YOUR RL Skills

[Pattern Ghost]

I was just thinking about campaign guidelines I've seen that say your super has to take at least 50 pts in Skills. I think at least part of the reason behind this was a reaction by GMs to the 350 point build totals of 5th Edition. Perhaps partly to avoid characters with every power in the book or to encourage fleshing out characters with skills to add dimension to them.

 

But, really, if your origin is "I'm an Accountant who got struck magic lightning" then do you really NEED to buy any more than Everyman skills to stay in concept?

 

How many of us have actual Hero System skills? Aside from the Background Skills (PS, KS, CK, SS, etc.), all the rest of the skills are Adventuring skills. I don't think most of us have too many of those, though it's quite possible to be a real person and have a good selection of them.

 

Here's my origin story: I went into the Army at the age of 18 after graduating High School. I attended DLI where I learned Spanish, and became an MP. I also served for a while as our Unit Armorer. Aside from Army training, I've spent a lot of my own time on the range, particularly firing handguns, and I'm a pretty capable (though not competition level) marksman. After the Army, I went to college for a couple years to study business, then became a computer tech. Other hobbies/interests include reptile husbandry, reading SF/Fantasy, comics, gaming, and a bit of Poker (both myself and my wife have placed in the money in local tournaments.)

 

Here's what I get beyond Everyman skills from the above:

 

WF: Military Small Arms

A couple of OCV levels with Hanguns.

A couple of PSLs to offset range.

*Maybe* Martial Escape, Martial Grab, and Choke Hold from MP training and additional training outside normal channels.

FAM with Survival, Navigation, Weaponsmith, Gambling and Paramedics

Lang: Spanish

Teamwork and Stealth would be the only full 3pt skills I'd give myself, both from inclination and training.

PS: Soldier

PS: Computer Technician (one of the two would fall under Everyman skills though)

KS: Reptile Husbandry

Other KS for hobbies under Everyman

 

So, not even close to 50 pts, and only two full Adventuring skills, and even that list is probably pushing it for the level of granularity that's typical for a Champions game.

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

In the end, I'm not happy with campaign guidelines requiring the player to sink Exactly X points in skills, or anything else. Better to sit down and talk with the players about what I want to see, and why. Screwed up a good campaign by forgetting that once.

 

These days, I prefer showing the player a basic write up of a person in his character's profession, and then saying "OK, go from here."

 

As to my own skill set, it could be written up as anything from a bunch of free everyman skills to far more than 50 points, depending on how anal the GM wanted to be. It comes down to write up style.

 

In the end, skills mean what the players and GM agree that they mean.

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I tent to have a funny feeling about skills, like climbing the rope in gym class but not really. I think player's should take skills that are appropriate to their background but not to the point it hinders them. In the example above the Lightning Struck Accountant is likely to at least have PS: Accountant and KS: Accounting/Bookkeeping possibly Conversation, Deduction, Forgery maybe a few KS for Finance or Tax Law.

 

However, I would not begrudge a player for not taking all those skills but would be surprised if I didn't see two or three. Sure every point is valuable but I think part of the 350 is to round out the character.

[Querysphinx]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Some skills depend on how good other people think you are. My skills are in art and writing. So how do I determine my roll? Lots of artists who are now thought to be geniuses weren't appreciated in their own time.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Some skills depend on how good other people think you are. My skills are in art and writing. So how do I determine my roll? Lots of artists who are now thought to be geniuses weren't appreciated in their own time.

 

Both could be Professional Skills. I'd venture to say that since art is subjective, it'd be hard to determine if a given person appreciated your art, but if you wanted to use those skills to make money, the roll could determine your ability to sell the products of your art. If you wanted to represent a high level of skill, you could take a small Wealth perk to represent royalties against your existing published work. Since you can take all the extra time you want to revise your work, you wouldn't have to put a ton of points into the actual skill, a two pointer would do for a talented entry-level pro or semi-pro.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I tent to have a funny feeling about skills, like climbing the rope in gym class but not really. I think player's should take skills that are appropriate to their background but not to the point it hinders them. In the example above the Lightning Struck Accountant is likely to at least have PS: Accountant and KS: Accounting/Bookkeeping possibly Conversation, Deduction, Forgery maybe a few KS for Finance or Tax Law.

 

The Everyman Skill list includes your PS skill, so that'd be covered. I don't see most people who are accountants having a need for Deduction or Forgery, though I suppose if they're involved in auditing or forensic accounting, those would be appropriate. I'd say if you took your average Joe accountant and he wanted to be involved in crime fighting, those would be VERY good skills to hone to use to "follow the money."

