Secret Identities and Teammates

[Gideon]

In the teen superhero game I play there has been a constant debate about SIDs

 

My character doesn't want the team to know who he is. His superhero identity (Plastron) looks like a 6'5" tall robot/ power-armor type. He continuously claims to be a cybernetic being created by aliens, and he doesn't have a "real life". His SID is the school nerd-turned-jock and he isn't well liked, so he is afraid that if he reveals his ID the group will reject him.

 

Another character in the group is a "Dark Vigilante" type. A martial artist/ investigator with some gadgets (think Robin or Spoiler). She doesn't want to reveal her SID either. She has her own reasons (I don't know them, I don't play the character)

 

A third character was put in a situation where the player felt it appropriate to reveal his characters SID to people. However, the difference here is that the player believes that the PCs (AKA teammates) should always be willing to reveal their SIDs to each other.

 

His belief stems from the fact that most of the games he's played the characters eventually revealed themselves to each other (so he thinks of it as the normal thing to do). He can't understand both why we as players don't want to do so, and as characters aren't willing to do so.

 

Now his character is trying to coax us into taking off our "masks".

 

So I have a couple of questions for everyone:

 

Do you think he is right and the PCs should always be willing to reveal SIDs to each other?

 

Or do you think that it is right for characters to keep their SIDs from teammates?

 

Also Under what circumstances would you have a character you play who has SID reveal his identity to his teammates?

[Hermit]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

There have been times where I confess to, as a GM, encouraged the players to have their characters reveal their identities to each other, preferably in a way that seems to flow naturally even if there are OOC reasons because it makes it easier for me to get them communicating, and to hook them into adventures or plots if I need to. In exchange, it is generally understood that I won't use this as an excuse to screw their secret ID disads over, since I'm the one promoting the situation.

 

However, some characters, like your own it seems, have RPing reasons not to reveal themselves. That's fine, and I don't see how it is ruining the fun of the other players not to know, unless it is somehow slowing up gaming or causing trouble getting the team together. What's more, I HOPE the player who is now having his character trying to coax his team mates into revealing their secret IDs has IC reasons for playing it so. I don't know that character's personality or psych lims, so I can't say.

 

In the end, I think it is better if after working together for awhile, saving each others lives, and so forth, if superheroes on the same team DO reveal their secret IDs to each other. Trust is important to teamwork, and from a security perspective, I think it might cut down on the odds of one of you being replaced by a spy, or at least cut down on the spy getting away with it But it is best if it happens naturally, as part of a storyline. It can be as simple as removing a full mask to perform mouth to mouth to save someone, or as bizarre as unmasking a supervillain, only to find out he's wearing YOUR face, and not sure how to tell your team mates (in private) that "No, Joe Doe is NOT a criminal. You see, Joe Doe... is ME!" then unmask, and try to figure out what the #$#$ is going on.

[caris]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I see two issues, and they should be dealt with separately: what the player expects and what the character wants. I say that these are two separate issues, because either one could be resolved without the other being resolved.

 

Personally, I’d start with the player issue. I’d talk to the player about my game expectations. If I assumed he could handle it without it influencing his role play, I’d explain my reasons for my character’s behavior. I’d also point out that this has happened in source material. Batman has not reveled his SID to every JLA member, nor does Robin. Hopefully, this could be resolved with a simple discussion. Particularly, since in the case of your PC at least, it would not seem to be a permanent issue. Your PC may reach the point where he trusts the other PCs enough not to be worried about them rejecting him.

 

I side part of this conversation should include how you would feel about another PC attempting to find out your character’s SID without him telling them. This could become an issue with either of the two other characters you’ve described in the game.

 

Once you’ve dealt with the meta-game issue, than you and the other players can discuss how much of game time do you want the SID issues between the characters to take up. Do you want to do plots involving the one character attempting to coax the others to reveal their identities? Do you want the “Dark Vigilante” want to find out your SID, just incase she needs that info?

