YOUR RL Skills

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Well, you have to buy martial arts for 10+points initialy, which is about 3 manuvers.

I think the test for martial arts is :can you pull it out in a fight against a foe of equal physical ability?

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

In essence what I'm saying is I can teach you a Choke Hold in a very short amount of time, but it's really only a Familiarity until you've spent quite a bit more time making it yours and paying the full price for the Maneuver.

 

I'd pretty much agree here. I'd even go further; I'd represent what the average person learns in their first few months in a dojo (or years in a McDojo, or decade in some internal martial arts or fitness oriented schools) is KS: (Name) Martial Art, PS: Kata, and maybe a 3 point skill level or two in Strike / Block / Dodge. I wouldn't bother asking the player to sink points into specific maneuvers until the character has actually learned how to apply them in combat (or full contact sparring, since that's the closest to life or death hand-to-hand combat most people get).

 

However, how I would represent something in Hero / Champions is going to be different from the way another GM would represent it. Also worth noting that, at best, we're talking about a rough approximation of how to represent skills and abilities, as they work in fiction rather than the real world.

 

If it's good enough to be playable and fun in a given campaign, we've succeeded. An arbitrary 1 point = X hours of study and practice sounds good, but wouldn't necessarily be more balanced. After all, X hours of study of the history of wine isn't going to be as useful in most campaigns as an equal number of hours practicing on the target range.

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Well, you have to buy martial arts for 10+points initialy, which is about 3 manuvers.

I think the test for martial arts is :can you pull it out in a fight against a foe of equal physical ability?

 

The last time we had this conversation on the boards, the conclusion was that a quadriplegic midget would kick the ass of an Olympic decathlete, so long as the quadriplegic was female and knew vaguely of the existence of knees.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I remember that one. sorry for bringing it up

[Blue]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Ah, the famed "Self-Game", where you play versions of your real self.

 

I remember 20 years ago glancing over at the guy next to me, who owned a home computer and could barely name the parts, but who had given himself a 14-. Another, just above average guy gave himself a 20 INT. The third had an 18 DEX.

 

With 50 pts to spend I had 45 pts left to use. I had (5) 8- familiarities, because frankly, as a teenager I knew my knowledge was a fraction of the potential.

 

I looked at the STR chart and gave myself 10 STR. The guy next to me who was half my size, with the commensurate strength, gave himself a 15.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Ah, the famed "Self-Game", where you play versions of your real self.

 

I remember 20 years ago glancing over at the guy next to me, who owned a home computer and could barely name the parts, but who had given himself a 14-. Another, just above average guy gave himself a 20 INT. The third had an 18 DEX.

 

With 50 pts to spend I had 45 pts left to use. I had (5) 8- familiarities, because frankly, as a teenager I knew my knowledge was a fraction of the potential.

 

I looked at the STR chart and gave myself 10 STR. The guy next to me who was half my size, with the commensurate strength, gave himself a 15.

Had a vampire game like that. Not one of us had a mental stat below 4 out of 5, two of us took humanity 3(although I was a dribbling psycho back then) most of the secondry skills and weird merits distributed among us...

on the other hand, I had to be talked out of taking Appearence 1 and the GM gave me a level of streetwise because he would have been happy giving me drugs. Still, what were we thinking?

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Had a vampire game like that. Not one of us had a mental stat below 4 out of 5, two of us took humanity 3(although I was a dribbling psycho back then) most of the secondry skills and weird merits distributed among us...

on the other hand, I had to be talked out of taking Appearence 1 and the GM gave me a level of streetwise because he would have been happy giving me drugs. Still, what were we thinking?

 

The only Merit I can think of from a White Wolf game I qualify for comes from Changeling. Three Foot Prehensile Tongue. It's a three pointer but well worth the freebie Points.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Ah, the famed "Self-Game", where you play versions of your real self.

 

I remember 20 years ago glancing over at the guy next to me, who owned a home computer and could barely name the parts, but who had given himself a 14-. Another, just above average guy gave himself a 20 INT. The third had an 18 DEX.

 

With 50 pts to spend I had 45 pts left to use. I had (5) 8- familiarities, because frankly, as a teenager I knew my knowledge was a fraction of the potential.

 

I looked at the STR chart and gave myself 10 STR. The guy next to me who was half my size, with the commensurate strength, gave himself a 15.

 

Ah, yes, I recall those days. Villains & Vigilantes, where you play yourself as a superhero, so my friends and I developed stats for ourselves before transforming into superheroes. My first day of high school I was five feet tall and weighed 92 pounds, yet somehow I had above-average strength, agility, and about everything else. Including Charisma, even though I was socially maladjusted and terrified to talk to anybody.

