gewing Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I saw reports on that page about power and muzzle velocity comparisons' date=' but didn't see any report about accuracy. Have you used one of these? Do you know how the accuracy is?[/quote'] No, they should be able to be as accurate as most ARs, but... The only review I read was using iirc the .223 WSSM, and getting 1.5 MOA, or so. It should be pretty easy to get one to the classic one MOA, but... That also depends on the Ammunition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I still can't really get in on the whole AR rifle thing. I just don't dig 'em all that much. Dunno why' date=' since there seems to be a lot to recommend them, but between the direct impingement or the high dollar gas piston versions, I just don't get excited about them. Then again, I'm not really big on hanging all sorts of crud on rifles either... still, they do have a certain neat factor, but for some freakin' reason, they don't trip my trigger. That sounds interesting, though. I dunno. I'm more interested in a lever gun in .45-70 or something.[/quote'] Something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Something like this? That's funny, I was just looking at that... except for the fact that I dislike stainless, aesthetically, and the large loop lever I'm not so sure about... yeah, I like that rifle a lot. The XS Sight, a rail already on it, and the longer sight radius iron sights suit me pretty well otherwise. If they made the blued version the same way, I'd buy that in a new york minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games That's funny' date=' I was just looking at that... except for the fact that I dislike stainless, aesthetically, and the large loop lever I'm not so sure about... yeah, I like that rifle a lot. The XS Sight, a rail already on it, and the longer sight radius iron sights suit me pretty well otherwise. If they made the blued version the same way, I'd buy that in a new york minute.[/quote'] It IS possible to blue Stainless Steel, but it takes different chemicals than carbon steel. There are gunsmiths who do such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games It IS possible to blue Stainless Steel' date=' but it takes different chemicals than carbon steel. There are gunsmiths who do such...[/quote'] If I was going to get it finished, I'd probably just get it melonited or parkerized. The ideal here being that I could just buy it how I want it to start with rather than getting it gunsmithed to suit me afterwards. I won't pretend I have a great amount of experience with lever-guns, but I do like the idea of them, and the .45-70 seems common enough and heavy enough for my preferences without going into specialty ammunition, and with the availability of heavy-loaded ammunition allows for higher end use if necessary. I like relatively simple mechanical mechanisms (pump shotguns/rifles as another example) for their overall reliability (in my perception at least). The long top rail allows for more of a scout style mounting, which I think would suit me well, and the simple high visibility iron sites seem appropriate. In fact, this type of rifle sits better in my mind over an AR or AK or any of that. I see my needs more in the "in case the SHTF" scenarios rather than in case of war or some other craziness... and it suits zombie apocalypse scenarios well enough for me, though I'd probably prefer one of the pistol caliber versions for that sort of scenario. =) I'll have to see if any of my local shops keep these lever-guns in stock. Most seem to cater to the AR and AK crowd or the bolt-action guys. Besides, these days, all of these fighting guns seem to be hitting into the $1500+ categories, and I just don't have that much need for rifles in general, and certainly not for that kind of money. I'll pay that for pistols, oddly enough, but not for a rifle I can't even use around here. No good ranges for rifles, and the only one around only allows one round in long gun at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games If I was going to get it finished, I'd probably just get it melonited or parkerized. The ideal here being that I could just buy it how I want it to start with rather than getting it gunsmithed to suit me afterwards. I won't pretend I have a great amount of experience with lever-guns, but I do like the idea of them, and the .45-70 seems common enough and heavy enough for my preferences without going into specialty ammunition, and with the availability of heavy-loaded ammunition allows for higher end use if necessary. I like relatively simple mechanical mechanisms (pump shotguns/rifles as another example) for their overall reliability (in my perception at least). The long top rail allows for more of a scout style mounting, which I think would suit me well, and the simple high visibility iron sites seem appropriate. In fact, this type of rifle sits better in my mind over an AR or AK or any of that. I see my needs more in the "in case the SHTF" scenarios rather than in case of war or some other craziness... and it suits zombie apocalypse scenarios