How do you become a Jedi

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

In my campaign the characters were given the sabers they used as apprentices. Then when they had proven themselves sufficiently, in this case battle field experience replaced formal trials, Luke took their lightsabers and left then on a lonely planet to quest for the crystals needed to make their own.

The best part of this adventure was how clever the players got when they didn't have a lightsaber to rely on.

In a similar vein, how about a trial of survival where the padwan is left on a hostile planet with only his robes?

That makes a lot of sense, especially when you look at the original trilogy. Luke used his father's lightsaber until it was lost (along with the hand that held it) in Cloud City. When he next met Darth Vader, he had a new lightsaber, and Vader commented on its construction.

[Checkmate]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I actualy like the idea of the Sith not being evil per say' date=' but rather a different philosiphy, one that admitingly permits evil behavior, and that might even lend itself to it somewhat, but that being evil is not a requirement of it (Does that make sense?)[/quote']

I dislike this take on it. If you could be good and still use the dark side, why wouldn't everyone? It's been established that the Dark Side, while not more powerful is easier. I like the idea of the Dark Side corrupting the user, meaning you have to use the tougher light side.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I concur. Remember that at the end of The Phantom Menace' date=' Palpatine was standing in the middle of the enitre Jedi council, and they couldn't sense his strength with the Dark Side. [i']That's [/i]how powerful he was.

 

The Sith were all about power, and their thirst for it allowed them to accumulate it to a monstrous degree. Destroying the Sith dispersed the power and restored the balance.

 

Of course, without knowing the actual text of the prophecy, we may never know what was meant by restoring "balance to the Force." Perhaps if Yoda and the others had studied the prophecy more carefully, they could have prevented the annihilation of the Jedi and the fall of the Republic.

I agree that, having not seen the actual text of the prophecy, it is difficult to plumb its depths, but Prophecy is, as a rule, notoriously vague and open to interpretation. As a personal view, I always saw it as a thing of multiple levels:

 

1. Balancing the numbers of Sith and Jedi

This is fairly obvious.

 

2. Balancing the psyches of the individual force users

The Jedi and Sith are polar opposites at the extremes of behavioral science, and both are far from what would be expected from a normal, healthy member of society. The Jedi afraid of any emotional release, and the Sith seemingly requiring it, puts them both a half-step away from psychosis.

 

3. Achieving work/life balance for individual force users

The training for both sides makes them Type A personalities of the first order. They are never really "off duty." They would all benefit from some occasional "down-time" -- pursue a hobby, date a girl, spend time with their families.

 

4. Eliminating labels such as Lightside and Darkside, and allowing all force-users to access all of the force's abilities.

The games really show this more, with a player that walks the knife-edge between light and dark having a greater variety of force powers to choose from.

 

and, of course:

 

5. Balancing the checkbook of George Lucas.

 

 

 

And let's talk for a moment about how the potential for force use is propagated through the galaxy. Given the philosophies of the two groups, you would think that there would be an horde of force-weilding Sith relatives, while the number of ascetic Jedi monks dwindles to nothing in but a few generations. The Sith seem to be the most likely to breed, thus passing those qualities to their offspring (which we have seen in the movies does happen). Unless the Jedi force all young, female padawans to give birth from a Jedi Master father (note the mention of psychosis above), there is no opportunity for those qualities to continue. Unless the capability to use the force is really caused by some alien organism in the blood that randomly hijacks a person and gives them force powers:

 

"Hey Bob, why are your pens floating around the cubicle like that?"

 

"Dunno. I think I caught the Force at that party over the weekend. I think maybe Tracy gave it to me."

 

"You and Tracy? You Sith dawg!"

[Fresh Head]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Mmmmm. Difficult to see' date=' the Dark Side is...[/quote']

 

 

The cave...remember your failure at the cave.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

The cave...remember your failure at the cave.

