Secret Identities and Teammates

[Gideon]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Tech: Not everyone is set on revealing their SID, and not everyone is set on keeping it secret either. The group is split at almost 50%.

 

The thing of it is, we've played less than 20 game sessions (at about 3 hours a session). I know that eventually Plastron (my character) should be willing to reveal his ID to everyone. It just hasn't happened yet.

 

Seizure's player on the other hand seemingly wanted us to make the reveal first game session, and acts like I am purposely dragging things out.

 

The game is a bit different than usual for me though. ALL the characters know each other and spend time with each other on a daily basis. All of the characters are also friends with 2-3 of the other characters in SID. I actually think it makes things more fun this way.

 

EI: Mervin (yes I named my character Mervin), and Brendan(Saiph) are sitting eating lunch together when suddenly there is an explosion 4 blocks away. Since neither of us knows the other is a superhero (and actually neither of us even suspects it if each other), we both suddenly have to scramble and fumble around for an excuse so we can (separately) disappear and go investigate.

 

Having everyone know each other, and go to school together does make it harder to keep an SID, but it also makes it harder to voluntarily reveal.

 

So you know:

 

At the beginning of the campaign:

The characters go to a normal High School together. And I said before my character is the nerd-turned-jock, and he isn't all that well liked. The nerds don't like him because they view him as a traitor, and the jocks don't like him because some can't get past the fact that he is/was a nerd they made fun of.

 

It actually happened that three of us (Plastron, Seizure, and Prestige) wrote interconnected backgrounds. The three characters have know each other since elementary school. Unfortunately Mervin dropped his friends like dead weight as soon as he got the opportunity to join the football team (It sounds like a lousy thing to do, but I've seen it happen in real life). So while Lynn (Seizure) has tried to stay friendly with Mervin, Seleen (Prestige) openly hates him.

 

Brendan (Saiph), and Melissa (Night) have (as far as my character history is concerned) been classmates but not really friends for the past couple of years. Sarah (Sentinel) is new to the school, the only one to befriend everyone in the group in SID, and my character's academic rival.

 

After 16 game sessions:

 

Things haven't changed much. Seleen and Mervin made up. Melissa professed her utter loathing of Mervin in the middle of the lunch room. Lynn has tried to convince Brendan to dump is girlfriend and date her. Seleen and Sarah have become best friends.

 

Now you know at least a little of the group's dynamic. So because of the things that have gone on in the game, Plastron doesn't want to reveal himself to everyone. He knows they all go to school together, and he knows who Seizure, Prestige, and Sentinel are, but until he knows that Saiph and Night aren't classmates who hate him, he doesn't feel comfortable revealing his SID.

 

Do you think he is right and I am dragging things out?

 

Do you think I should reveal, or wait on it?

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Here's a situation where I can see it being fully in-character for Plastron to reveal his Secret ID:

 

He's just saved Night's life, or at least rescued her from a very sticky situation. She thanks him, or otherwise professes gratitude of some kind. He says, drily, "Are you SURE?", then takes off his helmet.

 

No, he doesn't KNOW she hates him, and it would cause some friction for her to know, but, in the end, one would hope that the fact that you've worked together as a team and she knows she can count on you where it counts would trump any petty differences from the past.

 

I think it makes complete sense for him to keep his secret meanwhile, though.

 

Another way, less likely to generate friction, would be for Mervin to be the one to make amends, apologize for behaving the way he does, and then to tell her, as Mervin, this big secret about himself. It would "out" him to someone he doesn't realize is a teammate, but it would serve the same purpose.

[Great Beyond]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Do you play characters with SID?

Up until just a bit ago, no. The last two characters I've done, however have had one.

 

If and when you do play a character with SID, under what circumstances would you have the character reveal his identity to his teammates?

Well, lets see - Scarlet Arrow started out as just a skilled archer that just happened to be in the area when Crime happened. She helped out, found out that she liked superheroing and joined the others. So she only adopted the secret ID at the prompting of the others.