well enough for me, though I'd probably prefer one of the pistol caliber versions for that sort of scenario. =) I'll have to see if any of my local shops keep these lever-guns in stock. Most seem to cater to the AR and AK crowd or the bolt-action guys. Besides, these days, all of these fighting guns seem to be hitting into the $1500+ categories, and I just don't have that much need for rifles in general, and certainly not for that kind of money. I'll pay that for pistols, oddly enough, but not for a rifle I can't even use around here. No good ranges for rifles, and the only one around only allows one round in long gun at a time. WHile some experts suggest the .30-30 for a SHTF/Home defense/politically correct weapon, I kind of like the .44 magnum versions. IIRC they carry about 10 rds instead of 5, and the long barrels boost the velocities dramatically. IIRC a 180 gr .44 magnum bullet out of a carbine can reach 2000fps pretty easily. and a larger SLAP than a .30-30. NOt as good of penetration in tissue, maybe barriers, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games WHile some experts suggest the .30-30 for a SHTF/Home defense/politically correct weapon' date=' I kind of like the .44 magnum versions. IIRC they carry about 10 rds instead of 5, and the long barrels boost the velocities dramatically. IIRC a 180 gr .44 magnum bullet out of a carbine can reach 2000fps pretty easily. and a larger SLAP than a .30-30. NOt as good of penetration in tissue, maybe barriers, but...[/quote'] I would love a .44 magnum lever-gun. I can't seem to find one with a pistol grip, though, and the straight stocks tend to be difficult for me due to self-inflicted damage to my wrist that makes it sometimes painful to have to turn it that much for any extended amount of time. I find that standard stocks with the "pistol grip" curve to them are overall more comfortable for me. I'd likely use the same ammunition I use for my revolver, something in the 240 grain weight class, and call it a day. Marlin stopped making any of the pistol caliber lever-guns with the pistol grip, and I'm usually not a fan of guessing what the last owner did to some poor firearm before I got it. I had a bad experience or two with that. Luckily, I remained intact after discovering what they had done to them. I have no experience with the .30-30 and have read nothing to encourage me in that direction. If I could find one of the old Marlin 1894PGs in .44 mag that maybe just sat on someone's shelves for a time and was left untouched outside of maintenance, that would be great. I might pick up one of their .22 versions some day. Seems like they would be pretty useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I would love a .44 magnum lever-gun. I can't seem to find one with a pistol grip, though, and the straight stocks tend to be difficult for me due to self-inflicted damage to my wrist that makes it sometimes painful to have to turn it that much for any extended amount of time. I find that standard stocks with the "pistol grip" curve to them are overall more comfortable for me. I'd likely use the same ammunition I use for my revolver, something in the 240 grain weight class, and call it a day. Marlin stopped making any of the pistol caliber lever-guns with the pistol grip, and I'm usually not a fan of guessing what the last owner did to some poor firearm before I got it. I had a bad experience or two with that. Luckily, I remained intact after discovering what they had done to them. I have no experience with the .30-30 and have read nothing to encourage me in that direction. If I could find one of the old Marlin 1894PGs in .44 mag that maybe just sat on someone's shelves for a time and was left untouched outside of maintenance, that would be great. I might pick up one of their .22 versions some day. Seems like they would be pretty useful. You might look into the Rossi Puma lever actions. A friend loves his .45 LC (cuts cloverleafs at 50 yards or so and even fed the wadcutters he tried in it.) They even make a version in .454 Casull, so it is VERY strong. For a year or two I had as my home defense gun a Ruger Deerstalker semi-auto .44 magnum. at the increased velocity, the .240 should expand fast, and so not over penetrate too much... And if you REALLY decide you want some serious ammo for stopping invading aliens or resurrected dinosaurs, there are http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=1 and Click here to enlarge photo GARRETT'S 44 MAG DEFENDER HAMMERHEAD AMMO $100 / 50 CTGS 310-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST HAMMERHEAD AT 1020-FPS (4" revolver) RECOMMENDED FOR USE WITH S&W 329PD, S&W MOUNTAIN REVOLVER, AND TAURUS 44 MAGNUM TITANIUM REVOLVERS, AS WELL AS ALL STEEL 44 MAGNUM REVOLVERS EXCEPT FOR THE TAURUS TRACKER. THIS AMMO IS TOO LONG FOR USE IN LEVER-GUNS AND IS ONLY FOR USE IN REVOLVERS. ENERGY: (4" revolver 716 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: (4" revolver) 20; MEPLAT: .320"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: SAAMI compliant; Click Here to read more about the 44 MAG Defender Ammo Click here