YOUR RL Skills

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I always knew Certified was a bit batty...

 

 

Thank you

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Ayup.

 

For skills, I use 8- as "Hobby / Has Studied", 11- as "Can make a living", 13- as "Notably Skilled", 15- as "Expert", and 16+ as "Elite". I've seen numbers all over the place for the same levels. I don't argue over the cosmic precision of that scale; in play, those numbers work well enough to simulate what I intend them to simulate, and that's good enough.

 

Those are good benchmarks, agree 100%.

 

A serious amateur power lifter might have dragged himself up to a 14+ STR,

 

I'd venture to disagree on the STR. It's the only stat that has a concrete real world benchmark. Remember, Hero STR is a deadlift. I know darn few adult males who can't easily do 100kg. Now, this doesn't translate well to overall STR, because between those same guys, you'll have a lot of variance in upper body strength that the rules can't cover, really. I'd say most adult males easily fall into a 10 STR, with a 13 STR being pretty common for fit/athletic guys.

 

Even though this thread isn't about building a normal*, there are definitely some good ideas being tossed around here. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

 

 

*Entirely my fault for phrasing the subject the way I did, though.

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'd venture to disagree on the STR. It's the only stat that has a concrete real world benchmark. Remember, Hero STR is a deadlift. I know darn few adult males who can't easily do 100kg. Now, this doesn't translate well to overall STR, because between those same guys, you'll have a lot of variance in upper body strength that the rules can't cover, really. I'd say most adult males easily fall into a 10 STR, with a 13 STR being pretty common for fit/athletic guys.

 

Note that the "8" average covers adult men and women, and that your Deadlift is actually 90% of your max lift according to TUB.

 

Here are actual deadlifting standards from "Practical Programming" by Kilgore, Rippetoe, and Pendlay:

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

Adult Men:

 

Body Weight: 114 Un Trained: 97 Novice: 179 Intermediate: 204 Advanced: 299 Elite: 387

123 105 194 222 320 414

132 113 209 239 342 438

148 126 234 269 380 482

165 137 254 293 411 518

181 148 274 315 438 548

198 156 289 333 457 567

220 164 305 351 479 586

242 172 318 363 490 596

275 176 326 373 499 602

319 180 333 381 506 608

320+ 183 340 388 512 617

 

Adult Women:

 

Body Weight: 97 Un-trained: 57 Novice: 105 Intermediate: 122 Advanced: 175 Elite: 232

105 61 114 132 189 242

114 66 122 142 200 253

123 70 129 151 211 263

132 74 137 159 220 273

148 81 151 176 241 295

165 88 162 189 258 319

181 94 174 204 273 329

198 101 187 217 284 349

199+ 107 197 229 297 364

 

Note that properly, especially in Power Lifting, Olympic Lifting, and Strongman training, there are quite a few Super-elites out there, people who can break the 1000 pound barrier in the Deadlift.

 

So, an Average sedentary adult male would, at 148 pounds, be expected to have a 1rm in the Deadlift of 126 pounds. Give him even novice level training and he jumps up to 234 pounds, and there are lots of men who get to that stage; however, it's not a majority by a long shot. Less than 1% of lifters ever make it to Elite status, and maybe 1/5th of 1% get to the Super Elite levels needed to win in top competitions.

 

Mister 14 STR is doing pretty well, and has been training regularly for three or more years. Most lifters quit after a year or two.

 

There are of course natural exceptions, people who do hard physical labor, etc.

 

For (endless) babble on this subject, feel free to check out my blog for links.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Great info, Oddhat.

 

I guess my idea of "average" is more along the lines of someone larger than 148lbs. I was 172-176 in my prime, and knew about as many guys who were larger than me as smaller, so I was taking that as my "average." I could well be wrong, there.

 

I only have myself, really, as a reference. I was in pretty decent shape in my senior year of high school, and when I joined the Army, but by no means buff. At 172 lbs, I could deadlift a bit over 300 with a bit of effort. That would put me at Intermediate on the chart, which I'm not sure I'd rate. I knew plenty of guys who just hit the gym regularly who could do more weight. Heck, I knew a few guys who could bench a lot more than I could deadlift.

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Great info, Oddhat.

 

I guess my idea of "average" is more along the lines of someone larger than 148lbs. I was 172-176 in my prime, and knew about as many guys who were larger than me as smaller, so I was taking that as my "average." I could well be wrong, there.