 

I dont remember how it happened with Great Beyond - I think it was a "My friends! We have to go save. . . . um, this . . . totally random person um. . . off the street. . .ok, sheesh - she's my sister and I need help. Can we go now?"

 

Do your characters always reveal their SID's to their teammates?

Almost enevitably they would - one trip to another dimension for six months and sometime, somewhere that mask will have to come off.

 

As a GM do you forcibly "out" characters to the other PCs?

I wouldnt, but I'd certanly express a prefernce that the characters would. If one steadfastedly refused, I'd be like "Go ahead and keep the ID a secret if you'd like - thats jim dandy. But while the 3/4th of the team is over here off duty at the fouth of july picnic, dont expect me to spend much screen time over in your own private idaho."

 

***EDIT***

On a completely unrelated note - one of the funniest reveals of a secret ID was a couple of years ago. Newton, my character (who had a public ID) and the some previously established characters added a new teammate (who withheld their ID from us). He gave the new member his c-phone, so that she could contact them in the meantime while they got a communicator for her. Now, this new character was a reporter in her civilan ID, and got a chance to interview Newton. DUring the interview, he said "This would be a perfect time to meet everyone. Let me call the new person" and dialed his c-phone number.

 

Of course she had the phone with her - in her purse.

 

A couple of hang-ups and redials later, just to make sure, and her ID was good and blown. All of the players had a good long laugh at that one.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Do you play characters with SID?

Yes. Not all, but some.

If and when you do play a character with SID, under what circumstances would you have the character reveal his identity to his teammates?

One that is dramatically timed, and works within the story.

Do your characters always reveal their SID's to their teammates?

Almost always, and usually gives an in character speech about trusting your teammates, and that sort of thing

As a GM do you forcibly "out" characters to the other PCs?

No. But I make it clear as a GM that within 5 or 10 sessions, I want everyone in the group to know everyone's secret ID, however that works out, and not to build a character who would be irritated that his PC would have his Secret ID known to the team.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

For me, the "characters should always reveal their ID to their teammates" theory is a metagaming construct. Would those players be so quick to have their characters unmask if there were six characters in the team and only five players sitting around the table, or would they be concerned that the NPC might not *really* be a long-term teammate, but perhaps a villainous plant?

 

My characters lack the "Detect Player Character" power, and have to make judgements about their teammates based on their in-game actions. A Secret ID means the character has reasons for maintaining that secret, and those reasons aren't "except for fellow player characters".

 

In my books, "I always reveal my secret ID to my teammates" ranks right up there with "I have a code vs killing, but my teammate doesn't so HE can kill the bad guy for me" in terms of stellar role playing.

[Kevin Roberts]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Here is my two cents,

I have seen where a Gm's uses a player to reveal another characters Secret ID.

Not giving the choice to the player at all.

The game will go into a grind out of players yelling at both the gm and the revealing

character. The game will be then divided into mad people about why you did what and

why. It is best to tell your player if you want your id revealed to your teammates

then ask otherwise don't try to learn the said secret.

[Balabanto]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

That's the way it's SUPPOSED to work, Hugh. There's no such thing as a PC Tee Shirt.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

This is a debate that has probably gone on as long as there have been "superheroes", and the secrets they keep.

 

Some may feel a certain sense of trepidation, when it comes to "taking off the mask"... and this is in many cases truly valid, from the character's point of view.

 

For my "two cents"...

 

Some of the greatest role-playing experiences in superhero gaming is gotten just over the debate of this fact. The whole debate, and such things as the enacting of a SUPERHERO REGISTRATION ACT in a game can make things quite interesting, but it can also drive a wedge between the characters as well (see Marvel's CIVIL WAR as to the type of effect this can have).

 

But, this must be for the players and GM to decide within the confines of their game, and character's persona.