 

Beyond that, I do not think there are any right or wrong answers. It is a matter of group dynamics. What is appropriate for the groups I play with won’t necessarily be right in your group. Hopefully, both you and the other player are at least open to the other person’s POV.

[caris]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I am curious though. Do all of the player's know the other characters' SID on a metagame level?

[Gideon]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Ok,

 

First: caris: I already talked to the player, and his fealings on it seem to be that I am being unreasonable, and even if my character doesn't want to reveal, either I should come up with a reason for him to do so or I should ask the GM to force it. He seems to think that it takes away from the game, wearas I do not (and actually I like the game better the way it is).

 

Second: On a meta level yes we all know. And in some cases we know IC as well as OOC.

 

There are 6 characters in the group:

 

All the characters are the same age, go to the same school, and are in most of the same classes. They all know each other outside of costumes, and some of them (but not all) are friends.

 

Night (Dark Vigilante)

Plastron (Power Armor)

Siezure (Psychic)

Saiph (Energy Projector)

Sentinel (Gageteer)

Prestige (Mage)

 

Do to PC action (on the part of Siezure) everyone knows Siezure's SID

Do to a reacurring main villian everyone knows Sentinel's SID

Do to the same villian Sentinel know's Plastron's SID

Nobody know's Night's SID

Do to both PC action (on the part of Prestige), and a different villian everyone know's Prestige's SID

 

And last but not least

 

Night stumbled upon Saiph while he was instant changeing and discovered his SID (the GM had no influence on this, both PCs went to the same place to change into costume at the same time and Saiph failed his perception roll). After a teen-party-gone-wrong Seizure tried to Mind Scan for Saiph's SID and found that he was standing 2 feet away from her: SID revealed!

[Cygnia]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I think you should talk to your GM, but not about "forcing the issue". You have a player who is dangerously close to blurring the line between IC & OOC reasonings here. If you and your character aren't comfortable with revealing your SID right now and you're worried this player might try to godmode his/her way into finding it out illegally, then tell the GM about your concerns ASAP, especially if not knowing the ID isn't any sort of detriment to the game for anyone else.

[caris]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Gideon,

 

 

Thanks for the additional detail. I’m getting the impression either you are new to this group or the group itself is new.

 

You and the other player are at an impasse. Neither of you are “wrong” in preferring one style of play over the other. Only the seven of you (players and GM) have the ability to decide if he has the “right” to try and force you to play the way he prefers or if he has to force himself to live with your style of play.

 

It does sound like that compromise is not an option that can be found, and even if it were, it sounds like neither of you are interested. One of you is going to have to give in, and from what you are describing about the game so far in relation to SID, I’d suggest that you bow to the inevitable. Only one of the six players has a completely untainted SID. Of the three that have been revealed to the whole team, two are at least in part due to GM action. Finally, I’m guessing that Seizure or Prestige is the character of the player with the issue. If I’m correct, than the PC probably has the power to “accidentally” “out” your character. If the GM wants/prefers that all the PCs know each others SID, than there is little to reign in the other player.

 

About the only thing that I see at the moment that is going to allow Plastron and Night to keep their SID from the rest of the team is if everyone tells the player with the problem to drop it. Unfortunately, I am not getting the impression that this is a 6 to 1 split in your group.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

In general, I'm against the idea of keeping SIDs secret for the entire run of a campaign, depending on length. One would hope that they would reveal their SIDs out of trust for one another, which would lead to greater roleplaying opportunities. It's difficult to interact with someone who's hiding a part of who he (or she) is.

 

However, if it makes sense within the context of roleplay, and the PCs haven't earned one another's trust, why should they?

 

I'm in a Teen Champions game, as well, which just started up. My PC is roommates with a PC teammate, only neither realizes the other's secret. There are several features built into the school we're attending to keep one another from finding out without revealing it, ourselves.

