Low-Action Hero?

[bcaplan]

What is the least action-packed Hero (or other RPG) game you have ever GMd or played-in? Has anyone ever done a violence-free (or almost violence-free) RPG inspired by, say, The Office, Seinfeld, Desperate Housewives, or Arrested Development?

 

My sense of pacing keeps telling me that violence-free RPGs just can't work. You need to have at least one violent confrontation every 3 hours - and a bloody climax - to make the story work. The only exception I've experienced is Pandemonium, where "getting the story" satisfyingly replaces combat.

 

At the same time, Hero's generic system keeps inspiring me to question my preconceptions about what kind of an RPG can work. For example, a recent one-shot Horror Hero game that I ran convinced me that an RPG with mundane PCs can be a great success.

 

Anyone care to share his experiences?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

I've no direct experience with this, but I would like to mention that Steve once commented that he was toying with the idea of doing a compilation book with mini-genres such as Sitcom Hero and Cave Hero.

 

I, too, would like to see that book in print (though personally I'm far from certain that the market is ready for it at this time).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

While I've never been in a completely violence free game... the idea that a violent confrontation must occur every 3 hours has not held true. I've been in games where we can go 4-6 sessions without violence. Some of these sessions have been 6 hours or more.

 

Now, confrontation is different. To be sure the sessions had some kind of encounter, confrontation or other aspect that closed some doors, opened others, and moved the story along.

 

But you certainly don't need to break out the battle map every three hours.

[tkdguy]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

I've run a few game sessions that didn't have combat in them. They were mostly about survival in the wild or social interactions. It is theoretically possible to run entire campaigns that exclude or minimize violence, but it depends on whether the group would want that.

 

LARP games would probably be the best-suited for this. I never played in a LARP session, but I suspect combat is better off without combat. If you're looking for tabletop rpgs, the Castle Falkenstein game would be a good choice. The Star Trek games (especially when set in the TNG era) would also work if your players don't mind not having starship combat.

 

Edit: HERO would also work. Just play competent normals with a lot of noncombat skills.

[jtelson]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

I've run a lot of episodic horror. It tends to be very research and interaction heavy without much combat (Since in a standup fight between normals and the monster of the week, the normals aren't going to fare well.) So weeks would go by without combat.

 

The combat lightest Champions campaign I've run was The Psi-Lords of Metro City which was investigation/conspiracy driven. That would easily go 3 or 4 sessions without a battle.

 

I would say that ultimately action isn't reliant on combat. Combat's just one tool in the box; Interaction, Investigation and Obstacle Resolution can all make a game action packed without there ever being a shot fired.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

One of the best games I've played in had confrontations and conflict, but no real violence. The game was played entirely for laughs and was called Teenagers From Outer Space. It runs a simplified Interlok system based on d6 where characters have a Bonk rating that can be reduced by things like surprises, embarassment, overly revealing battle bikinis, jealous girlfriends with mystical mallets, etc. The rule went that once a character was "bonked out" he was out of the scene until it ended. In general, if it was funny, it was allowed.

 

Matt "Mike-Pondsmith-fanboy" Frisbee

[Doc]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

First, I'm happy someone had the idea to talk about this, 'cause I have been thinking about this for a couple of months, or maybe years, without finding some definitive answers. Cheers and repped, bcaplan.

 

My point is, even though I occured to have violence free sessions like you, guys, I never found a system or a way to play a system wich could define social, psychological, etc, etc, interactions/confrontations as well as combat. A violence free session is nearly a die rolling free session, too. It's not a bad thing per see, but I feel there is something lacking in this, like there is a real effort to detail combat, but not the rest.

 

I often thought to GM a game with psychic powers a way that psychic confrontations could not be considered combat (no body damage, etc), like ruining somebody's reputation being an objective. Well, I don't really know the hole psychic system for Hero, but I feel it is also very combat oriented...

 

Well, hope I'm not bugging you with this, 'cause I'm not really sure where I'm going with it. Anyway, let's just say that I'm interested in a violent free campaign, but never managed to find a way to make it as "interesting" or breathtaking as a violent one.

[jtelson]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

First, I'm happy someone had the idea to talk about this, 'cause I have been thinking about this for a couple of months, or maybe years, without finding some definitive answers. Cheers and repped, bcaplan.

 

My point is, even though I occured to have violence free sessions like you, guys, I never found a system or a way to play a system wich could define social, psychological, etc, etc, interactions/confrontations as well as combat. A violence free session is nearly a die rolling free session, too. It's not a bad thing per see, but I feel there is something lacking in this, like there is a real effort to detail combat, but not the rest.