[whiny] But I've learned so much since then!!! [/whiny]

[JmOz]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I dislike this take on it. If you could be good and still use the dark side' date=' why wouldn't everyone? It's been established that the Dark Side, while not more powerful is easier. I like the idea of the Dark Side corrupting the user, meaning you have to use the tougher light side.[/quote']

 

ahh but I did not mention the dark side, I mentioned the sith.

 

If I was to run a SW game, I think I would have at least two groups of Jedi, dark and light. The Jedi way would be about calm surrender to the Force

 

The Sith would be about Passion, by there philospihy there would be no dark or light side (thus making them corruptable by the dark side), just good and evil people. In theroy (and I would have a couple) you could have some that wre good people who used there passion as protectors. For that matter if I was using the EU I could easily see Leia going down the road of a Light Sith

[Checkmate]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I've thought about this too. Being a Jedi makes for a boring story. There can be no romantic interests, no children of Jedi etc. As someone mentioned earlier since the Force seems to be able to be passed on.

 

I still don't like the idea of 2 light side Jedi. If you could be passionate and still be good, why would you suppress your emotions, and take the harder path? It's much easier to be able to blow up and show love, hate, etc. than it is to suppress all emotions.

[Maur]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Or just play in the era after the destruction of the Jedi temple and those restrictions. The Jedi were nearly wiped out, most of those written about in the EU from after that time have families, lovers, wives/husbands, children, etc...

[Checkmate]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Exactly, because it makes a better story (and sells more books which is really all Georgie cares about), even if it flies in the face of what a Jedi is supposed to be.

[Xander75]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I feel that the Jedi Order's dying off, and Palpatine's rise to Emperor, was partially because the Jedi restricted themselves too much at the end. Yes, some Jedi could have families, but it took a maturity that wasn't common, since many people feel jealousy here and there. And we all know what that leads too....

 

As far as the Sith not being evil, that just doesn't fly. Lucas has always had it that Jedi are good (though a bit boring) and the Sith are evil (and much more fun). And Lucas has said that evil is punished in his universe. Thus, not only does evil fall to good, but evil falls to evil (like KotOR, Malak's treachery weakens the Sith, not stregthens them).

 

Just some ramblings from a blind cook.......

[Clonus]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

are evil (and much more fun). And Lucas has said that evil is punished in his universe. .

 

Yes but Lucas also said that Greedo shot first. Sometimes you've just got to ignore Lucas.

[rmccarty4]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Ladies & gentlemen, in the Star Wars movies, the Jedi are good, and the Sith are evil. The Light side is good, the Dark side is evil. Sith are not misunderstood, they're not "good from their own point of view", they're evil, and vile, and... evile. And that is the end of the story.

There's no post-modern moral relativism in Star Wars. There's no Manichean dualism. It's old fashioned morality. And in old fashioned morality, good is better than evil, and stronger than evil. Evil is glamorous and seductive, and also petty and self-defeating.

Think Golden Age or Silver Age comics. Think pulp sci-fi. Think movie serials. No gray areas. No complexity. Just good and evil. And the hero is on the side of good. And he wins. And you feel good about that.

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

 

Of course, it's your choice whether to maintain that worldview in your campaign, or whether you prefer to play in a campaign with that kind of worldview. But the movies are clear.

[Xander75]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Yes but Lucas also said that Greedo shot first. Sometimes you've just got to ignore Lucas.

 

Ignoring Lucas is almost my favorite pastime.

 

The whole Greedo shoots first thing was rediculous, how do you miss from that close?

[pinecone]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Ignoring Lucas is almost my favorite pastime.

 

The whole Greedo shoots first thing was rediculous, how do you miss from that close?

 

Solo rolled his Luck?

[Manic Typist]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Or it could have even been a warning shot.

 

But Han shot first, so it's moot.

[Checkmate]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Yes' date=' some Jedi could have families, but it took a maturity that wasn't common, since many people feel jealousy here and there. And we all know what that leads too....[/quote']

Actually they really couldn't...Well I suppose they could as long as they didn't love their wife and kids. Love leads to fear (of loss) which leads to the Dark Side.

