro-registration side is so negatively painted that there's no sympathy for them.

 

About the only real defense is the Reed Richards extrapolations that continuing the present rate of superpowered activity growth, the human race will be wiped out inside of a generation or two. I could see that leading to a much more panicked reaction and clamping down on superhuman activity, but that factor isn't public knowledge, as I read the series.

 

From some of the backups in Front Line, I get the sense some of the writers, at least, think the whole series is a protest against war in general.

If this is true the writers need to STFU and get their own comic company to use as their soap box instead of just pissing me off.

 

I don't want to read about their personal politics (which as expressed in the comics is both infantile in it's conception and completely lacking in the signs of nuanced thinking) I want to read about superheroes.

 

TB

[TheRavenIs]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Marvel's CW, from what I have read here and other places makes very little sence to me. As Teflon Billy and others, has said it makes snece to have Heroes registered. Making former Heroes suddenly act worse than Nazi's is really dumb.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Ok, back on topic. Actually the game world I am in right now has a system that trains Super's. The ID's are know to the Government and after being trained they can either become full time Heroes or go into the private sector.

 

Becoming a Hero after going to the School give the Character certain perks, access to crime sences, government law enformortment contacts, and modifed national police powers and insurance to help pay for damages.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

If this is true the writers need to STFU and get their own comic company to use as their soap box instead of just pissing me off.

 

I don't want to read about their personal politics (which as expressed in the comics is both infantile in it's conception and completely lacking in the signs of nuanced thinking) I want to read about superheroes.

 

TB

 

Amen.

[Beetle]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

I'd start a conversation with the GM about what a horrible idea he was inflicting on the campaign. Assuming the hypothetical GM still goes ahead with it:

 

Black Arrow - There's no way she would register. She'd keep doing the hero thing and if the heat got to be too much she'd drive the 20 miles to Canada and visit there for a while.

 

Darkshadow - He wouldn't register either, and he'd put a hurt on anybody who tried to make him. (Moon Knight/Batman clones don't register). If the law gets too close, he'd "retire" and start a new identity (rinse and repeat as needed)

 

Captain Atlas - Mr. Silver Age would be the first to register.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

 

I also want to string the writers up for basically breaking up Reed and Sue's marriage. *grumble*

 

TB

 

As I understand it, that event, along with killing one of Spidey's DNPCs were major plot points from the beginning. Joe Q hates happily married superheroes and is screwing up the two that Marvel has. Just like Didio went after the JLI.

 

*sigh*

[Stone]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

It should interesting to see how Marvel deals w/the fallout from this series. While I am sure the law will be overturned in the end, how are the heroes gonna relate to each other afterwards? Is anyone really gonna trust Ironman or Reed Richards after this? Even Spiderman is gonna have to work on getting back in the good graces of some that were against the law. Powerman or Falcon (can't remember which) called him a sell out. This series pretty much destroys Marvel's universe.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

You're assuming they're going to deal with it. I'm not sure I have that much faith in them....

[SKJAM!]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

Part of the problem with the Registration Act is that there is, in fact, no actual wording that any of the fans have seen. It's only ever been loosely described in the books, and those descriptions vary by writer.

 

As nearly as can be determined, you must register if you either have special powers or want to put on a costume and use a codename. (Most known mutants in the US don't have to formally register, as they're grandfathered in under the existing Mutant Registration legislation.) If you want to be a certified crimefighter, you must accept training from SHIELD. (Most existing Pro-Reg heroes were simply rubber-stamped due to their field experience.)

 

What is not clear is if the certified heroes can only work for SHIELD/the US government, how much control the agencies will have over the heroes' operations, and if people who don't want to work for the government can be coerced into doing so.

 

Added to this is the knowledge that in the Marvel U, both SHIELD and the US Government have been repeatedly infiltrated by bad guys who wouldn't hesitate to misuse the knowledge registration would hand them. So it's not surprising a lot of the heroes are anti-registration.

[Karmakaze]

Re: WWYD - Marvel's Civil War

 

I personally am Pro-Registration' date=' but the writers have written the Pro-Reg sided in such a bad light that they for all intents and purposes are undefensible.[/quote']

 

If it were a matter of "If you want to use violent means to curb criminal/villainous/hazardous activities, then you may not do it anonymously", my only real issue with Registration would be that, in that fictional universe, this is the same government that building giant genocidal robots (the Sentinel program) was a good idea.

 

So; does the Registration itself make sense?

 

It doesn't make sense in that the Registration Act would not have prevented the event that triggered it. It does make sense in that the general public feels threatened by metahuman activity and this has been presented to them as a solution.

 

I mean what is are the requirements of registration?

 

It varies a bit from book to book, but the requirements seem to be that anyone actively using metahuman abilities, fighting crime in a costumed persona, or both must (a) register with the government under their real name and ( operate (only) under government supervision and training. In some of the books, this can be avoided by simply hanging up the costume. In some, the government hit squad is hunting down anyone who was ever remotely active. In some, metahumans who register but refuse missions issued by the government (hunting down those who refused, for example) are issued the same punishment as those who do not register.

 

What are the penalties. Are they really sending costumed heroes to the Negative Zone? Isn't that counter productive?

 

The penalty is that, once brought in, the metahumans are incarcerated in a special prison in the Negative Zone, with special restraints for their power set, if necessary. There is no trial necessary for this incarceration, neither is there any appeal, nor any way to secure release. You get one chance to register, and once you refuse, you're locked up for life.