 

I only have myself, really, as a reference. I was in pretty decent shape in my senior year of high school, and when I joined the Army, but by no means buff. At 172 lbs, I could deadlift a bit over 300 with a bit of effort. That would put me at Intermediate on the chart, which I'm not sure I'd rate. I knew plenty of guys who just hit the gym regularly who could do more weight. Heck, I knew a few guys who could bench a lot more than I could deadlift.

 

Most of us tend to judge "average" by ourselves. See my sig.

 

So, when you were 172 pounds, young, and fit enough to get into the army, with a little weight lifting under your belt, you had a STR of about 12-13. That's good.

 

It also fits my guidelines for building normals. In an office job, you would have been the strong kid people asked to carry boxes or help move the copying machine. Compared to the average, you were Noticeably strong. Most Americans don't play sports, exercise, or do much physical labor; their Average STR is fairly low. The CU uses 8, and I don't see that as a bad call. Looking at the Untrained section of the chart from Practical Programming, and based on my own experience training sedentary people, it seems pretty accurate. Compared to a bunch of weight lifting guys, you didn't feel particularly strong, and you weren't. The Advanced guys in the gym close to your weight were pulling about 40% or better more than you were, and if you were working out with a couple of Elite lifters in the same gym you might have felt pretty humble. Still, those were not Average males in terms of Strength; the best weren't even Average hobbyists.

 

I've trained with a lifter who pulled over 900 pounds in competition. Great guy, funny, and a sci fi geek, but I wouldn't class him as Average by a long shot.

 

I tend to look at other characteristics the same way. I work with people who speak several languages and hold PhDs; their raw intelligence is pretty impressive, and if I were writing them up I'd reflect that in their stats and skills. In one or two cases, I might even consider assigning an INT of 16 or higher. On the other hand, the average person I work with isn't much of a learner, observer or thinker, whatever their other qualities might be. For them, an INT of 8-11 seems about right.

 

YMMV, as always. Stats other than STR are pretty subjective areas in HERO, and STR itself isn't that good at reflecting the realities of lifting, throwing, jumping, or striking. It is, however, good enough for gaming purposes.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm a professional illustrator and graphic designer who's won more than one art competition and once had a drawing hang in Congress for a year, so I'd feel fairly comfortable giving myself a 14- in PS: Illustration and either a 13- or 14- in PS: Graphic Design. Fact-checking and photo research on a professional level might earn me a PS: Researcher of 12-. Stealth would be maybe 12- or even 13-, as I move quietly, startle people all the time and am frequently the guy people don't even notice in the room. Other than that, it'd be miscellaneous Knowledge and Science skills at the 8- or 11- level. (Well, maybe a 12- for Mythology. Handy if I get one of those empowered-by-the-gods origin stories.)

 

I'd give myself maybe 2 general ranged combat skill levels and an extra +1 with the longbow, but that'd be mostly to reflect above average aim while compensating for a DEX of 8 or even 7. Not terrible graceful on my feet here even if I don't make much noise.

 

I don't darken the gym door often enough to have a consistent measure of my strength, but I can pick up my 200 lb. dad with some difficulty, and cart 70 to 100 lb. boxes around the office without panting. On the other hand, when I helped carry a 400 lb. hospital bed a couple of years ago and briefly ended up supporting most of the weight as we lowered it, it felt like my kidneys were going to squirt out my back.

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm a professional illustrator and graphic designer who's won more than one art competition and once had a drawing hang in Congress for a year' date=' so I'd feel fairly comfortable giving myself a 14- in PS: Illustration and either a 13- or 14- in PS: Graphic Design.[/quote']

 

Maybe my numbers are off but doesn't this seem like it should be a bit higher to anyone else?

[Shaft]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

HERO Board member package:

 

I respectfully submit that most of the people on thiws board qualify for having a 13-15 INT, giving a base of 12- for the numerous INT based skills out there. I also submiot that quite a few of us have English at 5 pts rather than the typical 4 pts that most native speakers have.

 

I also think that given that this is a computer chat room, most of us are capable of using a computer, meaning we have Systems Operation or Computer Programming at 8-. Many of us are in IT, so where appropriate, bump it up to the 3 point level.

 

Those of us with Bachelor's Degrees or Technical Certifications in a trade can take the appropriate KS, PS and/or SS. In many cases we will have a PS and a KS, or a PS and SS, or SS and KS or some combination of the two or three that let's us compliment our skills.