[caris]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Would those players be so quick to have their characters unmask if there were six characters in the team and only five players sitting around the table' date=' or would they be concerned that the NPC might not *really* be a long-term teammate, but perhaps a villainous plant?[/quote']

 

As I understand it, that is the case here. The GM is running an NPC on the team, a GMPC.

[Balabanto]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Even so, it doesn't excuse the action. Metagaming IS metagaming.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Even so' date=' it doesn't excuse the action. Metagaming IS metagaming.[/quote']

It is... what it is.

 

If you believe it to be Metagaming... say so. State your case to the group, as a whole, and resolve the issue. Tell them what you are seeing, communicate your points clearly, and maybe the situation will change... or perhaps not.

 

At least you will have gotten it off your chest.

[Mephron]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I play The Night in the mentioned campign. My character has a couple of very significant reasons for not wanting to give her secret ID out:

 

She's the granddaughter of a supervillian who, years after his public death, is still one of the most reviled individuals who ever walked the planet.

 

She has one of his weapons, which contains technologies that are illegal for people to have.

 

And she has a device that, as far as anyone can tell, is completely unique.

 

With these three things, she doesn't want people knowing. It just means more people to possibly leak this information, put her loved ones in dangers, et cetera.

 

Also, she doesn't completely trust Seizure, and doesn't want the telepath to know her secrets.

[Cygnia]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I know I suggested it earlier, but have you two talked to your GM about your concerns here? You can get a 50-50 split from the folks here about revealing your IDs or not, but if it's not something that plausibly/realistically your characters feel they want to or can do right now and if you have concerns about being forced -- or worse -- having it metagamed and taken out of your control, you NEED to talk to your GM sooner rather than later.

 

One player should not be allowed to badger and railroad everyone else into forcing to do his style of play.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

For me, the "characters should always reveal their ID to their teammates" theory is a metagaming construct. Would those players be so quick to have their characters unmask if there were six characters in the team and only five players sitting around the table, or would they be concerned that the NPC might not *really* be a long-term teammate, but perhaps a villainous plant?

 

My characters lack the "Detect Player Character" power, and have to make judgements about their teammates based on their in-game actions. A Secret ID means the character has reasons for maintaining that secret, and those reasons aren't "except for fellow player characters".

 

In my books, "I always reveal my secret ID to my teammates" ranks right up there with "I have a code vs killing, but my teammate doesn't so HE can kill the bad guy for me" in terms of stellar role playing.

I should point out that even in the comic book Justice League, arguably the most formalized team in comicdom, team members often don't know each others' Secret IDs. Sure, the core members (Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman) all do but even important members like Green Lantern and the Flash don't.

 

I say let it play out organically. There may come a time and place where it is important for everyone to know each others' Secret ID's. Until such a time arrives, there's no point to forcing it. If nothing else, relaxing enough to let out such private information can be an important bond between characters and can make for excellent roleplaying opportunities.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

One player should not be allowed to badger and railroad everyone else into forcing to do his style of play.

How true...

 

When the game starts being dominated by the will or desires of ONE PERSON, the "fun factor" drops off for all players involved in the game.

 

It's okay for the short term, to focus on one person alone, but everyone must get their "fair share as well.

[Mephron]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I say let it play out organically. There may come a time and place where it is important for everyone to know each others' Secret ID's. Until such a time arrives' date=' there's no point to forcing it. If nothing else, relaxing enough to let out such private information can be an important bond between characters and can make for excellent roleplaying opportunities.[/quote']

 

Yeah, that's my feelings about it right now.

 

Seizure said, "I would be disappointed to find out that people on this team don't trust each other enough to reveal who we are without our masks on!"

 

The Night: *flat tone* "Get used to disappointment."

 

In the Mind Over Matter session with Vigilance (the Boston Teens team) going on a road trip to South Carolina, everyone got separate hotel rooms on their stop in Virginia. Someone saw Papa Paulo's delivering a pizza to a hotel room, followed him, found it was the Night's room. Unfortunately, they didn't get there in time to see the Night's face before the door closed and was locked.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Yeah, that's my feelings about it right now.