 

I often thought to GM a game with psychic powers a way that psychic confrontations could not be considered combat (no body damage, etc), like ruining somebody's reputation being an objective. Well, I don't really know the hole psychic system for Hero, but I feel it is also very combat oriented...

 

Well, hope I'm not bugging you with this, 'cause I'm not really sure where I'm going with it. Anyway, let's just say that I'm interested in a violent free campaign, but never managed to find a way to make it as "interesting" or breathtaking as a violent one.

 

I don't think it would be very difficult to adapt Hero to include Social Combat (PRE determines your Social Combat Value, put together some basic social combat maneuvers, add social martial arts maneuvers). Someone may have already done so.

 

This other uses for fudge fu article points in that direction for fudge, it might inform someone who wanted to go in that direction for any number of conflicts.

 

http://www.fudgefactor.org/2006/01/other-uses-for-fudge-fu.html

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

My Vampire campaign was on many days purely political; all the dice that hit the table were for social confrontations. While there were "action scenes" there was no direct combat (it was still a dramatic reality). And while I was in college a cat ran a violence free Werewolf campaign, which was about the most annoying thing ever.

 

I'm a big bad werewolf!

Look! We're doing community service!

Wait, WTF?!

 

I hated that game.

[jtelson]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Requiem for Rome for the NWoD has about 12 pages on Debate including 'Manuevers' like Humiliating Attack and Defensive Argument. It's interesting and worth taking a look at if you get the opportunity.

[bcaplan]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

My point is' date=' even though I occured to have violence free sessions like you, guys, I never found a system or a way to play a system wich could define social, psychological, etc, etc, interactions/confrontations as well as combat. A violence free session is nearly a die rolling free session, too.[/quote']

I find that in a low-violence mystery-solving game like Pandaemonium, skill checks, and inventive use of powers (and past lives!) keep an RPG from feeling like mere improv. I think other investigation-theme skill-based games could avoid the problem you describe, too.

 

But as you suggest, a game based almost solely on personal interaction is a lot harder. Either you leave the GM the discretion to role-play NPCs as he sees fit - which can make the players feel disenfranchised, or you effectively turn Persuasion into Mind Control, which has problems of its own.

[Doc]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

I don't think Hero System has a problem allowing this kind of game. I think every system has a problem with it.

 

There is a huge difference between the intensity and effort we put in describing combat and the rest of the game. A single combat may take several hours of game play and, if it is well managed, without the players ever becoming bored of it. I cannot find how I could get players enjoying several hours of, for instance, lock picking skill roles, even though I can prepare a lock so full of traps and counter measures it becomes sort of a character...

 

Look at the Hero System rulebook (wich, by the way, I consider the ultimate roleplaying system ever), nearly half of it covers combat and powers. Powers may not be used in combat, but most of them are combat oriented...

 

Moreover, searching and inquiring, though they are very interesting genres of game play, aren't fit for anything or any kind of players and are somewhat limited in all the possibilities of gaming.

 

I often thought about "social combat" rules (I participated in the thread concerning this), but I feel it is not really what I am searching for. Maybe it's just one piece of a larger set of "non combat extended rules"... Maybe not; I don't know.

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Try a kinda Horror Hero type campaign, based on a group of paranormal investigators

work as a team for a University. Maybe all the players are either normals with skills

and a few might have 6th Sense type abilities/powers that are very low strength.

 

That might be fun to try!

 

Penn

[Doc]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Try a kinda Horror Hero type campaign, based on a group of paranormal investigators

work as a team for a University. Maybe all the players are either normals with skills

and a few might have 6th Sense type abilities/powers that are very low strength.

 

That might be fun to try!

 

Penn

 

I hope so, 'cause my DM is preparing such a game right now!

[AdamLeisemann]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

One of the best games I've played in had confrontations and conflict, but no real violence. The game was played entirely for laughs and was called Teenagers From Outer Space. It runs a simplified Interlok system based on d6 where characters have a Bonk rating that can be reduced by things like surprises, embarassment, overly revealing battle bikinis, jealous girlfriends with mystical mallets, etc. The rule went that once a character was "bonked out" he was out of the scene until it ended. In general, if it was funny, it was allowed.