 

For martial arts, officially, 10 pts of manueuvers means you have the equivalent of a black belt. My understanding is that to maintain your proficiency, you should be training at least three times a week, otherwsie those skills degrade fast. That Martial Arts training also tends to build up your STR, DEX and CON. In fact, physical training (going to the gym, playing sports, or the like) will edge your physical stats up as well. Maybe a good guideline is that for every 30 minutes you spend training in a given week, you can assign yourself a point in a stat that is relevant: for example, running 30 minutes six times a week (total 3 hours/week) can build up your CON to 13. Pumping weights for an hour every week might justify you having a 12 STR and the like. This is totally not scientific, but it might help people second guess their abilities less and quanitify what it takes to get even minimally effective mook-level stats in Champions terms.

 

Most of us have TF: ground vehicles.

 

Those of us who have a dog might have a fam with animal handling: canine. Those of us who have cats know that we do not.

 

Breakfall is one of the first skills taught in most martial arts classes- the softer ones like judo at least. Odds are that even if you stop trainign, you walk away with a fam in it.

 

Anyone who'se had to apply for a Driver's license, fill out a tax form, sign themselves or their kids up for school, check a relative into a hospital, get a mortgage or register a firearm has the fam with Bureaucratics.

 

Most gamers might have fam with Criminology in the sense that we've watched enough crime TV and planned enough crimes in game to get an idea of the basics. While we might not have the formal skills ot conduct a crime scene invesitgation, we probably know how fingerprints, DNA, hair, blood, clothing fibres and the like can incriminate someone.

 

Most us might be familiar with enough Cryptography to do simple substitution ciphers and basic codes. Does that qualify as a fam? I'd say yes.

 

I suspect that those of us who have made detailed costumes for a Con might have a fam with Disguise. Knowing how to make yourself look like a Klingon or an anime character might have some skills that roll over when you're just trying to conceal your appearance.

 

Most of us who have done enough army training to use a map and compass effectively would have land navigation. I assume that our brothers and sisters in the navy and air force have the equivalent skills for their respective domains.

 

The fam with paramedics is an everyman skill qaccording to the book. I don't disagree with this. If you recertify every year with basic first aid, you can probably make a case that your skill is at 11-. If you are a trained paramedic, doctor or the like, the professional boards probably require you to have a skill level of 12- or higher, plus some kind of complimentary skill to edge you up a little.

 

The full Streetwise skill at 11- or so might be appropriate for anyone who grew up in a rough neighborhood. You know when to keep your mouth shuit, which parts of town to avoid and can identify gangs. A case can be made that anyone who has enough know how to buy drugs for recreational use might have a fam with streetwise (even if it's just the fine art of knowing how to bring up the topic when you arrive in a new town, or the like).

 

Survival is a more common skill than people might realise. If you've been in Boy Scouts, you probably learned how to build a lean-to, assuming you camped in a climate that allwos it (in Southern Canada or the Northern states, you'd have fam w/Survival: Temperate. In Florida, or Australia they probably won't let kids out in the wilderness, so regional trainning may vary) or a campfire or even basic things like that. You might not feel like Tarzan if you fall back on basic skill like that, but it does qualify you to claim a fam with the appropriate terrain on your "sheet".

 

Anyone who's passed a squad leader's or combat arms officer's course has Tactics: Land. I imagine that air force pilots learn how to fly and coordinate their maneuvers early on, so they get the skill too. I assume that Navy officers get some kind of training for their boats and ships as their rank progresses- an Ensign or senior petty officer probably learns how to place their patrol boats in such a way as to mininimse risk while Captains and Commanders do the same with larger ships. Expanding on that, in the SCA, you might learn tactics to emulate the feudal armies. Those of us who have played war games that emulate WWII or the Napolonic war might have learned a thing or two about strategy, but that is really a fam as opposed to the real thing.

 

Weaponsmithing might have been learned by SCA types as well. And army types who'se MOS involved weapons repair.

[JohnTaber]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Boy...mine would be pretty simple...I'm a software QA engineer with an Electronic Engineering degree from Cal Poly...and obviously a gaming geek...

 

Stats...assuming a 10 base...

Body 11 (Barrel Chested)

Dex 8 (Clumsy)

Int 11 (Analytical)

+1" Swimming (Water Polo...grew up in the pool)

 

Skill...