 

I don't know why you'd include Conversation. In my opinion, it's for information gathering/intelligence, so it'd be appropriate to, say, a military interrogator (97E for Army), police or other intelligence agency.

 

EDIT:

 

Actually, if I was going to build this guy, I'd go with the following for Skills, and actually make him a forensic accountant for his day job, so he's a bit more heroic of an accountant:

 

3 PS: Accountant (INT-based)

3 KS: Finance (INT-based)

3 KS: Forensic Accounting (INT-based)

3 Deduction

3 Forgery

1 FAM: Criminology (The skill covers analyzing records, but that's just a small part of the skill, and could be considered covered by Forensic Accounting and Deduction)

3 Bureaucratics

3 Systems Operation (Heavy computer user.)

5 Computer Link: Federal Systems

3 Federal/National Police Powers

3 Lightning Calculator

3 Paramedic (Brushed up on old training to be better able to aid people)

3 Teamwork

 

Let's see, that's 39 points in Skills (and perks/talents), for an accounting background that's also useful for crime fighting. Not your typical accountant, either, but if the character didn't have the LE background, he'd probably still brush up the investigative aspects of his profession to help him fight crime.

 

I guess an accountant *could* hit 50 or so points in skills if you include combat skills on top of an investigative set, and toss Perks and Talents into the same bucket.

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Conversation and Deduction both fell under the idea of taking what a normal accountant does and bring it to a larger than life level.

 

Conversation: Accountants are often put in the position of having to break bad news or depending sometimes put a spin on them when presenting them. Also, personal accountants work with individuals to make sure they have everything they need to make work out the numbers. So at least how I read Conversation this is the next extension for them. Allowing them to pull information from subjects and "entertain." Just taking it from the very narrow sense that one might normally use it and expanding it to a more heroic level.

 

Deduction:

 

"How did you figure that out with just the few clues you had?"

"Well I'm used to tracking down the answer with only half of what I need, I used to be a corporate accountant."

- Insert Laugh Track -

 

 

Same theory here only with an attempt at humor. Having to track down missing information or filling in the blanks with logical answers based on the evidence at hand.

 

 

Forgery:

 

Insert Book Cooking joke here. It's the same idea. As I said I wouldn't expect a Superhero accountant to have all the skills I listed earlier but taking the concept of what an accountant does and applying it in a cinematic sense you can come up with some fun skills to have.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'd actually use all of those except Conversation to build one (as above). I'd say Conversation would depend on the individual's nature, but is equally valid, especially for someone pursuing a career in crime fighting.

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Your Mileage May Very these are just the skills I can picture an accountant having in a cinematic sense. I wouldn't say that an accountant in real life would have the same skill set but for characters in a game I think we should be willing to bend a bit. On the same token I think just about every character should have some skills, not necessarily a lot, unless they have a really good reason.

[input.jack]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

We give superhero PCs 600 points in 5th Edition. Anyone who spends LESS than about 100 on Skills is setting himself up for a fall. We assume that if it aint on your sheet, you dont know how to do it. That, and we dont use "Everyman skills".

 

Heck, I tend to spend between 25 to 50 points on Professional Skills, alone! This includes things like PS: Stupid Food Tricks, and PS: Pour Things Into Things.

 

Its fun!

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

I'm overpriced.

Okay, if you're running some sort of bizzare "Shoutybloke HERO" campaign, where the skills of a clinicly depressed, practicly housebound bum are vitaly important, then this is the write up, with justifications.

 

3 Acting (picked up by osmosis at stage school, LARPer, life long roleplayer.) Actually, everyone on this board should probably have at least FAM with this

3 Breakfall (martial arts training)

1 FAM with Buraucratics (worked in NHS)

1 FAM with computer programing(understand the principles, studying Java and C++)

3 Conversation (volunteer interveiwer)

3 Deduction (mystery buff)

2 Science- biology(studied at university)

1 FAM with streetwise (ten years in the worst neighbouhood of the worst city in europe, not dead)

4 WF pistols, Common melee, off hand (had a pistol, LARPer, martial arts training)

3 Jack of all Trades

0 Ps Student ( university education)

1 Ps IT guy (microsoft certified profesional, A+, CIW)

1 Ps General Admin(lots of genral admin jobs)

1 Ps fortuneteller (Tarot, palmistry, cold reading)

3 Scholar

0 Ks role playing games (hobby)

1 Ks martial arts(hobby, covers academic knowledge of various styles)

1 Geek culture ( another one everyone here should have)

1 Ks the occult ( 4 years study, hobby)

1 FAM with tactics (LARPer, wargamer)

1 FAM with slight of hand (hobby)

1 FAM with seduction

Martial Arts:

