Rant? Speed in Hero

[Mentor]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

BTW Mentor... 9 Characters?!? Thats a huge group. Grats on being able to handle so much. Combats must take hella long though.

 

We have nine players, of whom five are GMs at various times. I have semi retired my original PC, and four former players have moved away, so their PCs are retired. Average games involve six or seven players at most and yes combat does require some work, but we manage. Thanks, though.

[Mentor]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

[stir the pot]Doesn't Z'lf have a 15 STR? I'd call a stat of 15 or so as much "in the human average range" as a 3 SPD. [/stir the pot]

 

I think the difference is that the Super Category Standard is that a 4 to 7 Speed range is the norm, so a 3 is astonishingly slow compared to other Supers. On the other hand, having "only" a 15 STR, INT, EGO, PRE or 16 COM (or BOD, which I assume you left out intentionally) still falls well within the parameters of "normalcy" for Supers, as well as the parameters of "normal" for, well, normals.

 

It's really DEX, SPD and CON (and, by extension, STUN, REC and END) whose "Supers" range lacks any real overlap with "human normalcy" range, as they all tend to start at or above the NCM limit. PD and ED to some extent, but some Supers rely on powers like Force Fields and aren't that far off the human norm without those powers.

Maybe we have a different perspective. I consider Joe Average stats 8-10 with average heroic types 15-20 and 3-4 SPD. If the average street cop has a 10 STR, Z'lf is lifts twice as much as Officer Doe.

 

OTOH, we agree that while she is very high for normal as opposed to average;) human in stats, her STR is on the lower end for supers.

 

Imagine if Angel of the mutant wings, certainly one of the lamer super concepts, flies up to a teenage gang member and gets his but kicked because he is perceived to only have 10 STR and 3 SPD. Many Champions players assume that all Supers have higher than normal human stats in more than the primary one.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Maybe we have a different perspective. I consider Joe Average stats 8-10 with average heroic types 15-20 and 3-4 SPD. If the average street cop has a 10 STR' date=' Z'lf is lifts twice as much as Officer Doe.[/quote']

 

I agree (though I still see some Supers with 10 STR, BOD, INT, EGO, PRE and/or COM) in large part. It was your use of 3 SPD, rather than the normal 2, that pushed my "picky" button.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

True, though we aren't talking about people using alternate attack types here, or even discussing attacks and defenses. This discussion belongs elsewhere.

 

And again, we are in agreement. That is what I have been saying all along. Thanks again. I truely don't see what we are arguing about. It's not a flaw with the system, just with the published setting.

I think we're pretty much on the same page. My real point is that while this is at least titularly a thread about SPD and its (over)representation within the game system vis-à-vis character effectiveness, it really can't be divorced from those other factors in any meaningful discussion. In Hero everything is synergetic; no Characteristic or Power stands in isolation. What is a perfectly reasonable DEX for a martial artist may be grossly unbalancing for a character with the STR and defenses of a brick.

 

As for the published CU setting, on that issue we agree entirely - which is why our campaign has used a homegrown setting rather than the CU since its inception in 1992.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

[stir the pot]Doesn't Z'lf have a 15 STR? I'd call a stat of 15 or so as much "in the human average range" as a 3 SPD. [/stir the pot]

Certainly a STR 15 is technically within the "normal" range for humans, but I still consider Zl'f's STR 15 to be one of her superpowers. An ordinary woman her size in reality would have a STR in the 3 - 8 range; so Zl'f being twice as strong as an athletic man makes her extraordinarily strong - we're talking a woman who can easily do one-armed chinups and pushups and benchpress 4 or 5 times her own weight of 45 Kg.

 

Her STR, CON, BODY, INT, EGO, PRE, COM, PD, ED, REC, END and STUN all fall within HCM ranges. Most fall within the "competent" ranges listed on page 40 of 5ER.

[Greywind]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Actually "average" characters have base 8 stats. 10 is only the baseline for players and protagonists/antagonists of the players.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

 

And again. It is not a problem with the system, but the published setting that ignores its own guidelines for what is within the normal human range. Also, we have plenty of people that fall within Average Joe standards for most or all other characteristics, except Speed or Dex.