 

Seizure said, "I would be disappointed to find out that people on this team don't trust each other enough to reveal who we are without our masks on!"

 

The Night: *flat tone* "Get used to disappointment."

 

In the Mind Over Matter session with Vigilance (the Boston Teens team) going on a road trip to South Carolina, everyone got separate hotel rooms on their stop in Virginia. Someone saw Papa Paulo's delivering a pizza to a hotel room, followed him, found it was the Night's room. Unfortunately, they didn't get there in time to see the Night's face before the door closed and was locked.

IMO there would be almost as many reasons to hide Secret IDs from teammates as from the public. Why automatically trust someone with your life (and that of your loved ones) just because they wear the same team logo? Even cops and soldiers (probably the nearest real world analogues to supers) have to develop trust; it doesn't just spring forth the minute they meet. Once a bond of trust has been established, then unmasking becomes more realistic. I suspect in most cases characters would choose to reveal themselves to one or two more trusted teammates before unmasking before the whole group.

 

Just because we all know each other's Secret ID's in my current campaign doesn't mean I think it's valid for every team. I've played in campaigns where hardly anyone knew each others' SID's.

[Gideon]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

As I understand it' date=' that is the case here. The GM is running an NPC on the team, a GMPC.[/quote']

 

And just for clarification, the NPC/GMPC got her secret ID revealed to the team by a villian.

 

Cygnia: The GM well knows what is going on. And for a while the player in question quited down about it.

 

My biggest problem with Seizure's player right now, is not that he has her trying to goad us and guilt us into opening up to her and letting her know their SIDs. My problem is that early on in the game the player made a side comment to me he he thought it was stupid that I wasn't willing to have my character unmask himself infront of the group like his character had just done.

 

He seemed to genuenly be under the assumption that as soon as Seizure revealed her SID (and we all saw that it was our friend Lynn behind the mask) that we would all have our characters willingly make a concerted effort to unmask ourselves to the team.

 

Unfortunately for him, I refuse to metagame this. And the way Seizure revealed her SID has made my character weary of telling her secrets. So in effect he gave me an extra reason not to reveal SID.

[input.jack]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Gideon, Ive played characters who unmasked in exactly the same way that Seizure did.

 

Sometimes, everyone else followed suit.

 

Sometimes a few people didnt.

 

Seizure's Player needs to get wise to the fact that as a Player, he has absolute control over his character, and absolutely zip over anyone elses.

 

I can understand the desire for characters to know each others secret IDs. But there are also characters (like The Night) who have good, SOLID reasons not to want to tell anyone on a lark.

 

I do agree that a game-group meeting is called for. And that the goal should be to formalize that characters may or may not reveal their identities, and if they do itll be when theyre darned good and ready.

 

Or the GM should make it clear that he wants all IDs outed, if thats his deal.

 

But the Player in question needs to know the terrain, so to speak. That way hell stop bugging people over something that he really has no right to.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

As I understand it' date=' that is the case here. The GM is running an NPC on the team, a GMPC.[/quote']

 

The same issue exists. There aren't any GMPC T shirts either. If the players instantly trust anyone in their group, would that same instant trust be granted to another character appearing and being involved for a couple of scenarios, or would the players look around and think "Hmmm...GMPC is still here, now there's this second GM character. Better not trust this one - could be a plant."

 

My character doesn't know the other characters are trustworthy until in-game events cause him to believe that. Many characters also have DNPC's whom they trust and love dearly. Should those DNPC's automatically know the character's secret ID, or is it only "fellow player characters", however identified, who should be invited into that circle of knowledge, even if the character has only recently met them.

