Moving Hit Locations

[Thia Halmades]

So, I was going through the thread on "What are Vitals?" and I was discussing it with Jason last night, and we said two different things in the same language; i.e., we had the same idea and just applied it differently. And the question was:

 

In the use of a hit location table, is it possible to move where you land your strike?

 

Additionally.

 

Can you move where someone else struck you? In Communist Russia, target tells YOU where the hit lands.

 

How would you do that? So if I swing my HICCoS at say, Steve Long (because I may as well go big) and I strike Steve squarely in the 13, odds are Steve won't want to get hit in the 13. He'll want to move the location to something less painful, like the Arms.

 

Can he do this? What would the ability be/look like?

[Kdansky]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

DCV only to move hit location?

Penalty skill levels against stun multiplier?

Armor/DR only against hits in location X? (50% will make vitals one of the lesser deadly targets).

 

That's my brainstorming. I don't use hit locations, in my view it's another roll for no real gain. (Yeah, you can still call shots if you want)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

DCV only to move hit location?

Penalty skill levels against stun multiplier?

Armor/DR only against hits in location X? (50% will make vitals one of the lesser deadly targets).

 

That's my brainstorming. I don't use hit locations, in my view it's another roll for no real gain. (Yeah, you can still call shots if you want)

 

See, I'm not sure. I vaguely remember there being a rule about it, but farked if I know what or where it was. This is beef number three: Heroic Genre should have its own separate section, so I can find things like this swiftly and easily.

 

Armor/DR goes against the spirit of the thing; it's as much a "luck" effect as anything else. The concept isn't that you have extra armor, it's that you can "deflect" an attack, move yourself in such a way as to alter a hit location, etc.

 

And the big question, could you do it with a held action? I'd probably allow someone to abort to it if they really wanted. Maybe I'll adjust the block rules (or use something similar). Hrm. Hrm hrm hrm.

[Kdansky]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Luck? Fudge opponent's dice rolls?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Luck would certainly have a valid line on this concept. Good point.

[tancred]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

The closest I can remember to a rule on this was Interposing, whereby you take the hit for someone else.

Seems like there was a comment somewhere about deciding where you would take the hit.

 

Have to look that up again, to see what it actually said.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I'm not aware of any rule in Hero that alows you to 'move' hit locations and, by and large, I assume that is because you can already AIM for hit locations.

 

If you wanted a rule, then you'd might need to do a bit of tinkering, because you get very high and very low damage locations next to each other in Hero. This may be good for you, or it may not*. The simplest way to do it is simply to say that for each X points you succeed in your roll to hit then you can move the hit location away from the rolled target to another one.

 

If you want to be able (as a defender) to do that, I'd house rule a maneouvre: seomthing like roll with punch: it is an abort action rolled after you have been hit and hit location rolled (and adjusted as above, if desired), but before damage.

 

You roll OCV against the OCV of your opponent PENALISED by th enumber of points the atatcker made the roll by BUT not counting any points he's already used to move the hit location as above.

 

For each X points you succeed by you can add or subtract 1 from the hit location.

 

So, for example, two characters, both OCV/DCV 6. X, in this instance, is 2. Attacker rolls a hit with a roll of 8, succeeding by 3 points and rolls a 14 for hit location - thigh. Because he has succeded by at least 2 points he can move the hit location, and he does - by 1 to the vitals, leaving one point of success unused.

 

The opponent aborts to the as yet unnamed maneouvre, and makes a straight OCV v OCV (like a block) penalised by the amount his opponent made the roll by; the roll was made by 3 BUT 2 of those points were used to move the hit location already, so don't count. He needs to roll and succeed by at least (2+1) = 3 points therefore to move the hit location to the thigh (or the stomach if that is more beneficial). If the original roll had not already been used to move hit location he would have needed to succeed by at least 5 points to move hit location.

 

This is off the top of my head but sounds like it could work.