 

This highlights one of the things that has irritated me about some of the posts (and posters) in this thread. Many people make characters that basically fall within NCM for most areas, and then buy their Dex and Speed to ridiculously high levels in comparison. Which is perfectly fine if their *ahem munchkin* GM wants to allow it. Speed and Dex escalation is the first step in understanding and subsequently abusing Hero.

 

But to then claim with baldfaced innocence that they did NOT buy their Dex and Speeds up in that sort of M.E. (munchkin escalation) is laughable. I personally do not care if everyone else plays with 5-23, 6-26, or 9-38 as their average Speed-Dex. I started this thread as RANT about practices like this, but rants are not by nature intended to change anything. Just to vent some frustration about perceived injustices.

 

To those who claim that dropping everyone's Dex and Speed down to be in line with their other characteristics would be a bad idea cause then everyone would have more points to spend on defenses, here's a novel idea: the starting point totals are ALSO just a suggestion. Drop starting point totals by 20 points and you'll find that you can have a tighter, more efficient character with all their stats appropriate to their concept. And they won't be burning Stun as often cause they run out of End.

[casualplayer]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

It's not wrong if no one gets hurt and everyone had fun. At least that's what I said when her father caught me....

[Greywind]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Stats appropriate to concept is a judgement call that only the player and GM IN HIS OWN GAME can make.

[Force]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Huh? You can't see how playing in a standard Champions campaign would keep you from playing a character with more human level abilities? Have you not looked at the characters in the system books.

 

You want to play a character with human level abilities in a standard Champions campaign and yet you wonder why he "can't compete"? Of course I can see that. That wasn't my point. My point is wondering why you can't see your concept doesn't fit a standard Champions campaign. Obviously some concepts will work and some won't.

 

And it is not a preconceived notion that a person who has the CONCEPT of playing a perfectly normal teenager who happens to have a super power should have NORMAL stats. That is a Character Concept' date=' not a preconceived notion. But doing so would keep him from playing in the same field as other characters.[/quote']

 

Normal stats? In a champions campaign? You want someone running around with human pd and ed in a 10-12dc campaign?

 

Something is wrong with the character concept in the campaign you want to run.

 

You might think he should just go ahead and be outclassed' date=' but the point is that he shouldn't have to be outclassed to play a character like that.[/quote']

 

So what you are saying that all characters of various power levels should be viable in all campaigns? I don't buy that.

 

You can apply your reasoning about speed and dex to just about everything in champions.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

This highlights one of the things that has irritated me about some of the posts (and posters) in this thread. Many people make characters that basically fall within NCM for most areas' date=' and then buy their Dex and Speed to ridiculously high levels in comparison. Which is perfectly fine if their *ahem munchkin* GM wants to allow it. Speed and Dex escalation is the first step in understanding and subsequently abusing Hero.

 

But to then claim with baldfaced innocence that they did NOT buy their Dex and Speeds up in that sort of M.E. (munchkin escalation) is laughable. I personally do not care if everyone else plays with 5-23, 6-26, or 9-38 as their average Speed-Dex. I started this thread as RANT about practices like this, but rants are not by nature intended to change anything. Just to vent some frustration about perceived injustices.

 

To those who claim that dropping everyone's Dex and Speed down to be in line with their other characteristics would be a bad idea cause then everyone would have more points to spend on defenses, here's a novel idea: the starting point totals are ALSO just a suggestion. Drop starting point totals by 20 points and you'll find that you can have a tighter, more efficient character with all their stats appropriate to their concept. And they won't be burning Stun as often cause they run out of End.

 

I feel insulted.

 

Here's my current Champions character Characteristics:

 

STR: 15

DEX: 14

CON: 12

BODY: 12

INT: 28

EGO: 15

PRE: 10

COM: 18

SPD: 4

 

Now if you would please kindly STOP assuming anything about the games I play in, The game the GMs I play under have set up, and characteristic spreads in games I play in.

 

I personally think you're gaming experiences have taught you one way - you can't think outside that box and are the lesser gamer for it.

 

In short:

[Force]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Take two 10-point characters' date=' let one of them buy a point of SPD, let the other spend his 10 points in [i']any other way[/i], put those two in a fight, and the SPD 2 guys will lose every time, barring freaks of probability.

 

Anything taken to extremes can be skewed. I'll take 15 str and 8pd. Barring freaks of probability, you will beat on me forever and I will never catch you.

 

So does that make str and pd borked?