to enlarge photo GARRETT'S 44 MAG HAMMERHEAD AMMO $100 / 50 CTGS 31O-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST HAMMERHEAD AT 1325-FPS THIS 44 MAGNUM AMMUNITION IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN TC CONTENDERS AND ALL STEEL 44 MAGNUM REVOLVERS IN GOOD CONDITION EXCEPT FOR THE TAURUS TRACKER. ENERGY: 1200 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 25; MEPLAT: .320"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 38,000-CUP; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .239; TRAJECTORY: +2" @ 50-YDS; ZERO @ 100-YDS; -8" @ 150-YDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Guys, a rifle is an irresponsible choice for home defense, unless you live in a rural area with no near neighbors. Why? Because a rifle bullet will punch its way out of your house and into someone else's with enough energy left to be highly dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Guys' date=' a rifle is an irresponsible choice for home defense, unless you live in a rural area with no near neighbors. Why? Because a rifle bullet will punch its way out of your house and into someone else's with enough energy left to be highly dangerous.[/quote'] Firstly, anything you're planning on using in home defense is gonna punch through drywall all day long. Unless your home is made from logs or something, you're boned on penetration. Read The Box of Truth for dry-wall penetration of various rounds. I've personally watched light weight 9mm target FMJ rounds punch through several rooms before finally settling into one of the 2x4s in the last wall before it got outside... nevermind anything serious. Remember that one of the rules of gun safety is that you are responsible for whatever you shoot at and your eventual back-stop. There aren't any magic bullets that make you less responsible for all that. Secondly, this would not be a home defense gun using Hammerheads and .45-70 or anything of that sort. Sure, I suppose it could be used for that capacity, but it isn't the first intent. Its just a rifle, in general. It started with Gewing just bringing up an interesting new AR combo, and I started waxing a tangent about not really liking those rifles, which eventually lead us here. I've only been thinking about rifles because I've been interested in taking a rifleman's class, called the Appleseed Project, to gain some basic rifle proficiency and I didn't want to drop $1500-2000 on an AR style rifle (I'm picky). And as stated, I like the idea of a lever gun, and they just don't run all that high. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Is that a Marlin M1895, gewing? It sure looks like one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Yeah, its the Marlin 1895 SBL. I've since found out that the sights they use are just directly from XS sights, so I can go with the blue rifle and just add it later if I go with that format. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Marlin 1895. drool... I found a website for a company that makes custom bullets, mostly lathe turned copper hollowpoints and solids. One of the fun ones they have though, is made to the same dimensions as their .45-70 300gr copper hollowpoint. However, it is made out of ALUMINUM and weighs 100 grs. It would tend to slow down fast, but at the initial velocity you could generate... explosive is not the right description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Heh, you could call it the 50 yard zombie exploder. =) I have a hard eye on the 1895 GBL. Not sure about the big loop, but I figure a scout mount and/or that rail by XS might set it off nice. =) I do like blueing and laminate or highly figured stocks. [ATTACH=CONFIG]37222[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Firstly' date=' anything you're planning on using in home defense is gonna punch through drywall all day long.[/quote'] *puts the panzerfaust back in the box* "Danngit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games *puts the panzerfaust back in the box* "Danngit." just use a dummy round. It might still go through the wall, but at least it wouldn't take out the next building. It would probably go through the wall WITH them if you hit them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games just use a dummy round. It might still go through the wall, but at least it wouldn't take out the next building. It would probably go through the wall WITH them if you hit them... Sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games just use a dummy round. It might still go through the wall, but at least it wouldn't take out the next building. It would probably go through the wall WITH them if you hit them... gotta hook up a camera to capture the expression on the burglars face when he realizes that you're shooting at him with a frickin anti tank weapon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games gotta hook up a camera to capture the expression on the burglars face when he realizes that you're shooting at him with a frickin anti tank weapon I really want Gordon Freeman's Zero-Point Energy Weapon from Half Life 2. Simply pick the guy up and toss him out the window. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games That's funny' date=' I was just looking at that... except for the fact that I dislike stainless, aesthetically, and the large loop lever I'm not so sure about... yeah, I like that rifle a lot. The XS Sight, a rail already on it, and the longer sight radius iron sights suit me pretty well otherwise. If they made the blued version the same way, I'd buy that in a new york minute.[/quote'] Aesthetically I agree with you about the stainless vs blued thing, but I'm leaning towards stainless for my "apoc survival kit" weapons. All my choices are various manual actions that could be pressed into black powder service if it came to that, and if I'm contemplating long term durability firing BP, I'd prefer stainless for the extra corrosion resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Aesthetically I agree with you about the stainless vs blued thing' date=' but I'm leaning towards stainless for my "apoc survival kit" weapons. All my choices are various manual actions that could be pressed into black powder service if it came to that, and if I'm contemplating long term durability firing BP, I'd prefer stainless for the extra corrosion resistance.[/quote'] If you can put a few extra bucks aside, there is no real reason you could not have a stainless gun blued, but it would take a little research to find a smith who does that combo. And if that is the criteria, then the .45-70 will CERTAINLY fulfill that role. As would the .45 LC or the .44 Magnum, actually. an inexpensive option would be a sporterized SMLE. I have seen them locally for no more than $160. I already have TWO, so Can't justify another. The original load for the .303 was iirc a 220 grain lead bullet on top of 70 grs of Compressed black powder, generating about 1850 fps or so . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games gotta hook up a camera to capture the expression on the burglars face when he realizes that you're shooting at him with a frickin anti tank weapon [ATTACH=CONFIG]37223[/ATTACH] I really want Gordon Freeman's Zero-Point Energy Weapon from Half Life 2. Simply pick the guy up and toss him out the window. Problem solved. That would be awesome for just so many reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Aesthetically I agree with you about the stainless vs blued thing' date=' but I'm leaning towards stainless for my "apoc survival kit" weapons. All my choices are various manual actions that could be pressed into black powder service if it came to that, and if I'm contemplating long term durability firing BP, I'd prefer stainless for the extra corrosion resistance.[/quote'] Y'know, everyone says that, but stainless will rust as well. Too many issues with galling and frictional problems for my tastes, and I can't abide an ugly gun and rarely a shiny one. I have an odd taste for polished hardchrome in some pistols, though, but have yet to buy one. Still, that whole idea does make a certain sense, especially the black powder service. =) If you can put a few extra bucks aside' date=' there is no real reason you could not have a stainless gun blued, but it would take a little research to find a smith who does that combo.[/quote'] There's no reason to go to all that trouble when various surface finishes that are quite durable and decently attractive exist for stainless already. There's what... Ion Bond DLC, Melonite, Hard Hat, Roguard, etc. etc. Still, I find parkerizing and bluing to be durable enough and cheaper, wear nicely, and are easily fixed. I've payed for one pistol with Ion Bond DLC and the jury is still out. We'll see after I shoot it some more. And if that is the criteria, then the .45-70 will CERTAINLY fulfill that role. As would the .45 LC or the .44 Magnum, actually. an inexpensive option would be a sporterized SMLE. I have seen them locally for no more than $160. I already have TWO, so Can't justify another. The original load for the .303 was iirc a 220 grain lead bullet on top of 70 grs of Compressed black powder, generating about 1850 fps or so . Y'know, if its just for zombies or whatever, I'd just stick with a .22 LR or .22 Magnum and call it good. Plentiful, easy to shoot, that sort of thing. Really, a .22 LR covers a lot of ground and can be used for a whole lot of stuff if you're smart about it. If its the general post apoc... well... I'm with AmadanNaBriona on overall functional use, minus the stainless, unless perhaps coated with something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games [ATTACH=CONFIG]37223[/ATTACH] That would be awesome for just so many reasons. I've been making of list of things from HL2 to try and define in HERO. So Gravity Gun is one... the Portal Device from Portal is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I've been making of list of things from HL2 to try and define in HERO. So Gravity Gun is one... the Portal Device from Portal is another. Would love to see those write-ups when you're done. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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