 

 

*You might use different hit location tables or entire systems depending ont eh sort of combat; for a sword duel imagine that you use the following hit location table instead (you don't actually roll hit location it is entirely determined by the roll to hit):

 

0 Hand

1 Foot

2 Arm

3 Leg

4 Thigh

5 Shoulder

6 Chest

7 Stomach

8 Vitals

9 Head

 

The number is the number you succed in the roll to hit by, so a 'better' hit, allows a more vital area to be hit. Use the 'avoiding' rule from above too. Each full turn of combat (or alternatively each point of Body you've taken or each wound you've suffered) you add 1 to the number after the roll to hit (the person taking the hit can always voluntarily INCREASE the hit location number - taking a hit to a more vital area but one that might be better protected, or less likely to be impaired or disabled). This simulates duels that go on for some time with minor nicks and cuts but end in a strike to a vital area.

 

Gunfire is probably more like this:

 

0 Chest

1 Stomach

2 Shoulders

3 Arms

4 Vitals

5 Thighs

6 Arms

7 Legs

8 Head

9 Feet

 

The reason for this is that gunfire probably is most likely to hit the centre of mass and less likely to hit extremities.

 

I'm making this all up though, so who knows? You might even want situational hit location tables...Hmmm, RoleMaster, anyone?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Or; commit so many points of your DCV CSLs to an abort, and if you know you're going to get tagged, expend those DCV CSLs to shuffle the hit location up or down. Similarly, you have, say +5 total OCV; I spend 3 OCV to tag you, and the other two I "hold" to move my roll on the HLT as necessary.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I would assume that Steve is already somewhat relutant to be hit by an ice cream cone, well, anywhere, and is, in fact, at any given moment attempting to prevent it from smiting him at any point on his body, including the 13.

 

The fact that you struck him there merely means he failed.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I would assume that Steve is already somewhat relutant to be hit by an ice cream cone, well, anywhere, and is, in fact, at any given moment attempting to prevent it from smiting him at any point on his body, including the 13.

 

The fact that you struck him there merely means he failed.

 

I may just HR it, but everything else can be defended against; why not this? I may NOT HR it, either, but I swear I remember a rule somewhere, dammit, that allowed you to adjust your hit location.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I may just HR it' date=' but everything else can be defended against; why not this? I may NOT HR it, either, but I [i']swear[/i] I remember a rule somewhere, dammit, that allowed you to adjust your hit location.

 

You're probably remembering the Adjustable Hit Location option from DC, pg 185, but it's all attacker side mechanically. I'm not aware of any options for moving hit locations defensively currently in the system.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

You're probably remembering the Adjustable Hit Location option from DC' date=' pg 185, but it's all attacker side mechanically. I'm not aware of any options for moving hit locations defensively currently in the system.[/quote']

 

AHA!

 

If you were a chick I'd kiss you.

 

Okay. I have standards. If you were a CUTE chick I'd kiss you.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Who am I kidding? Me? Standards?

 

Look where I spend my time.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I may just HR it' date=' but everything else can be defended against; why not this? I may NOT HR it, either, but I [i']swear[/i] I remember a rule somewhere, dammit, that allowed you to adjust your hit location.

 

That can be defended against already. It's called not getting hit.

 

Or +50 hardened PD Armor, only covers location 13, IIF Adamantium Athletic Supporter.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Isn't there a thing in Valdorian Age where they use Luck to alter the hit location? I believe it's called "Not in the face!"

[pinecone]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

So' date=' I was going through the thread on "What are Vitals?" and I was discussing it with Jason last night, and we said two different things in the same language; i.e., we had the same idea and just applied it differently. And the question was:

 

In the use of a hit location table, is it possible to move where you land your strike?

 

Additionally.

 

Can you move where someone else struck you? In Communist Russia, target tells YOU where the hit lands.

 

How would you do that? So if I swing my HICCoS at say, Steve Long (because I may as well go big) and I strike Steve squarely in the 13, odds are Steve won't want to get hit in the 13. He'll want to move the location to something less painful, like the Arms.

 

Can he do this? What would the ability be/look like?

Umm like a Block? And if you are using a weapon I'd be so mean as to have him take damage to the thing he done blocked with...(Hand, wrist, forearm, leg etc....)

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Maybe use the Hero Action Points system in Pulp Hero to allow moving Hit Locations by one on the chart for each HAP spent?