[Force]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Except everyone doesn't have a SPD 6. I am a co-GM in Trebuchet's campaign. The name team in the Midguard universe has diverse 2-SPD 4, 3-SPD 5, 3-SPD 6, and 1-SPD 9 character. No PCs in the game lack for playing time, value to the team, effectiveness in or out of combat. none of them have ever been too powerful either.

 

I will concede that nobody elected to have a "Joe Average" SPD of 2 or 3, but neither do they have a "Joe Average" STR, DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE, COM, PD, ED, REC, END, or STUN. None of them. So it seems that singling out only SPD for not being a default in the human average range is mistaken.

 

Preach on brother.

[Force]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Stats appropriate to concept is a judgement call that only the player and GM IN HIS OWN GAME can make.

 

Hallelujah!!!!

 

Can I get an AMEN brother!!!

[JmOz]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

This highlights one of the things that has irritated me about some of the posts (and posters) in this thread. Many people make characters that basically fall within NCM for most areas' date=' and then buy their Dex and Speed to ridiculously high levels in comparison. Which is perfectly fine if their *ahem munchkin* GM wants to allow it. Speed and Dex escalation is the first step in understanding and subsequently abusing Hero.

 

But to then claim with baldfaced innocence that they did NOT buy their Dex and Speeds up in that sort of M.E. (munchkin escalation) is laughable. I personally do not care if everyone else plays with 5-23, 6-26, or 9-38 as their average Speed-Dex. I started this thread as RANT about practices like this, but rants are not by nature intended to change anything. Just to vent some frustration about perceived injustices.

 

To those who claim that dropping everyone's Dex and Speed down to be in line with their other characteristics would be a bad idea cause then everyone would have more points to spend on defenses, here's a novel idea: the starting point totals are ALSO just a suggestion. Drop starting point totals by 20 points and you'll find that you can have a tighter, more efficient character with all their stats appropriate to their concept. And they won't be burning Stun as often cause they run out of End.

 

 

I had this whole post ready to blast you into the stone age about how you have to realise what the genre includes, how super heroes tend to go above and beyond in all catagories, to the point that Jimmy Olsen can break into a top secret, goverment military base with no apparent commando training. Then it went on to explain to you that the whole concept of "Dex/speed escalation" is a myth, pointing out characters from 2nd edition and Enemies I who are still in the normal zone for martial artists (For that matter mongoose is probably to fast these days).

 

But I decided to instead suggest that you do not insult games (with the munchkin GM comments) that you are not part of, for one thing it makes it look like you don't understand that various power levels can be modeled, the current CU is trying to walk a line of late bronze age comics, in those comics characters do tend to do stuff well beyond what there origin would suggest is possible. I would also recomend you pick up Gold Rush Games City of San Angelous, IIRC it is more at the speed of what you are looking for, but I could be wrong, it has been a while sense I checked it.

[JmOz]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Anything taken to extremes can be skewed. I'll take 15 str and 8pd. Barring freaks of probability, you will beat on me forever and I will never catch you.

 

So does that make str and pd borked?

 

Actualy...Your more likely to eventualy hit him than he is to ever do significalnt damage

 

Now me, on 10 points

 

5 points of Str

1 point of Dex (NFC)

3 points of PD

 

I get higher ocv, higher dcv, good damage, and enough PD to make a difference

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

 

I personally think you're gaming experiences have taught you one way - you can't think outside that box and are the lesser gamer for it.

 

Damn, I know enough about debate to know that the first one to slap a narrowminded tag on the other guy usually wins.

 

Well uh, I think you are gaming experiences have taught you one way too!

[Markdoc]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Take two 10-point characters' date=' let one of them buy a point of SPD, let the other spend his 10 points in [i']any other way[/i], put those two in a fight, and the SPD 2 guys will lose every time, barring freaks of probability.

 

Unless he buys combat levels. Or an "excellent defence" fighting feat (PD Force wall, with RSR). Or... in fact, there's multiple ways in which the SPD 2 guy can triumph, or at least have fighting chance. And as you increase the points characters are built on, the significance of that extra action becomes less

 

Having said that, SPD is an excellent buy. There's few things as cost efficient as SPD. Indeed, in all my many years of running heroic level games, it's been very rare for players not to buy their SPD up (though in the current FH game we are more than a year and 40+ XP into the campaign and one of the starting PCs is still SPD2, 2 are SPD4 and 3 are SPD3, so we pretty much cover the human range).

