Fromage?

[caris]

OK, I'm thinking about taking a character that has an END Reserve (that already has full life support), and making it so that all of his END using powers (including STR, Running and Swimming) draw from either the reserve or his personal END. No problem so far.

 

Potential cheese: I'm thinking about selling back the personal END to 0. Basically, I want the character to survive off the END Reserve, but still able to burn STUN.

 

What do you think too much cheese?

 

(I'm going to direct the GM to this post to get his official word.)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fromage?

 

Well... no not really. You'll be putting an Advantage on Powers to draw from END Reserve and STUN.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Fromage?

 

Tastes vaguely like Muenster. Kinda smelly, but some people really like that sort of thing. So long as the Reserve is properly limited/designed, and the concept goes with it, and you stay within the boundaries, I don't have a *huge* problem with it, other than an END Reserve is SILLY cheap. I don't know that I'd allow the selling back of Personal END; possibly just lim all the powers, "Must Run on END Reserve."

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Fromage?

 

OK, I'm thinking about taking a character that has an END Reserve (that already has full life support), and making it so that all of his END using powers (including STR, Running and Swimming) draw from either the reserve or his personal END. No problem so far.

 

Potential cheese: I'm thinking about selling back the personal END to 0. Basically, I want the character to survive off the END Reserve, but still able to burn STUN.

 

What do you think too much cheese?

 

(I'm going to direct the GM to this post to get his official word.)

 

I always have trouble with these when there's no concept behind it.

 

Taking this all together, the character will effectively:

 

- buy all his END at 1/10 instead of 1/2

 

- spend an extra 1 point per REC to be able to recover that END

 

- not lose his END or stop recovering it if knocked out

 

- not be able to recover END by taking a recovery during his phase

 

- pay a +1/4 advantage on all his END-using powers

 

I think the only reason I could conclude any of this is cheesy would be if I felt the END reserve was underpriced to begin with.

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

I don't know that I'd allow the selling back of Personal END

 

That is where my worry is as well.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Fromage?

 

What'st the limitation on the END reserve? If he's a battery powered cyborg, or some such, I guess I have no real problem with the concept. I've been noodling with a Victorian era gadgeteer/ magician with clockwork foci - they only recover END via manual winding, which takes time and a little concentration, and both hands. That's an END reserve wih some meaningful limitations. If it's just a workaround to get a boatload of END on the cheap, I smell cheese.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fromage?

 

If there's an AP Cap in the game, the Advantage will effectively lower the number of Dice you sling across the board for END using Powers. Sometimes that's enough to even the field. Sometimes not.

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

I always have trouble with these when there's no concept behind it.

 

The character is going through a mutation process. He is no longer a strictly biological being. He is partially energy now, and it is that energy which he absorbs around him that sustains his functionality.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Fromage?

 

If there's an AP Cap in the game' date=' the Advantage will effectively lower the number of Dice you sling across the board for END using Powers. Sometimes that's enough to even the field. Sometimes not.[/quote']

 

I submit that all of our powers combined can't make Captain Planet if we don't know what Captain Planet is supposed to be capable of (jokes about plot powers aside). What I mean is, "Who is this cat, and why is this question relevant to the success of the build?"

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

- not lose his END or stop recovering it if knocked out.

 

There is a thought, I may need to put a -0 Lim on the reserve so that it does go to zero if he is knocked out.

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

If there's an AP Cap in the game' date=' the Advantage will effectively lower the number of Dice you sling across the board for END using Powers. Sometimes that's enough to even the field. Sometimes not.[/quote']

 

Not really relavant. The character is already doing below average damage for the campaign, and will not be allowed to get up to average. Add the advantage to the existing abilities do not raise any of them to the existing AP Cap.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Fromage?

 

It's legal. If you aren't using the stat, might as well recoup the points from it. You only get to sell back 1 figured, but if you aren't selling back anything else go for it.

 

Unless your character as an extremely high CON you'll end up spending more points on making everything run off of alternate fuel or be 0 END than you'll recoup anyway.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Fromage?