 

It being only one session in, my character isn't even comfortable calling herself a "super." She thinks there's something wrong with her, and has yet to discover the benefits to embracing what makes her different. (That will, of course, play out in the next few sessions, and then I can dispose of the angst. I hope.)

 

But meanwhile, she has a very good reason for not revealing her identity to anyone else. She's ashamed of it, and views it as a deep, dark secret. The only reason she's going to this school is to learn to control that part of her, so that she can prevent herself from using it at all. (Of course, I have every intention of that evolving as she realizes how useful it is to have powers.)

 

On top of that, they've really only just met, and have known each other less than a week. Trust doesn't build that quickly, really.

 

I'm sure the SIDs won't remain secret for too many more sessions, but meanwhile, there's good reason for them to remain secret from one another.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Personally I'm not a fan of SIDs in team games but some character concepts call for them. It makes it TONS easier when they know each others SIDs but unless something organically and logically happens you should probably always leave it to the player if he/she wants to reveal it. if the coming out is natural and real its usually so much better for characters and players alike.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Hmm. Well, as usual, most folks have said the useful parts I've got. Personally? While you've both got the right to enjoy the game the way you do (personally, I lean towards "let the team know your SID, it's easier to explain little things like 'just why is it that you're so fixated on saving that person in favor of YOUR TEAMMATES?!?' when 'that person' is your SID's significant other"), I think you're the one in the right here... assuming that it's not causing game problems beyond his attitude issues.

 

Frankly... his entire argument *sounds* like it boils down to "I don't care if it's for valid in-character reasons. You're not playing the way I want you to play, so change it!" And for assorted reasons, that sort of thing *really* shuts me down.

[Lemurion]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

As a GM, I do find it easier if all the characters learn each other's SIDs over the course of the game. However for the characters it should be a major trust issue and as such should not be forced. I don't like the idea of a player trying to coax other players to have their characters to reveal their SIDs because it's what people do in team games.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I'll go with the general concensus - while having players know each other's SID's tends to make for an easier game, it shouldn't be forced: either have it set up as part of the backstory, or else let it flow organically from actions in the game.

 

And yes, the player who is trying to force it is having IC/OOC issues.

[Peregrine]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

OTOH, make sure that your character is still a team player, is available IC when the team needs him, etc. Don't make your SID an excuse to be anti-social IC, or to try to force the game to center on your character. (All things I've seen done by players who wanted to keep their character's SID from their teammates.)

 

It's a balance.

[Balabanto]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Speaking as the GM, whose GMPC had the SID discovered as the result of a villain plan, whoever had that "He's me" idea is going to get some rep, let me tell you.

[Gideon]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

I’m getting the impression either you are new to this group or the group itself is new.

Thats part of why this is hard. I'm not new to the group. I've been friends with and been in RPGs with 3 of the players for close to 10 years now, and the one I'm having the problem with for 5 years. The only new player is the person playing Saiph, who I brought to the game.

 

I've even played in 2 other campaigns with the person in question, and the debate never came up because both of my PCs had Public ID.

Of the three that have been revealed to the whole team, two are at least in part due to GM action.

Actually only 2 out of the 6 characters know Saiph's SID. Everyone knows Sentinel's and everyone knows Seizures.

Finally, I’m guessing that Seizure or Prestige is the character of the player with the issue. If I’m correct, than the PC probably has the power to “accidentally” “out” your character.

Another tough part of this whole debate. It's Seizure's player who is doing this. But he has promised everyone at the table that he won't force the matter (both IC and OOC), and he has promised that an "accident" will only happen if it is the single most likely course of action Seizure would take.

 

Nobody (including myself) questioned the action she took that lead to her "accidentally" discovering Saiph's SID. It was exactly what we all thought the character would do.

 

I think I misrepresented my question a little. I know that eventually my character will most likely reveal his SID to everyone. This isn't so much about my problem with the conduct of the player in my group.. its more about how people view SID.

 

The real question here is:

 

Do you play characters with SID?