 

Can you say "wish fulfillment"?

[Karmakaze]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

PS: Annoy Wife' date=' 19-[/quote']

 

I was thinking this would come with Hunted: Annoyed Wife.

 

Man' date=' if I had a dime for everytime someone said to me, "There's no way you're one of those gamer geeks, you shower regularly and wear nice, clean clothes" I could finally pay off all my student loans. [/quote']

 

I had a lovely moment at a convention when one of the hotel cleaning staff stopped and told me, more or less out of the blue, "You smell really nice." (What she meant was that she liked the perfume from my conditioner, but it was still a hilarious thing to hear at a gaming con.)

[Cancer]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

At dust-and-ashes stages of an American Astronomical Society meeting I attended, one cocktail waitress told the table of astronomers, "You're cheap, and you're strange, but you're nice." I think she meant (a) we were lousy tippers and didn't drink much, ( we talked about really weird stuff at the table, and © we didn't do anywhere near as much groping or coarse propositioning as the usual clientele. We seemed to be a welcome break, but because of the problem with (a) she didn't want us around more than 3-4 days a year.

[Vondy]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Assuming baseline characteristics and no need to get overly granular...

 

Deduction 11- (3)

 

PS: Private Investigator 11- (0)

PS: Software Test Engineer 11- (2)

PS: Warlike Tailor 11- (2)

PS: Latin Dance 8- (0)

PS: Cook 8- (1)

 

KS: Rabbinic Studies 11- (2)

KS: Administration of Criminal Justice 11- (2)

KS: Scads of Useless Facts 8- (1)

 

LS: English (Native) (0)

LS: Hebrew (Fluent) (2)

LS: Yiddish (Fluent) (2)

LS: Judeo-Aramaic (Fluent) (2)

LS: Latin (Basic) (1)

 

TF: Four Wheeled Autos, Small Boats (1)

WF: Small Arms (2)

 

Total: 23 Points.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Ah' date=' the famed "Self-Game", where you play versions of your real self.[/quote']

 

No, not at all. I chose "yourself" as an example of a real person's background skills simply because we're all assumed to be somewhat familiar with our own capabilities. Perhaps a bad choice, given how the thread is going, but it was that or argue about comic characters who don't have any particular special background skills.

 

The point was: Not many people have anything close to 50 pts in adventuring skills, so why do so many 350 pt games require their supers to have 50 pts in skills.

 

I remember 20 years ago glancing over at the guy next to me, who owned a home computer and could barely name the parts, but who had given himself a 14-. Another, just above average guy gave himself a 20 INT. The third had an 18 DEX.

 

With 50 pts to spend I had 45 pts left to use. I had (5) 8- familiarities, because frankly, as a teenager I knew my knowledge was a fraction of the potential.

 

I looked at the STR chart and gave myself 10 STR. The guy next to me who was half my size, with the commensurate strength, gave himself a 15.

 

The characteristics aside, this IS the point, very much. Most folks just don't have a lot of skills in Hero terms. Perhaps background stuff, like KS's, PS's, etc., but most of the adventuring skills? Not so much.

 

How many skill points would an average:

 

Truck driver

Waitress

Office Manager

Photographer

Scientist

Computer Technician

Beautician

etc.

 

have on their sheet if they were transformed into a super?

 

Not many.

 

Considering a beginning character in Champions is supposed to be at a starting level in their career more or less, then they won't have too many skills, unless they have an extraodrinary background (adventurer, hunter, military, world-class (comic book) level scientist, etc.).

 

By demanding all characters have X amount of points in Skills, I think you limit the background options to largely those types of characters.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Actually' date=' that's 35 points right there. Let's see... you were in the military, are you in touch with any of your squadmates? could be a couple of points worth of contacts. According to Dark champions, your MOS should be worth about 6 points over and above the PS soldier. As I've said before, being a roleplayer should be good for at least FAM with acting.[/quote']

 

I doubt that's actually 35 points worth, as I was deliberately stretching it to make a point. If I was GMing myself, I'd say no to the MA maneuvers for example.

 

And, nope, I don't have any contacts from the military. I think the old "I'll call my old Army buddy" schtick is more of a fictional trope than a reality. A lot of people simply don't keep in touch.

 

As far as Dark Champs saying an MOS is worth 6 pts, I'd say that depends entirely on how granular you want your skills. I don't think an MOS merits that level of granularity. Mostly, you pick up a small handful of Familiarities from your training, and a PS: Soldier, and a PS or KS for your specialty.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

You know your own capabilities best PG, but I suspect you and a lot of other people are selling themselves short.

[Rage]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I have a feeling that most of us,

when we say 11 actually mean 8, and when we say 13+ we actually mean 8.