 

In fact, here is a character that has done this very thing:

 

T.H.U.G.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Fromage?

 

There is a thought' date=' I may need to put a -0 Lim on the reserve so that it does go to zero if he is knocked out.[/quote']

If you do this, you probably shouldnt use an END Reserve at all and should just buy END as a Power with whatever Modifiers you like. It will simplify your build significantly.

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

Ok, a related question. If all the powers in a MP have a common Advantage, you can put the advantage on the pool, and it would be like a naked advantage that can be used in the MP. For example, 40 point pool with a +¼ Advantage would become 50 Active Points, but the individual slots would be restricte to a total 40 active points, but would have access to the +¼ Advantage and only cost 4 or 8 points per slot (assuming on Limitations).

 

Am I correct?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fromage?

 

Correct. With GM Permission of course.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Fromage?

 

None can pass without MY permission!

 

Then... can we have your permission?

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

Correct. With GM Permission of course.

 

You see, for the longest time I didn't get it, because I assumed the individule slots still had to account for the increased active cost. In my example, I was thinking that the Pool had gone up to 50 points, and each slot had to 5 or 10 points each.

[mattingly]

Re: Fromage?

 

I'd be okay with selling back END. The real cheese would be trying to put a Lim on REC that it only recovers STUN.

 

One thing, though, that the character would be giving up in my campaign, though, is the ability to Push. I don't allow that from END Reserves.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Fromage?

 

One thing' date=' though, that the character would be giving up in my campaign, though, is the ability to Push. I don't allow that from END Reserves.[/quote']I'd let him burn STUN to Push though, with the proviso that he had to eat the STUN damage first, and had to still be conscious and not Stunned in order to be able to use the Power he was trying to Push.

 

 

As a GM, I normally take a dim view of character building tricks that involve selling back END, simply from a game-world logic standpoint. ("Can you please explain to me why your Olympic-level athlete character has less stamina than a little old lady?") But I don't think the mechanics as you've described them are innately cheesy, and it sounds like you've got a solid game-world rationale behind it. Go forth and do good.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Fromage?

 

Ok, a related question. If all the powers in a MP have a common Advantage, you can put the advantage on the pool, and it would be like a naked advantage that can be used in the MP. For example, 40 point pool with a +¼ Advantage would become 50 Active Points, but the individual slots would be restricte to a total 40 active points, but would have access to the +¼ Advantage and only cost 4 or 8 points per slot (assuming on Limitations).

 

Am I correct?

 

Yes. I do this all the time; many of the characters w/ MP's on my site that Ive written up have this.

 

Applying it to the reserve and paying for it at the top, you basically ignore the difference on the slots.

 

Its streamlines builds nicely, and Im very permissive with it -- I even allow END reducing Advantages to be applied against the advice of the rule book.

 

Hero Designer does the math correctly for this innately. No fuss no muss.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Fromage?

 

Omlet du Fromage....

 

/Steve Martin

[concord]

Re: Fromage?

 

(I'm going to direct the GM to this post to get his official word.)

 

Mmmmmmm... real cheesy goodness...

 

just kidding...

 

I really don't have a problem with it so far... but do need to see the hdc sheet to get a final idea of the mechanics of the character as a whole...

 

Also, keep in mind item #3 from the Wardens campaign "basic guidelines for building characters"

 

"Be careful in your choice of powers and how they are constructed. That that you have will also be that of the adversary... and then some."

[nexus]

Re: Fromage?

 

A Drain or Suppress vs this character's End Reserve will mess him -real- quick.

 

As for it is cheesy or not, it's difficult for me to say without knowing the whys. Why does the character have no "natural" endurance?

[caris]

Re: Fromage?

 

A Drain or Suppress vs this character's End Reserve will mess him -real- quick.

 

Reread END Reserve, Adjustment Powers both positive and negative affect the END and Rec of the Reserve as they would the coresponding stat. So Draining 10 points of the End Reserve causes a lost of 20 END, not 100. Draining 10 points of the Rec will decrease it by 5, not 1.