[Clonus]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Ladies & gentlemen' date=' in the Star Wars movies, the Jedi are good, and the Sith are evil. r.[/quote']

 

Yeeeeah...I watched the prequels. So yes, the Sith are evil. The Jedi however...

[rmccarty4]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Love leads to fear (of loss) which leads to the Dark Side.

 

 

Love does not lead to fear of loss. Possessiveness leads to fear of loss, and fear leads to the Dark Side. Love != possessiveness.

I'd say that possessiveness leads to the Dark Side, shortcutting fear on that path, although I can't recall that appearing in any canon source, so treat that as just one balding white man's opinion.

 

If you want to say that being married exposes one to the temptation to be possessive (among other temptations), and exposing oneself to those temptations is incompatible with being a Jedi, fine.

[Checkmate]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

 

Love does not lead to fear of loss. Possessiveness leads to fear of loss, and fear leads to the Dark Side. Love != possessiveness.

I'd say that possessiveness leads to the Dark Side, shortcutting fear on that path, although I can't recall that appearing in any canon source, so treat that as just one balding white man's opinion.

 

If you want to say that being married exposes one to the temptation to be possessive (among other temptations), and exposing oneself to those temptations is incompatible with being a Jedi, fine.

So you don't care if the person you love dies? What would you do to keep the person you loved from dying? This has nothing to do with possessiveness, just human nature.

[rmccarty4]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

Moving over to Non-Gaming Discussions.

 

But I think this discussion implies a Trial of the Heart (or of Love, if you prefer) might be suitable to become a Jedi. I require time to think of a Trial of the Heart that doesn't involve intentional cruelty to an involved party.

Well, there should be enough opportunities in life over the training period of the Jedi for a clever Master to devise something for his/her Padawan. Parents, siblings, best friends, first crush on the Padawan hottie...

[PieMan]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I'd have a test of Justice or Compassion. Something to seperate the Jedi from the Sith' date=' anyway.[/quote']

Actually, Sith is not but a belief. Anyone who is skilled in the Force is a Jedi, for Jedi is a culture, a race, a civilization.

[LordGhee]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I beleive you are incorrect PieMan.

 

The Jedi are a group that reconizes that their are orthers that can use the force (the sith, people who do not make the cut to enter the temple). They never called the first sith anything but sith and desiribe him as skilled in the ways of the force.

 

Vader promoted Luke, "you are a Jedi now", reconizing that he not only used the force but also followed thier beliefs, traditiions and teachings.

 

Lord Ghee

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

A capable Jedi should be able to use and control their emotions, using them as a source of strength and power (yes, yes, just a minute) without losing their path.

 

Sith, on the other hand, use those emotions as a source of strength and power, but give free rein to them -- and are thus essentially letting their emotions control them. Anakin loves, but fears -- and, unable or unwilling to control his fear, pursues power. He lets his anger at a perceived betrayal dominate him, and inflicts grievous wounds on the one he most loved.

 

See my two comments here and here

about what makes someone a Jedi or Sith.

[Manic Typist]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

I believe the Sith were originally a race, who got wiped out. Or at least mostly.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: How do you become a Jedi

 

A capable Jedi should be able to use and control their emotions, using them as a source of strength and power (yes, yes, just a minute) without losing their path.

 

Sith, on the other hand, use those emotions as a source of strength and power, but give free rein to them -- and are thus essentially letting their emotions control them. Anakin loves, but fears -- and, unable or unwilling to control his fear, pursues power. He lets his anger at a perceived betrayal dominate him, and inflicts grievous wounds on the one he most loved.

 

See my two comments here and here

about what makes someone a Jedi or Sith.

 

Though I didn't like the prequels, I liked Samual Jackson as Mace Windu. I always got the impression that he was one step from going all Pulp Fiction in his fight scenes. He gave of this aura of tightly controlled anger, yet he was always in calm and cool.