 

IMO there would be almost as many reasons to hide Secret IDs from teammates as from the public. Why automatically trust someone with your life (and that of your loved ones) just because they wear the same team logo? Even cops and soldiers (probably the nearest real world analogues to supers) have to develop trust; it doesn't just spring forth the minute they meet. Once a bond of trust has been established' date=' then unmasking becomes more realistic. I suspect in most cases characters would choose to reveal themselves to one or two more trusted teammates before unmasking before the whole group.[/quote']

 

Exactly. The character presumably has reasons for keeping his ID a secret. Unless those reasons somehow do not extend to his teammates, it's pretty lousy role playing to take off the mask for administrative convenience.

 

My biggest problem with Seizure's player right now' date=' is not that he has her trying to goad us and guilt us into opening up to her and letting her know their SIDs. My problem is that early on in the game the [i']player[/i] made a side comment to me he he thought it was stupid that I wasn't willing to have my character unmask himself infront of the group like his character had just done.

 

He seemed to genuenly be under the assumption that as soon as Seizure revealed her SID (and we all saw that it was our friend Lynn behind the mask) that we would all have our characters willingly make a concerted effort to unmask ourselves to the team.

 

Unfortunately for him, I refuse to metagame this. And the way Seizure revealed her SID has made my character weary of telling her secrets. So in effect he gave me an extra reason not to reveal SID.

 

Perhaps a reasonable in-game respose might be along the lines of "Given how careful you are with your own secrets, trusting you with my own hardly seems prudent." An OOC response might reasonably be "My character has his own reasons for maintaining a secret ID. If your character wants to pry, that's fine, but my character's opinions and personality are not going to change because of any player to player discussions. Seizure will have to convince Plastron, in character."

 

Seizure's Player needs to get wise to the fact that as a Player, he has absolute control over his character, and absolutely zip over anyone elses.

 

I can understand the desire for characters to know each others secret IDs. But there are also characters (like The Night) who have good, SOLID reasons not to want to tell anyone on a lark.

 

I do agree that a game-group meeting is called for. And that the goal should be to formalize that characters may or may not reveal their identities, and if they do itll be when theyre darned good and ready.

 

Or the GM should make it clear that he wants all IDs outed, if thats his deal.

 

But the Player in question needs to know the terrain, so to speak. That way hell stop bugging people over something that he really has no right to.

 

There's also nothing wrong, in my opinion, with one or more PC's stating flat out that they will not reveal their ID's in this fashion, and would leave the group rather than be forced to reveal their real identities.

 

A stupid question: Why is it no big deal for Seizure to reveal his secret ID to the other player characters in Super form, but has not (I assume) revealed his Super identity to any unmasked normals who are also close friends (possibly including the secret ID's of other PC's, but also other friends and possibly excluding some PC secret ID's)? IOW, what's so special about the fact that his teammates are also wearing masks that these recent acquaintances merit his full trust, when his friends he's known for years don't share this same worthiness?

[caris]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

The same issue exists. There aren't any GMPC T shirts either. If the players instantly trust anyone in their group' date=' would that same instant trust be granted to another character appearing and being involved for a couple of scenarios, or would the players look around and think "Hmmm...GMPC is still here, now there's this second GM character. Better not trust this one - could be a plant."[/quote']

 

Hugh, I was only addressing your question that I quoted.

 

Would those players be so quick to have their characters unmask if there were six characters in the team and only five players sitting around the table' date=' or would they be concerned that the NPC might not *really* be a long-term teammate, but perhaps a villainous plant?[/quote']

 

Apparently, in this specific case, yes, the player would do the same if there were six characters on the team, but only five players on the team.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Hugh, I was only addressing your question that I quoted.

 

Apparently, in this specific case, yes, the player would do the same if there were six characters on the team, but only five players on the team.

 

If the players are aware there is a GMPC, I count that as six characters and 6 players. The GM is in a "player role" when running a GM PC.

 

In any case, the point is simple - the CHARACTER's decision is made solely by the PLAYER expectations.

[Gideon]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Gideon' date=' Ive played characters who unmasked in exactly the same way that Seizure did.[/quote']

No offense, but I doubt it.

