Forth wall perception?

[Crippledone]

A player who likes deadpool really wants to have fourth wall. But despite our collective best efforts we are at a loss for any advantage of knowing your in a role playing game. any thoughts?

[Susano]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Hmmm... from what blessed little I know about Deadpool, I'd say let him metagame. In other words, he gets to look at his character sheet and know exactly how hurt he is, bluff other guys with snide comments about their character sheets and/or point totals, and comments on the sound effects of various powers ("'Wumf'? What sort of attack goes 'wumf'?") You could even have him accuse characters of being written and/or drawn by various comic personalities.

[Kirby]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

A player who likes deadpool really wants to have fourth wall. But despite our collective best efforts we are at a loss for any advantage of knowing your in a role playing game. any thoughts?

Is it "fourth" (4th) or "forth" (as in "come forth and be counted")?

 

Anyway, I'm not familiar with it, but from Susano's description of what it does, I'd say have him buy "Detect" with the "Discriminatory" and "Analyze" adders, possibly the "Perceive into a single dimension" as well.

 

For those of us not familiar with Deadpool, what exactly does this power/ability/talent do?

[Susano]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Is it "fourth" (4th) or "forth" (as in "come forth and be counted")?

 

Anyway, I'm not familiar with it, but from Susano's description of what it does, I'd say have him buy "Detect" with the "Discriminatory" and "Analyze" adders, possibly the "Perceive into a single dimension" as well.

 

For those of us not familiar with Deadpool, what exactly does this power/ability/talent do?

 

Based on certain comic panels I've seen, he once asks if he still thinks in little yellow thought balloons (Oh, I do! I missed you so!). Loki told him the secret of the universe is "There's a man with a typewriter..." And... I think he's made comments about "Didn't we take you down last issue?" or some such. She Hulk did a lot more of breaking the 4th wall in her comic (when Byrne was writing it).

[OzMike]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

I've been in a game with an NPC that the GM and I cooked up who could do this... we did it as Clairsentience into another dimension...

 

Under current rules I'd just apply the Transdimensional advantage to normal sight and normal hearing or go with the same thing above if you want him to be aware of what the players say OOC and the ability to 'see' them.

 

It was lots of fun - the character even had a pseudo-religious philosphy about The Players, and in some ways was omniscient because a player would say something like "I go to the warehouse" and then the NPC would show up there because he heard the OOC directions.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Personally I wouldn't bother to give the guy anything. In a typical table top game Everybody breaks the walls sometimes. It's amusing and fun. But as a repeatable schtick it would probably get old fast and the character would almost certainly overdo it.

 

Plus, what's the point? Does the character want to get Disad points for it, does he want to pay points for special abilities, or does he just like the idea of being disruptive? I really don't have any idea what other effects could happen.

[Steve]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Actually, another approach might be to borrow and modify Foxbat's Psych Limitation "Thinks He's In A Comic Book" to "Thinks He's In An RPG." The character can make comments appropriate to what's going on at the table, but he's basically a nutcake.

 

Actually, having such a character meet Foxbat could result in an interesting bit of roleplaying dialog.

[Clonus]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

A player who likes deadpool really wants to have fourth wall. But despite our collective best efforts we are at a loss for any advantage of knowing your in a role playing game. any thoughts?

 

It's a minor psychological limitation that makes other people think you're insane or at least annoying.

[McCoy]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Is it "fourth" (4th) or "forth" (as in "come forth and be counted")?

4th. Think of a TV or play set. The characters exit in a space with three walls, and (usually) behave as if there were a fourth wall between them and the audience. When a character interacts with the audience, it is called "breaking the fourth wall."

[McCoy]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Under current rules I'd just apply the Transdimensional advantage to normal sight and normal hearing or go with the same thing above if you want him to be aware of what the players say OOC and the ability to 'see' them.

I think OzMike has it. Make his sight and hearing ID, and allow the use of OOC knowledge.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

At one point, Deadpool actually greeted someone by saying something akin to 'Dude, I haven't seen you since issue 16, how've you been!'.

 

A lot of it depends on whether or not you want this to actually accomplish something. In Foxbat's case, it doesn't give him any insights or special tricks ... it just makes people think he's nuts.

 

I'm not sure Deadpool's version actually gives him any help ... I don't believe he's actually referenced things he hasn't actually been a part of, for example, I don't think he can read other people's thought balloons or the like. In the DC comics Blasters special, Snapper Carr and Churljenkins had an exchange similar to:

Carr: "We've got to stop those Spider-Guild ships from reaching the hidden base!"

Churl: "How do you know there's a hidden base?"

Carr: "Page 3, Panel 5. You've gotta keep up around here."

 

She-Hulk took it a step further ... I have an issue where she rips through the background, crosses a mockup of the American Comics ad page, then steps onto the next scene, effectively teleporting.