 

 

 

 

8.

[Vondy]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Looking at the writeups that people are giving themselves here, I have to conclude that at least one of the following is true:

 

1) Compared to the average gamer, I REALLY suck

2) Everyone else has inflated ideas of their own abilities

3) I have an unrealistically LOW idea of my abilities

4) I'm interpreting skills as being much more significant than most other people do

 

5) people have different design philosophies.

[Vondy]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I have a feeling that most of us,

when we say 11 actually mean 8, and when we say 13+ we actually mean 8.

 

 

 

 

8.

 

I used: professionally competent 11-, talented hobbyist 8-.

[Alibear]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I would guess I have a 1 or 2 pt Martial Punch and a similar level Kick. I never use anything else in a fight, blocking and dodging? No chance. I might have a skill level in MP and one dex skill level for interupt only. Maybe.

 

I'd put my Dex at 11 all the rest would be the 8-10 range. Perhaps slighly higher Int; I scored 130 IQ when I did one of those TV quiz things after a few bottles of wine.

 

German Language, Fluent in my everyday life but loads of vocabulary is missing. so 1.5point in German. A KS Munich 8-.

 

The rest would be what I get as my everyman skills. Makes me wonder what I'm saving all my points for? Radiation accident on the cards perhaps?

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

5) people have different design philosophies.

 

Ayup.

 

For skills, I use 8- as "Hobby / Has Studied", 11- as "Can make a living", 13- as "Notably Skilled", 15- as "Expert", and 16+ as "Elite". I've seen numbers all over the place for the same levels. I don't argue over the cosmic precision of that scale; in play, those numbers work well enough to simulate what I intend them to simulate, and that's good enough.

 

For stats, I generally use 6 or under as "Challenged", 8 as "Average", 11 as "Practiced", 13 as "Notable", 15 as "Exceptional", 16 as "Advanced" and 18+ as "Elite". The cute receptionist probably has most of her stats at 8, possibly with a PRE and COM of 10-12, maybe with a STR or BOD of 6 or under depending on her age and fitness. The IT guy who goes to the gym every other morning might have dragged most of his stats other than PRE and COM up into the 10-12 range; he might even boast a 13 here or there if he's Notably bright and really pushes his training. A serious amateur power lifter might have dragged himself up to a 14+ STR, the lifetime student to a 14+ INT, the trophy wife or local beauty queen might take care to maintain a 14+ COM. People who make their living off of raw ability, or exceptionally dedicated hobbyists, might pass the 15 mark, and once in a while your run into someone who has actually passed 18. At the Elite level in a sport or profession, you might even meet someone who has passed 20, but that remains extremely rare.

 

Most of the above stats are based on the STR tables as they relate to real world weight lifting records, as well as looking at the skill level you'd get at a given stat level. They're rules of thumb, though pretty close to official CU levels.

 

Of course, that's just one GM's approach to design. Another GM might disagree; so long as we don't game together it doesn't much matter.

 

People in general aren't very good at assessing their own limits, and aren't all that reliable in reporting those limits. When I have run design-your-real-world-self games, I've usually said "Design yourself on X points", whether X is 25, 50, or 150.

 

It's only a game.

[Alibear]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm pretty sure I could design myself on 0 poits. And have some to spare at the end.

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm pretty sure I could design myself on 0 poits. And have some to spare at the end.

 

Sure, just count most of your skills as every man skills. Maybe sell off some stats to buy up others. Or you could design yourself at 50 points, paying for all of the 8- skills and contacts you might reasonably claim. It depends on what your game calls for.

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Sure' date=' just count most of your skills as every man skills. Maybe sell off some stats to buy up others. Or you could design yourself at 50 points, paying for all of the 8- skills and contacts you might reasonably claim. It depends on what your game calls for.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry, I'm going to need more points than that. Got to make sure the Three foot prehensile Tongue multi-power is accurate to life.

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm sorry' date=' I'm going to need more points than that. Got to make sure the Three foot prehensile Tongue multi-power is accurate to life.[/quote']

 

Just buy it as limited stretching, and maybe +1 to Seduction, Interrogation, and Contortionist. You can probably build it on 5-6 points.

 

Which brings up the point that gamers in build-yourself games are generally building adventure-worthy versions; a little exaggeration isn't always a bad thing.

[Cancer]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Last time I went through this exercise I built myself on 30+60. I claim no combat skills at all and a RL DEX of 6. But even with the Scientist and Scholar talents the other stuff adds up.

[Bloodstone]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm sorry' date=' I'm going to need more points than that. Got to make sure the Three foot prehensile Tongue multi-power is accurate to life.[/quote']

 

I always knew Certified was a bit batty...