A stupid question: Why is it no big deal for Seizure to reveal his secret ID to the other player characters in Super form' date=' but has not (I assume) revealed his Super identity to any unmasked normals who are also close friends (possibly including the secret ID's of other PC's, but also other friends and possibly excluding some PC secret ID's)? IOW, what's so special about the fact that his teammates are also wearing masks that these recent acquaintances merit his full trust, when his friends he's known for years don't share this same worthiness?[/quote']

 

Well, actually its not a stupid question.

 

The short answer is:

 

She didn't reveal her secret ID to her teammates. She revealed her ID to her classmates.

 

The long answer is:

 

Part of the back story of the game is that Mervin, Lynn, and Seleen's friend Erica was killed the summer prior to the game starting. As the game began, strange things started that we couldn't explain, and there were signs that lead us to believe that Erica's ghost was haunting us (In SID).

 

So, the group got together in SIDs for a traditional horror movie style séance out in the middle of the woods, to try to contact Erica's ghost. Well we soon found out that Erica wasn't a ghost. She was a horrible swamp-elemental monster that wanted to KILL Seleen.

 

Brendan (Saiph) ran for his life (then turned around when he was out of sight from the group and Instant Changed).

 

Melissa (Night) had no gear on her, nor did she have her costume. But she tried to stand her ground, proving to everyone that she knew some small amounts of self-defense as she tried to distract the monster.

 

Sarah (Sentinel) had no gear on her either and not being a hand-to-hand fighter, moved off.

 

Mervin (Plastron) wanted to keep his SID, so being the big tough jock he attacked the monster barehanded. He got tossed casually into a tree and wounded (but was still conscious). Sarah (known openly to know first-aid) tried to help him.

 

Seleen (Prestige) dodged a lot, and used stuff that she could pass off as "stage magic" or that had IPE to attack the monster and defend herself, without putting her costume on.

 

Lynn (Seizure) on the other hand, instant changed into costume directly in front of everyone (the only person who didn't see it was Brendan, cause he was hiding). It was a totally unnecessary maneuver on her part. She's a mentalist. All of her powers are invisible, and she doesn't need to be in costume to use them.

 

So, she didn't go to the team and take her mask off, saying: "Yeah, guys I'm really Lynn". No, she put her costume on and used her powers infront of Sarah, Mervin and Melissa.

 

Now Mervin doesn't trust Lynn's ability to keep his ID secret.

 

On a side note... it turned out Seleen found Seizure's SID first game session because both characters teleported into the same small room to change into costume at the same time. It was funny to watch because Seizure's player had gotten up from the table for a moment, and when he returned the GM said: "What does seizure do?". The player proceded to say: "I teleport to the Lighting booth in the school theatre and change into costume". When she arived Prestige was standing there having just instant changed...

[Colossus]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

It should be the PC option, but if they hid their ID it may have problems. One of my PC last week actually had another PC masquerade as him using a high level Shape Shift Power. The one PC, who was wanted by the police took the form of the other, while the other was in his SID, a police officer, trying to get more information. Both had SID they have not yet shared. They both enjoyed the role playing. If everyone else shares their ID and you do not there may be trust issues in the team, but that leads to role playing. It really depends on the team feel.

 

Some teams like the X-Men and their various allies tend to live together and therefore know almost everyone’s SID (Wolverine is the exception, but hey as he did not know it).

 

Some teams socialize a lot, Teen Titans, and know each others SID pretty much from the start.

 

Others like the Avengers know some and not others for years.

 

IN the DCU SID are pretty much no longer an issue within the superhuman community, dozens of people (all the JLA, JSA, Titans and their former members) know Batman is Bruce Wayne.

 

Trust need to be built.

[Balabanto]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

The problem with this is that in many worlds (including this one), telepaths are feared.

 

If Bob, Fred, Joe, and Harry all have secret ids, all know each other, and they all have high EGO scores, then it's okay. But if Fred has EGO 8, guess what.

 

Suddenly, the telepath doesn't just know Freds SID. He also knows Bobs, Joes, and Harrys.