 

If and when you do play a character with SID, under what circumstances would you have the character reveal his identity to his teammates?

 

Do your characters always reveal their SID's to their teammates?

 

As a GM do you forcibly "out" characters to the other PCs?

[csyphrett]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

The real question here is:

 

Do you play characters with SID?

 

Sometimes

 

If and when you do play a character with SID, under what circumstances would you have the character reveal his identity to his teammates?

 

Usually under life and death circumstances

 

Do your characters always reveal their SID's to their teammates?

 

no

 

As a GM do you forcibly "out" characters to the other PCs?

 

No. My experience has been the character typically does something in game where the identity becomes known as blowback from his actions such as a suicide attack, so forth.

CES

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Check this out....

 

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=990599#post990599

 

As a GM and Player I think having a SID that fellow characters aren't aware of detracts too much from the game. It gets old fast the "trying to avoid people finding out" especially when those people are being played by other people sitting around a table with you.

[input.jack]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Do you play characters with SID?

 

Usually I play a character who has not taken an ID related Disad, one way or the other. I play as though I had a Secret ID, but if someone in my team finds out, oh well. If the secret is vital to the character (as it is for Revenant), I take Secret ID. In fact, Revenant has both Secret ID (as Revenant), and Public ID (as Donovan Bishop; CEO of Bishop Enterprises)

 

If and when you do play a character with SID' date=' under what circumstances would you have the character reveal his identity to his teammates? [/quote']

 

For most characters, it depends on circumstances. ive had several characters (including Spirit Eagle) who revealed their Secret ID to teammates practically upon formation of the team. Revenant's Secret ID is known to most of the Sentinels, but not all of them. (Basically he likes to serve at least two years on a team with someone before revealing his ID, but hes been known to let people in early if need be).

 

Basically, its a matter of trust. Ive had characters who guarded their identities closely, and those who, like your friend, wanted everyone to reveal.

 

The revelation of IDs makes sense in some ways; it allows the characters to contact each other more easily, makes infiltration mroe difficult, and allows them to pool their talents and resources better. It also demonstrates trust. The characters of mine who want to know their teammates IDs usually start the ball rolling by revealing their own.

 

If your team has a couple of people whose IDs are known to everyone, that should leave those characters feeling -very- vulnerable compared to their team mates who have been unwilling to extend the same amount of trust.

 

Do your characters always reveal their SID's to their teammates?

 

Usually. Even Revenant has opened up to several people. For a long-standing team to maintain concealed identities seems like it would undermine the trust of the characters and weaken the heart of the team.

 

As a GM do you forcibly "out" characters to the other PCs?

 

 

If its part of a story-line, and the characters have failed tot ake steps to prevent it, then maybe. But I would NEVER do so lightly, or without telling the Player that I was thinking of running a storyline that might involve outing them, and asking if it was OK.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

The real question here is:

 

Do you play characters with SID?

 

As the GM for most of the past 18 years, I've rarely gotten to create Champions characters for myself. When I did, I had a Secret ID mainly because it's a genre convention.

If and when you do play a character with SID, under what circumstances would you have the character reveal his identity to his teammates?

After trust is established (though I'm a pretty trusting person, so this doesn't take long), just because it makes life easier.

Do your characters always reveal their SID's to their teammates?

Thus far, yes.

As a GM do you forcibly "out" characters to the other PCs?

Not forcibly, though I've set up situations where revealing a SID was a logical, even preferable, choice. I've also asked in-game, GM to player, whether a given PC has revealed his/her SID to any or all of the other PCs.

 

I ran one Champions campaign years back where the PCs were all anti-PRIMUS, and one player's character died in battle, so for a new character he created an undercover PRIMUS agent assigned to infiltrate the team. He revealed his "secret identity" (I think it was actually a false one) to his teammates, but neither the characters nor the other players ever knew the truth about him, even to this day.