 

cheers, Mark

[Sir Ofeelya]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

(though in the current FH game we are more than a year and 40+ XP into the campaign and one of the starting PCs is still SPD2, 2 are SPD4 and 3 are SPD3, so we pretty much cover the human range).

 

cheers, Mark

 

The same goes for my games. Most players are SPD3, with two out of six being SPD 4. When you use the random phase method (rolling a d6 to determine what SPDs act) the difference in SPDs is not that great. In our last major combat I rolled six 1s in a row when determing which SPDs could act - so everyone went (PCs and all NPCs, everyone got post-12 recoveries so no-one got tired from END loss and I had a crap load of number crunchign to do.)

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

I hinted at this in my post many pages back' date=' but my biggest problem with SPD is that the quantum of SPD is much too large at small values. As things are, there are no small differences in reaction time in exactly the regime where such [u']small[/u] differences ought to matter, down in the SPD 2 to 4 range. IMO in a superhero campaign, where reality is "rubber" and arbitrarily fast reaction times are part of the genre, this doesn't matter so much; where it matters is in the low-powered end, where the heroes aren't supposed to be separated from the normals so much, and a point of SPD works out to be more or less equivalent to personal invincibility. Take two 10-point characters, let one of them buy a point of SPD, let the other spend his 10 points in any other way, put those two in a fight, and the SPD 2 guys will lose every time, barring freaks of probability.

 

One way to work some more granularity into it would be to rework the SPD chart so that it works on half-phases. You'd have to keep track of attacks, so you don't have a SPD 2 guy standing still and getting four attacks per turn, though I don't think I'd necessarily have a problem with one extra attack per turn for characters who aren't moving around in a normals-only game.

 

However, I will say that a 10 point character who puts all his points into PD will be able to beat the 10 point 3 SPD guy. He would be nigh-invulnerable.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

Damn, I know enough about debate to know that the first one to slap a narrowminded tag on the other guy usually wins.

 

Well uh, I think you are gaming experiences have taught you one way too!

 

Heh. don't type annoyed I guess is my lesson. Or at least proof read. I hate that mistake.

 

See - I don't find your benchmarks invalid. In fact, I find them just fine for a good many games out there.

 

What I don't find valid about your rant is 1) The way you seemingly treated the newbie. 2) that I get the impression you believe your benchmark list is valid for all games, which it is not. 3) That there is some kind of Dex/SPD inflation when it's been repeatedly shown there isn't.

 

Your rant implied that the benchmark list you used was The List for all games you play in, that it Must Be Followed Because That's Exactly All Speed Means, and that anyone who breaks mold Is A Munchkin.

 

The idea that we're munchkin's for having a different point of view than you is what really gets me, and is why I believe you game inside a narrowly defined box and don't step outside of it.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

This highlights one of the things that has irritated me about some of the posts (and posters) in this thread. Many people make characters that basically fall within NCM for most areas' date=' and then buy their Dex and Speed to ridiculously high levels in comparison. Which is perfectly fine if their *ahem munchkin* GM wants to allow it. Speed and Dex escalation is the first step in understanding and subsequently abusing Hero.

 

But to then claim with baldfaced innocence that they did NOT buy their Dex and Speeds up in that sort of M.E. (munchkin escalation) is laughable. I personally do not care if everyone else plays with 5-23, 6-26, or 9-38 as their average Speed-Dex. I started this thread as RANT about practices like this, but rants are not by nature intended to change anything. Just to vent some frustration about perceived injustices.

 

To those who claim that dropping everyone's Dex and Speed down to be in line with their other characteristics would be a bad idea cause then everyone would have more points to spend on defenses, here's a novel idea: the starting point totals are ALSO just a suggestion. Drop starting point totals by 20 points and you'll find that you can have a tighter, more efficient character with all their stats appropriate to their concept. And they won't be burning Stun as often cause they run out of End.

I thought we were coming to a general concensus until you posted this. Now I find myself wondering if you're just trolling.