 

So ... yeah ... just how fourth-wall breaky is he? Heck, you could just give him a big Variable Power Pool with the special effects of being able to manipulate comic book reality. Telepathy for reading other people's thought balloons, clairsentience for reading other pages in the comic (aka seeing events happening in other locations), accerating time (various 'And soon ...' segues), Aid to any ability (player re-wrote his character sheet!), and so forth.

[OctoberRaven]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Actually, I think of this and besides the awesome Deadpool and Foxbat, I think of Red Mage from 8 Bit Theatre.

 

While RM was no superhero, he had a special ability: "The Rite of Stat-Swap" which gave him the power to change his character sheet and thus boost his abilities.

 

Consider this: A VPP that only allows Self-Only Transfers (or a Multipower/EC with only Self-Only Transfers), called "Stat Swapping". There's an OAF involved ("Character Sheet"), as well as Gestures (Changing stats on the sheet) and possibly Incantations ("I hope the GM doesn't see me doing this!").

 

Other than that, I agree that giving him RPG Awareness DOES allow a lot of Metagaming, but it won't be so bad if the other characters play it off like he's babbling nonsense. ("Don't worry Amazing Boy! It's only an NND he can't do BODY to you!") Psychological Limitation: Believes He Is In An RPG, and Reputation: Nutjob are good Disads for the character as well.

 

If the Metagaming is a problem, here's an idea to balance it... 25-Point Psych Limitation: Randomly Talks To Himself. Mechanically, this makes any OOC speak other than direct combat/skill declarations be IC speak at GM's discretion.

[Clonus]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Comic awareness just doesn't strike me as all that useful in itself. It's not like he has a comic power pool which lets him do stuff like moving from frame to frame (teleport), or read ahead (precognition), or pursuade the writer to do stuff for him.

[Captain Xenon]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

could be a severely limited clairvoyance(extra-dimensia, possibly time with back issues). if you let him see the VILLIANS scenes as well, then its a real edge. "oh crap! red alert guys, Doc Destroyer is coming! quick, everyone grab a force-field belt before the megascale aoe NND goes off!"

 

for a good vpp.. have him steal an artists ink pen! that would be a fantastic summons, being able to draw people and things (but he isnt that great an artist, so a point cap on their powers).

[BNakagawa]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Back in the days of 1st ed. I played in a game where the general populace knew that they lived in a game world.

 

I lasted one session. It was awful.

 

Having one character think that way might be different.

 

Still, I can't see how anyone else wouldn't end up coming to the conclusion that the one character was delusional. That being said, I wouldn't want to go into potentially lethal situations with a superpowered candidate for a padded cell. You'd have to come up with a compelling reason why the rest of the PCs would have to put up with the presence of someone like that...

 

$0.02

[Great Beyond]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

I've always wanted to do a character who was insane - who knew that he was just a character in a role playing game. He would have a character sheet with his stats on it, carry dice wherever he went, and would have to make a roll whever he wanted to do an action.

 

Mind you, this wouldnt be me the player actually rolling to see if whatever it was happened. He'd have to "make" his roll before I could roll. Everything in the game would have to have two rolls now.

 

Cool idea, but only in the short term. That level of insanity is tough to play out long term.

[Haven Walkur]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Cool idea' date=' but only in the short term. That level of insanity is tough to play out long term.[/quote']

Heard and witnessed! The GM of our Amber Diceless RPG always said that the hardest NPC to play was Lord Dworkin, the absolutely insane forebear of the royal family of Amber.

 

The GM only used him in small doses, because Dworkin was ultra-cosmically powerful and a raving loon, and might conceivably say/do anything. Anything at all! And that was apparently very taxing for the GM (wasn't exactly a picnic for the players, either).

[McCoy]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Still' date=' I can't see how anyone else wouldn't end up coming to the conclusion that the one character was delusional. That being said, I wouldn't want to go into potentially lethal situations with a superpowered candidate for a padded cell. [/quote']

Doesn't that describe all superheros? You think any man in his right mind would dress up as a flying rat to fight crime? The sanest thing Peter Parker did with his power was try to become a pro wrestler. But he gave that up to razzle people trying to kill him, and did it without pay. Sane by any objective standard?

[Clonus]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Doesn't that describe all superheros? You think any man in his right mind would dress up as a flying rat to fight crime? The sanest thing Peter Parker did with his power was try to become a pro wrestler. But he gave that up to razzle people trying to kill him' date=' and did it without pay. [/quote']

 

Not quite. Selling pictures of himself was a pretty practical way to collect a paycheque for being a vigilante.

[OctoberRaven]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

"Action is his reward." - Old school Spiderman theme.

 

That being said, yeah, just about any real-life costumed hero would probably be put in a rubber room, if not jail. Not to mention the only person who could feasibly pull it off is a reclusive millionaire.

 

Which is why Batman is one of my favorites, he's the most 'real' hero in the DCU. Same with Punisher (who IMO is even more 'real'). It's not too far of a stretch to imagine a guy who would fight crime in their respective ways. Would they have long careers? Doubtful. Would the media do their best to turn them into bad guys? Most likely.