 

As far as you and the player in question, if I were in your situation I'd point out to him that my character would, in time, most likely reveal his identity to his teammates, and the same likely applies to the other player characters. So the other player just needs to be patient and let time take care of it.

 

Him forcing the issue (with the GM or the other players) would just cause problems, both between characters and between players. While the first of those offers good RP opportunities, the second will only offer bad feelings.

[wylodmayer]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Well, I can see the point the "no secrets" guy is making, but I still think he's wrong.

 

After all, the cry of "but it's in character!" isn't a trump card that defeats all other considerations. I think most of us - I realize there's likely to be at least one dissenter - would move to suppress PC actions that are highly disruptive to everyone's enjoyment of the game, no matter how "true to character" they may be. After all, the player might have a character who is an absolute cretin! In such cases, all sorts of undesirable behaviors would be "in character" - that doesn't mean they are any more welcome in the game.

 

On the other hand, we are concerned, generally, that PCs act in character rather than just for the convenience of the player or his fellows. We applaud the player who has the chops to do something that isn't in his character's best interest from a metagame POV because it's the plausible thing to do in character - it's usually considered good-roleplaying.

 

Some GMs give some leeway in allowing players to seize upon "backwards rationalizations" for the purpose of finding "in character" ways of justifying an action the player wants to be able to take - perhaps this is what the "no secret IDs" player meant when he suggested that a reason be found to reveal your secret. This sort of play treads the line between metagaming of the "using player knowledge improperly" variety (which is generally considered bad) and metagaming of the "using player knowledge to find reasons for the character to act in a genre-appropriate fashion" variety (which is sometimes - but hardly universally - considered good). In any case, there's no clear consensus on whether this is a good way to play.

 

Certainly, though, if keeping your secret ID is plausible for the character, and not just a metagame way for the player to annoy his comrades, then you seem to be on the side of right, here. While the "in character" excuse can't be used to justify obnoxious behaviors, it seems unlikely that a reasonable level of secrecy from one character would be considered game-disruptive by any rational person. Once we rule out the idea that your persistence in maintaining the secret of your true identity is actively harming the group (as players or characters), then we are left with the sense that your fellow player is complaining that you aren't playing the character the way he would, a complaint which seems highly unreasonable.

 

Gaming is a social activity, and gaming groups have social norms. While in many (but not all!) gaming groups, it would be considered disruptive to kill other PCs, few groups would consider it out-of-bounds for an individual player to make his own decisions about a character, even if those decisions didn't sit well with another player! The player who says that your continued secrecy is ruining the game for him is making a rather outrageous claim - much as I would be if I claimed that I can't enjoy a movie if anyone else in the theater is wearing blue sneakers. There's no social norm which prohibits wearing blue sneakers, just as there's certainly no social norm that prohibits individual players from making their own decisions! It would be unreasonable for me to single out that particular, innocuous act to make a stink about, just as it's unreasonable for him to claim that your decision to play the character in your own way somehow ruins his enjoyment.

 

Obviously, his defense would be that such play is disruptive and thus not subject to the "in character" defense, but at that point, he is in disagreement with the rest of the social group. If he really feels that it is disruptive, he needs to either (a) convince them of this idea, ( find a group that already feels that way, or © learn to live with it.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Possibly not relevant because it's not directly game-related, but I seem to remember a story or story arc in the Justice League which gave excellent reasons why the JLAers were explicitly not supposed to share their SIDs with each other. Obviously that's changed - in fact it's starting to bug me how often they use each others' SID names in semi-public, nonsecure settings - but come on, how often do hero teams get infiltrated, or teammates turn villain, or get mind controlled, etc. etc.

 

Even though there are clearly good OOC reasons to share SIDs, I wouldn't think it would be the norm for NPC groups.