 

Was it really necessary to be deliberately insulting to myself and other players who have high DEX/SPD characters? Can't you even recognize the validity of character concept, or is a high DEX and SPD simply prima facie evidence of munchkinism in your narrowminded vision of a gameworld? Why don't you see artful dodger as being as valid a character concept as brick? Why aren't you railing against supposed munchkins who buy their CON and STUN up along with their STR instead of leaving those numbers at their base levels?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

What I don't find valid about your rant is 1) The way you seemingly treated the newbie. 2) that I get the impression you believe your benchmark list is valid for all games' date=' which it is not. 3) That there is some kind of Dex/SPD inflation when it's been repeatedly shown there isn't.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure what a better term than "inflation" would be. Inflation implies an ongoing rising of the numbers. DEX and SPD aren't rising on an ongoing basis. They started out, in 1e, with Supers being well above the :"human norm " (which was 10 at that time and later fell to 8 for primary stats). They have stayed that way.

 

I think that the game could work just as well if we dropped DEX by 9 and SPD by 2 across the board. It wouldn't be "better" or "worse". It would be "different".

 

But I do feel lower Supers DEX and SPD (but more DEX than SPD) would more accurately represent many comic book characters, who have normal human bodies and skills, but also have super powers.

 

That said, I would still anticipate that Supers would have a range from extremely rare "below human norm" stats (DEX 1 - 5; SPD 1-2) to the rare "normal human stats" (DEX 8, SPD 2) to an uncommon "just above normal human" (DEX 11; SPD 3) to a more common "above average human" (DEX 13 - 18; SPD 3-4) to a less common "pushing the normal human envelope" (DEX 18-21; SPD 4) to the rarer "superhuman DEX/SPD" (DEX 23 - 26; SPD 4-5) to the "WOW! Superhuman (DEX 27 - 33; SPD 6, very rarely higher). In such a game, Z'lf would probably have a DEX of 33 - 35 (8 to 10 points lower than now) and a SPD 7. And she would still be, by far, the fastest and most agile PC in the game, and used as the benchmark for the top end of these stats.

 

Your rant implied that the benchmark list you used was The List for all games you play in, that it Must Be Followed Because That's Exactly All Speed Means, and that anyone who breaks mold Is A Munchkin.

 

The idea that we're munchkin's for having a different point of view than you is what really gets me, and is why I believe you game inside a narrowly defined box and don't step outside of it.

 

–verb (used without object) 1. to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for hours.

–verb (used with object) 2. to utter or declaim in a ranting manner.

–noun 3. ranting, extravagant, or violent declamation.

4. a ranting utterance.

 

intransitive verb

1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner

2 : to scold vehemently

transitive verb : to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion

 

Not exactly flattering, and implies a less than cogent argument. I'd say it's a proper rant. Other than that, GA's comments are dead on. "Higher power levels across the board" is not "munchkin". "Higher power levels for me so I'm clearly superior and unchallengable" is munchkin. No campaign norm for DEX and SPD (or anything else, for that matter) is munchkin. A DEX well above the campaign norm might be munchkin, or might well balance out with other character traits. DEX, SPD, CV, Damage Classes, versatility, movement and defenses all at the top end of the campaign norm may well be munchkin.

 

It's tough to judge anyone's game without actually playing in it.

 

In isolation, I'd expect a 43 DEX, 9 SPD to commonly be unbalancingly high. Having seen Z'lf's character sheet, I would not classify the character as a whole to be unbalancing. Such a character will require the GM take the character's specific abilities into account when designing challenging scenarios.

 

That's true of virtually all characters, unless, I suppose, you want a game that says "Everyone has OCV 11-12, DCV 11-12, Defenses of 20-25, 10-12 resistant, and 12 DC's, with no exotic attacks or defenses allowed". That will be very balanced (although someone will come up with an unbalanced character if they work at it). It will also feature cookie cutter characters who all play very much alike. Not a great sunylation of the genre.

 

Was it really necessary to be deliberately insulting to myself and other players who have high DEX/SPD characters? Can't you even recognize the validity of character concept' date=' or is a high DEX and SPD simply [i']prima facie[/i] evidence of munchkinism in your narrowminded vision of a gameworld? Why don't you see artful dodger as being as valid a character concept as brick? Why aren't you railing against supposed munchkins who buy their CON and STUN up along with their STR instead of leaving those numbers at their base levels?