PS: Software QA Engineer (14-)

Computer Programming (8-)

Electronics (Basic and Computer) 11-

KS: Geek Culture (11-)

KS: RPG (13-)

 

Oh yeah...

Contact (Very Cool Gaming Buddies Who Like To Play Hero, 17-)

 

My disads...hummm...

Psych (Naive/Too Trusting)

DNPC (Wife and Kids, 14-)

Phys Lim (Bad Eyes)

 

That's it!

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Maybe my numbers are off but doesn't this seem like it should be a bit higher to anyone else?

Well, I'm neither famous nor rich as a result of using those skills, and I do personally know a number of other artists and designers that I'd consider better at one or the other. (But thankfully for my ego the two groups don't cross over among my acquaintances!) I listed what seemed right for someone with a strong specific talent and a couple decades worth of experience using it daily, but short of being a reknowned expert. To my way of thinking, the 15- to 17- range is for people who've really made a name for themselves in their field, and 18+ is for world-class luminaries.

[Markdoc]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Maybe my numbers are off but doesn't this seem like it should be a bit higher to anyone else?

 

Nah, not to me. I rate 14- as "Pretty damn competent". You can get bonuses for extra time, bonuses for good tools, it's not that hard to pump your roll to 18 or better - which still gives you a 70+% chance of completing a task with a -5 "sheer folly" modifiers - meaning you can routinely ace incredibly difficult tasks.

 

cheers, Mark

[Vondy]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Maybe my numbers are off but doesn't this seem like it should be a bit higher to anyone else?

 

This is one of those "sticky wicket" questions. There are numerous "shitot" - philosophical approaches - to assigning skill granularity and ranking on the boards. Markdoc, Cancer, and I for instance have all generally taken the approach that 11- is a standard professional level for a competent worker; someone who is talented (and won some awards), or very experienced might be a 12-13; and someone at the top of their field is probably a 14-. Anything higher is the rare cream of the crop who are breaking barriers. On the other side of the fence are people who routinely give themselves skills in the 13-14- range with top performers (not the ones breaking barriers) in the 15-17- range, and the ones breaking barriers in the 18+ range. I have noted whether or not one typically players at the heroic or superheroic level is often a significant factor in the psychology behind this. I don't think either is "correct" so much as I feel that, when these questions come up, we have to first establish what philosophical approach the questioner wants us to answer according to. This also applies to breadth: do I need PS: Doctor and SS: Medicine, or do I need a laundry list of supporting skills to be a Doctor?

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

In my life I have managed to become a classic jack of all trades, master of none. i have had a lot of different jobs and interests. I dabble in a little bit of everything, but if I put my mind to it I can become pretty good, at least temporarily. Not complaining, really, it's that kind of thing that makes me a good librarian. So I think my skills would look something like this:

 

PS: Stuff 12-

KS: General Knowledge 12-

Cramming

+1 Overall level

 

Add that to my 40 INT and that should do it.

 

 

 

 

I'm not even going to start listing disads. None of us has that kind of time...

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

PS: Being Bob, 13-

PS: Bob's Job, 12-

KS: Stuff Bob Knows, 13-

KS: Bob's Hobbies, 13-

KS: Bob's World, 13-

AK: Places Bob has Been, 8-

 

Wow, I'm out 14 points before I even get to languages and other skills!

 

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Don't forget

 

Perk: Bob

Contacts: People Bob Knows

 

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Don't forget

 

Perk: Bob

Contacts: People Bob Knows

 

 

Damn! 12 more points minimum, and that's before I get to languages, street-wise, and other skills and perks!

 

Better hope the GM is generous with the Everyman stuff.

[Cancer]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Yeah, but look at it this way, you also get some free points in the package:

 

Hunted: Guys who don't like Bob (More Powerful, harshly punish)

PsychLim: Stuff that really p.o.'s Bob (11-)

Quirk: Stuff about Bob that p.o.'s people who know him

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Which reminds me, people in the real world spend a lot more time buying off or down disavantages than PCs do, because the GM of the real world is a sadist.

[Markdoc]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Which reminds me' date=' people in the real world spend a lot more time buying off or down disavantages than PCs do, because the GM of the real world is a sadist.[/quote']

 

People in the real world are also much less likely to say "Heck, it's only 5 BOD. I'm fine. Let's try that again!"

 

cheers, Mark