 

But hey, in a world where guys in bright spandex shoot laser beams at 600 foot aliens who plan on devouring the earth, and in a world where Squirrel Girl can defeat Thanos, and returning from the dead is a seemingly everyday occurrence (no matter how shocking it is to onlookers) realism is all relative.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Doesn't that describe all superheros? You think any man in his right mind would dress up as a flying rat to fight crime? The sanest thing Peter Parker did with his power was try to become a pro wrestler. But he gave that up to razzle people trying to kill him' date=' and did it without pay. Sane by any objective standard?[/quote']

 

All heroes in all genres are generally regarded as insane by the general population. That's why they are needed. That's why they are heroes.

 

Then again, you answered your own question in your second sentence. Do you think that Batman is in his right mind? In his own way, he's as crazy as any of the villains he habitually combats. Perhaps more so.

 

My objective standards of sanity do not extend to people with paranormal powers and abilities. As we have no benchmark to decide what 'sane' behavior for somebody with superpowers would be, who is to say that Peter Parker is behaving normally or not?

[Armitage]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

I've always wanted to do a character who was insane - who knew that he was just a character in a role playing game. He would have a character sheet with his stats on it' date=' carry dice wherever he went, and would have to make a roll whenever he wanted to do an action.[/quote']

 

The Fool, from Underworld Enemies.

 

"mother when I look at life, when I look at people, they are Blank faceless statistics

someone is watching us, mother, reading over our lives like words on a page laid bare to probe and dissect

they roll bones and we die, mother, empty, foolish deaths."

 

"...while the words, numbers and the strange boxes he draws on the walls of his cell are carefully detailed, they seem to represent nothing (some Doctors have suggested the 'words' may be acronyms, though they have no idea what str, con and dex could possibly stand for)."

 

"Interviews with Percy before his mutilation [he cut out his own eyes and tongue and cut off his own hands] stated he 'saw' auras surrounding people (careful examination of these interviews will allow a player to see that PC heroes and major villains have strong amounts of this energy) with most of humanity being a 'faceless mass'."

[Powerboy]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

Personally I wouldn't bother to give the guy anything. In a typical table top game Everybody breaks the walls sometimes. It's amusing and fun. But as a repeatable schtick it would probably get old fast and the character would almost certainly overdo it.

 

Plus, what's the point? Does the character want to get Disad points for it, does he want to pay points for special abilities, or does he just like the idea of being disruptive? I really don't have any idea what other effects could happen.

 

I'd say the same thing. People, intentionally or not, constantly break the fourth wall and use information the characters don't have or take risks that are beyond heroic and completely into suicidal because the attitude is, "Its just a character." Anytime someone is not playing completely in character, they are breaking the fourth wall.

 

Personally, the reason I stopped reading She-Hulk is because of that. Its funny for a minute. But it makes suspension of disbelief and getting into the story even harder. The only reason I can see for it is if the entire point of the story from the start is to be comedy and likely almost slapstick at that. Of course, gamers tend to often not approach the story 'in character' to begin with. I find that most rpg's are already hard to 'get into' because of people doing things that are untrue to the setting. Personally, I'd find a character who walks around knowing he's a character in a story to be just an annoyance. Now, it would be different if it was a variation on that. Say, a "Princes of Amber" situation where a character who can travel dimensions believes he is from 'the true reality of which all others are a reflection' and has an attitude that all realities except his own are not quite 'real'.

[nexus]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

I actually have a character based on this concept. She has things like precognition (peeking into the next panel or page), Telepathy (reading thought bubbles), Time Travel (so she can appear in other characters "Flashbacks"), fairly high deductiion that needs a KS: Comics (she knows the genre conventions!) Teleportation to step between panels and smallk multipower of Guest artists" that give her small powers based on who's "drawing" her that issue. Healing to stun/end (the last couple of pages were ads so I took a break) stuff like that.

 

And yes, she is considered insane and her Secret ID is under treatment though not institutionalized as she's not considered a danger to herself or others and is rationale enough to care for herself. Of coure, her doctor doesn't know about her secret idenity as Hero Girl.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Forth wall perception?

 

I have a villain like this that I plan on springing on my PC's at some point - his only power is that he can hear the gaming table. He considers the "voices" to be puppet masters that control the actions of the different heroes in his reality, which means the characters are enslaved to petty inter dimensional tyrants who put them through pain and hardship for their own amusement. Therefore, the NPC (called "the Puppeteer") goes around the country, listening for the "voices", which let him know that there's a 'puppet' nearby. Once he identifies a puppet, he'll try to "cut their strings", thereby freeing them from the tyrrany of the puppetmasters.

 

The twist is that, by the time he gets to the PC's table, he starts hearing me, the GM - which means he realizes that he's being controlled by a puppet master as well. Thus, his interactions with the PC's are really an elaborate murder/suicide, whereby he cuts his own strings while 'freeing' as many 'puppets' as he can.