[starblaze]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Possibly not relevant because it's not directly game-related, but I seem to remember a story or story arc in the Justice League which gave excellent reasons why the JLAers were explicitly not supposed to share their SIDs with each other. Obviously that's changed - in fact it's starting to bug me how often they use each others' SID names in semi-public, nonsecure settings - but come on, how often do hero teams get infiltrated, or teammates turn villain, or get mind controlled, etc. etc.

 

Even though there are clearly good OOC reasons to share SIDs, I wouldn't think it would be the norm for NPC groups.

 

That is interesting, because in the JLA Year One series the team starts out with everyone having a SID and keeping it a secret from one another. In time however, they find that having secrets from one another was making it impossible to trust each other and they ended up taking of the masks.

[McCoy]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Personally, my heros with Secret ID do tend to share them with teammates. But there is enough genre convention of the team being infiltrated (Wonder Man) or someone being mind controled (Jarvis) or turning against the group (Snapper Carr) that I can see the point of those who do not.

 

As a GM, I have never required PC's tell each other their Secret ID.

[Tech]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

In the teen superhero game I play there has been a constant debate about SIDs

 

My character doesn't want the team to know who he is. His superhero identity (Plastron) looks like a 6'5" tall robot/ power-armor type. He continuously claims to be a cybernetic being created by aliens, and he doesn't have a "real life". His SID is the school nerd-turned-jock and he isn't well liked, so he is afraid that if he reveals his ID the group will reject him.

 

Another character in the group is a "Dark Vigilante" type. A martial artist/ investigator with some gadgets (think Robin or Spoiler). She doesn't want to reveal her SID either. She has her own reasons (I don't know them, I don't play the character)

 

A third character was put in a situation where the player felt it appropriate to reveal his characters SID to people. However, the difference here is that the player believes that the PCs (AKA teammates) should always be willing to reveal their SIDs to each other.

 

His belief stems from the fact that most of the games he's played the characters eventually revealed themselves to each other (so he thinks of it as the normal thing to do). He can't understand both why we as players don't want to do so, and as characters aren't willing to do so.

 

Now his character is trying to coax us into taking off our "masks".

 

So I have a couple of questions for everyone:

 

Do you think he is right and the PCs should always be willing to reveal SIDs to each other?

 

This sounds like your player has an entirely different expectation of this area of the campaign than everyone else. Before the next game, why not ask everyone who can to come say 15 minutes early to discuss this as a group to avoid hard feelings between players later on? I don't think he's right or wrong because I don't know your players or campaign setting but it needs to be worked out before it blows up, even it's a little blow up.

 

Or do you think that it is right for characters to keep their SIDs from teammates?

 

Also Under what circumstances would you have a character you play who has SID reveal his identity to his teammates?

 

Are the players firmly set in not revealing their Secret IDs? If not, maybe an episode can be set later on down the line where everyone eventually finds out who is who. I will say that it is so much easier when everyone knows everyone else's SID because that way the players can have their characters interact as heroes and in their SID. So many plots can be done in this manner. Off the top of my head:

 

In SID, player 1 invites players 2-5 to a dancehall for some dancing (or learn to dance) while Player 6 is out following leads to a known supervillain. Player 6 finds out the baddy is planning to attack a celebrity as a dancehall, the very one the other heroes in SID are.

 

I came up with that idea in less than a few seconds because of the flexibility the comes with everyone knowing everyone else's SID. However, at the same time, plots can still be done where some players know each other's SID but not all. In our best well-known, oldest and respected hero group, not everyone knows everyon's SID and everyone respects that decision (in game and out of game). You can still tie heroes into a game much like the above scenario except a little more luck comes into play to get everyone together.

 

Ultimately, it is between the GM and the players to decide how they'd like things in a given campaign. For myself, I play it both ways but generally at least one other person knows my heros SID to make things easier to get my hero into the swing of the episode.

[Tech]

Re: Secret Identities and Teammates

 

Sorry but I forgot to add: I never force players to reveal their Secret Identities..

 

(remembers a bad game from over ten years ago that I did that once and later had so many complaints that I announced that the episode never occurred)