[JmOz]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

From a mechanical POV, I think the easiest way would be to buy Damage Reduction, at 75% off you turn a x4 stun into a x1, depending on gulability of the GM a lim to make it work quite right may be in order (Greater effect on stun than body as per chart...)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

If you are looking for house rule suggestions you could create a Skill or Talent that either uses a rolling mechanic like Breakfall or just plain works like Defense Maneuver or Combat Luck. The result in either case would be to convert Hit Location randomness to general damage or in the case of Killing Damage to a Standard Effect Stun Multiplier. 3-5 Points seems about right for the cost.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

If you are looking for house rule suggestions you could create a Skill or Talent that either uses a rolling mechanic like Breakfall or just plain works like Defense Maneuver or Combat Luck. The result in either case would be to convert Hit Location randomness to general damage or in the case of Killing Damage to a Standard Effect Stun Multiplier. 3-5 Points seems about right for the cost.

 

That ALSO seems like a good idea. Thanks, Hyper Smurf.

[casualplayer]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

Often the superheroic "talk to the hand" defense of catching the attack on the palm is just SFX for a Block/Missile Deflection. Maybe there should be lesser degrees of success with Block/MD, a new related manuever or an adder? Turn Into the Blow?

[Mike W]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I seem to remember reading in the Ultimate Martial Artist a mechanic where you could dedicate OCV levels to adjust the hit location. I don't remember there being a defensive option, but I suppose you could do something similar. At that point, you would have to compare the two and take the net difference. E.G. Attacker assigns 2 levels and Defender assigns 1 so attacker gets to modify the hit location roll by 1.

[Alibear]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

We have a maneuver for this already, it's called 'roll with the blow' isn't it?

 

You're taking a hit and you decide to try and 'cover up' and take less damage. It's what we're talking about here isn't it?

 

Just sfx it that Steve sticks his arms up to cover his body from you're blows.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

We have a maneuver for this already, it's called 'roll with the blow' isn't it?

 

You're taking a hit and you decide to try and 'cover up' and take less damage. It's what we're talking about here isn't it?

 

Just sfx it that Steve sticks his arms up to cover his body from you're blows.

 

That's a different effect than described by the original poster.

 

Roll With A Punch (see: 396 _ Combat And Adventuring Hero System 5th Edition, Revised).

 

RWAP works whether or not the campaign uses Hit Location rules.

 

Some campaigns that DO use Hit Locations have characters built specifically to take advantage of that fact (they have extra CSL's only usable vs. them).

 

My earlier proposed custom maneuver/skill/Talent* would only be useful in such a campaign and would have the greatest effect vs. such characters. It also would not have any of the drawbacks that RWAP imposes (like x2 KB). If built as something similar to or as an add-on to Defense Maneuver it might not actually take any time to work (that is; it's not a combat maneuver). It also does not have to cost points. It could certainly be introduced as an 'everyman' optional maneuver with other built in drawbacks if a GM wanted to as well.

 

* I just thought of a good name: Brace For Impact!

This is based on making this a skill that either works stand alone or stacks with Defense Maneuver. So, like Defense Maneuver I-III, it normally takes a 1/2 Phase action. If the character has Defense Maneuver IV as well then Brace For Impact takes no extra time (its effects are persistent vs. perceived attacks).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Moving Hit Locations

 

I think rolling with punch could work well, not as an 'absolute' move hit location, but as a special effect. Doesn't work ideally with disable/impair, but then again such effects are much less likely if you manage to roll with it.

 

I'm kinda against the idea of being able to shift hit locations using the overall framework of hit allocation in Hero: that is not really how it works, mechanically. Theoretically if you can shift hit location, then you can shift it to somewhere outside the body silhouette i.e. somewhere it misses completely.

 

If you want Hit location shifting, my thought on it is that you should probably change your hit location table, so that 'vital' areas are at one end (i.e. increased damage locations) and non-vital areas at the other. Something like this:

 

-6 or more MISS

-5 Feet

-4 Hands

-3 Legs

-2 Arms

-1 Thighs

0 Shoulders

+1 Chest

+2 Stomach

+3 Vitals

+4 Head

 

Then you start at zero (assume a shoulder hit, absent any other factor), add the amount you succeeded by in your roll to hit. After the hit, the opponent can abort to a manoeuvre that works like this: OCV v OCV, like a block. Every success reduces the hit location by 1. If you do REALLY well, you can convert a hit into a miss. If you blow this roll you can actually IMPROVE an opponent's hit.