 

Matt "Mike-Pondsmith-fanboy" Frisbee

 

Still one of my favorite RPGs to this very day.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Try a kinda Horror Hero type campaign, based on a group of paranormal investigators work as a team for a University. Maybe all the players are either normals with skills and a few might have 6th Sense type abilities/powers that are very low strength.

 

That might be fun to try!

 

Penn

 

Actually, it works great (said the Ravenloft DM). Horror works best when you place normal people into paranormal situations. One of my hard & fast rules of world design is, simply, "The PCs have the power to affect change." They alter plotlines, they're involved, the whole bit. When that power is taken away from them -- when they neither understand nor can affect a change -- they tend to flip out a little bit.

 

If I were to redo those characters in HERO, they'd be 50+50. I mean they were normals, and were intended to be. I would have likely ramped up their XP faster than I would in games where they started 125+100 or some such, but generally, that's what they would have gotten.

[Ranxerox]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Do you want low-action as the title indicates or just low-combat? Because it is possible to make some very compelling man vs. environment scenarios that have a lot of action but no combat. Put the characters out in the wilderness or on a hostile without the survival gear they need, and you can focus all of the player's problem solving skills and ingenuity on the task at hand to the benefit of the game.

[Peregrine]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Actually' date=' it works great (said the [i']Ravenloft[/i] DM). Horror works best when you place normal people into paranormal situations. One of my hard & fast rules of world design is, simply, "The PCs have the power to affect change." They alter plotlines, they're involved, the whole bit. When that power is taken away from them -- when they neither understand nor can affect a change -- they tend to flip out a little bit.

 

 

You have just perfectly summarized why I hate horror gaming. Rep.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

You have just perfectly summarized why I hate horror gaming. Rep.

 

Really, you have to know, going in, that I'm going to take away your "power" as a player; you lose, to some extent, the special PC glow that protects you from critical harm. Horror gaming, done correctly, provides a moment of frission that you simply cannot get in any other genre. A level of terror that you can't replicate. I love it for that reason, and I don't have "piles of dead character sheets" or anything like that, but I have scared the unholy hell out of all of my players, and that's something in which I take tremendous pride.

[Peregrine]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Really' date=' you have to know, going in, that I'm going to take away your "power" as a player; you lose, to some extent, the special PC glow that protects you from critical harm. Horror gaming, done correctly, provides a moment of frission that you simply cannot get in any other genre. A level of terror that you can't replicate. I love it for that reason, and I don't have "piles of dead character sheets" or anything like that, but I have scared the unholy hell out of all of my players, and that's something in which I take tremendous pride.[/quote']

 

I fully agree that "knowing going in" is the only way to do it; "bait-and-switch" is a table-flipping offense for me. But, if I am told going in, I won't go in. And that's just a matter of personal preference. De gustibus non est disputandum, YMMV, etc.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

I fully agree that "knowing going in" is the only way to do it; "bait-and-switch" is a table-flipping offense for me. But' date=' if I [i']am [/i]told going in, I won't go in. And that's just a matter of personal preference. De gustibus non est disputandum, YMMV, etc.

 

I would never (well, okay, very rarely) say someone is "wrong" for not liking something, but bear in mind that I would never subject myself to this sort of nerve-wracking punishment. I just inflict it on people.

[clsage]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

One of the best games I've played in had confrontations and conflict, but no real violence. The game was played entirely for laughs and was called Teenagers From Outer Space. It runs a simplified Interlok system based on d6 where characters have a Bonk rating that can be reduced by things like surprises, embarassment, overly revealing battle bikinis, jealous girlfriends with mystical mallets, etc. The rule went that once a character was "bonked out" he was out of the scene until it ended. In general, if it was funny, it was allowed.

 

Matt "Mike-Pondsmith-fanboy" Frisbee

 

That sounds a bit like the 'falling down rule' from TOON!. Where, for example,

if you had an anvil dropped on you, you would 'fall down' for 3 minutes (or so,

I don't have the rules at hand) of real time, basically taking you out of the

action. That and being "Boggled" were two of my favorite parts of that

system.

 

-Carl-

[Doc]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

Bear in mind that I would never subject myself to this sort of nerve-wracking punishment. I just inflict it on people.

 

Come on, Thia...

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Low-Action Hero?

 

One of my hard & fast rules of world design is, simply, "The PCs have the power to affect change." They alter plotlines, they're involved, the whole bit. When that power is taken away from them -- when they neither understand nor can affect a change -- they tend to flip out a little bit.

 

quote]

 

Yeah, see, Real Life is a place where I neither understand nor can affect a change. I roleplay to get away from that.