 

If anything, CON is more out of line than STR. Find a Super with a CON 20 or less. They're very scarce. Virtually every Super has a 23+ CON, above NCM. Again, this could be scaled back, but it would be tougher, even, than scaling back DEX, due to the Stunning rules.

 

To some extent, I would suggest that Supers having higher levels of DEX, SPD, CON, and even STR than the general populace makes sense. If you're unhealthy and/or a klutz, is "Super Person" a wise career choice? Even if you started out behind the curve, the level and frequency of exertion required as a Super is bound to pull your CON and STR up, assuming you survive. The frequent exposure to combat is bound to hone your reflexes and reaction time. So, even if they don't start well above the average, Supers are likely to end up beyond the human norm.

 

The only uncertainty is how far beyond the human norm that level will end up. That level, for standard Supers, was basically set in 1e Champions and has never changed. And, if Hero had stayed simply a Supers game and never introduced the concept of "normal characteristics", the issue would probably never have come up. If it had started as a generic system, then it would have had a benchmark for "normal" at the start, and Supers likely would have included some "normal stats with superpowers" characters as a baseline.

 

That's not what happened, though. Hero evolved and, by the time Danger International was created, and the concept of "Normal Characteristics" introduced, we already had a huge spread of stats in our Supers, and it was too late to bring them into "normal characteristics" without completely revising everything that had gone before, and making the existing supplements incompatible with the "new stat norms".

[archermoo]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

As a moderator I would appreciate it if people would back off the personal insults.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

 

I apologize to anyone who finds the term 'munchkin' offensive. I consider it to indicate a certain state in roleplaying when players are tweaking their cha's for maximum efficiency regardless of concept, and as such not inherently good or bad. I think that Hero games attracts such players, and that everyone here by nature falls into that category, as the constant tweaking of guys, the shaving of a point here and a point there is the essence of munchkinhood.

 

Who shall guard the guardians? Who but a munchkin understands and knows how to curtail the impulse to warp and twist a character till the original idea is long since gone and all that remains is a highly tweaked character sheet filled with stats ending in 3,5, and 0 and miscellaneous and obscure 1/4 limitations spread across the page?

 

I tend to think that it's vulnerability to munchkinnery is one of the prime things that attracted each of us to Hero over other games. If there is anyone here who hasn't felt a certain guilty thrill over realizing that due to the limitations on a power he can slip 2 more AP into it without affecting it's real cost stand up. Stand up and raise your hand. Then do a little spin and lift one leg, and shout 'Ah oo-Ga!'

 

I'm not saying that this is true of all players, but I think the vast majority of people on these forums fit nicely into this category. We are aware of the pitfalls that befall the lesser munchkin, and so as self appointed watchdogs (often rabid) we try to protect them from themselves. Whether they want us to or not.

 

In partial reply to a couple of recent posts I'm including a snippet from my original post.

 

I was helping someone make a character for the Champions campaign I'm starting and I had what seemed like my millionth discussion about this apparently controversial topic.

 

Me: Speed 6 huh? That seems high. What's your character origin again?

 

Player: I'm a scientist that got hit by a bolt of lightning.

 

Me: And you've done a lot of fighting in your life? You realize that Speed is basically a combat stat.

 

Player: Well, 6 Speed is easy to keep track of.

 

Me:

 

This was not a new player, and I don't have any idea where that idea came from. It's a person that I played Champions with 20 years ago. I went to his wedding, I've babysat his kid, and I've even (the true test of friendship) helped him move. And except for the time when his original character hadn't earned enough xp to buy his Speed up from 5, he's always played a 6 speed guy with varying degrees of justification.

 

As far as an 'artful dodger' type of character, I don't have any problems with that as a character idea. I tend to be very attentive to the execution of that idea though, as in my experience it's the favorite character concept of the munchkin. It doesn't inherently mean that you are a munchkin, unless you're posting here:).

 

It might also be worth noting that I didn't object to the character having a Speed 6. My objection was to his REASON for it.

 

No, I haven't changed my mind about a scientist hit by lightning having justification for 6 Speed. His nerve impulses traveled at the speed of ions traveling through a semi-permeable membrane before, and the most that his concept justifies IMO is a 2 Speed bump to 4.

 

As I said, I apologize if I offended anyone by referring to them as a munchkin. I'm sorry that they're so thinskinned and I suggest they buy a point of Mental Defense.

 

It's good vs. NND's too.