4 Fast strike

4 Choke hold

3 Take down

1 Use art with clubs

10 Two weapon fighting ( martial arts training)

 

58 points. A smidge expensive for what I actually get.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

 

WF: Military Small Arms

A couple of OCV levels with Hanguns.

A couple of PSLs to offset range.

*Maybe* Martial Escape, Martial Grab, and Choke Hold from MP training and additional training outside normal channels.

FAM with Survival, Navigation, Weaponsmith, Gambling and Paramedics

Lang: Spanish

Teamwork and Stealth would be the only full 3pt skills I'd give myself, both from inclination and training.

PS: Soldier

PS: Computer Technician (one of the two would fall under Everyman skills though)

KS: Reptile Husbandry

Other KS for hobbies under Everyman

 

So, not even close to 50 pts, and only two full Adventuring skills, and even that list is probably pushing it for the level of granularity that's typical for a Champions game.

 

Actually, that's 35 points right there. Let's see... you were in the military, are you in touch with any of your squadmates? could be a couple of points worth of contacts. According to Dark champions, your MOS should be worth about 6 points over and above the PS soldier. As I've said before, being a roleplayer should be good for at least FAM with acting.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

PS: Annoy Wife, 19-

[OddHat]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

KS: Stuff Bob Knows, 18-

 

So, I'll know what I know except on a critical failure, and I'll know a fair amount about everything I know on a 13-, enough to hold conversations or write. On an 8- I'll know a lot about stuff I know; boost that with research and extra time, and I can write pretty convincingly about it.

 

PS: Stuff Bob Does, 18-

 

That covers the rest.

 

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

PS: Annoy Wife' date=' 19-[/quote']

Everyman skill...

[Comic]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

It's sad.

 

I've yet to see any list of Everyman Skills that included 'Personal Hygiene'.

 

But I don't think it's meant to be a commentary on roleplayers.

[Certified]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

It's sad.

 

I've yet to see any list of Everyman Skills that included 'Personal Hygiene'.

 

But I don't think it's meant to be a commentary on roleplayers.

 

Per-Son-al Hy-Giene? Is this related to that Soap and Shower I've heard about?

[Bloodstone]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

How many of us have actual Hero System skills? Aside from the Background Skills (PS' date=' KS, CK, SS, etc.), all the rest of the skills are Adventuring skills. I don't think most of us have too many of those, though it's quite possible to be a real person and have a good selection of them.[/quote']

 

I think I would have a lowish roll with Acrobatics and Contortionist, pretty decent Breakfall and at least a Familiarity with Survival. I can be pretty sneaky, but don't think I deserve a full level in Stealth. Then again, maybe I just have a lowish Dex I've had more medical training than many people I know, but I'm doubting that would qualify as more than Familiarity with Paramedics.

 

Probably 10-25 points of Martial Arts for the maneuvers I rely on... and we're talking in the ring, on the mat and in less ideal circumstances. But this depends a lot on the GM's interpretation of how martial arts work. I could justify a significant investment here and some GMs would probably require a lot more maneuvers considering the ranks I hold in various arts combined with my rather eclectic background.

 

Quite a few weapon familiarities, though I'll be the first to admit that I wouldn't actually use half the melee weapons I'm trained with in a fight and could probably skimp points there. Definitely would need Blades, Clubs, Bows and Pistols. Probably Bullwhip, Staff and Garrote. Could maybe skip Spear and Axe. Also Fast Draw, but only for knives.

 

I've trained with, competed against and even beat world class fighters, but I've never considered myself all that good in the grand scheme of things. Plus I haven't had a real workout in almost a year So I'm not sure how many CSL's I would give myself. Definitely more with Grappling than Striking and significantly more with Melee than Ranged.

 

I probably wouldn't qualify in basic conversation for any language other than Spanish. I've also picked up quite a few bits of other languages, but it's mostly simple stuff or martial art. And I briefly tried to learn ASL but only remember a few gestures now.

[Bloodstone]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

PS: Annoy Wife' date=' 19-[/quote']

 

 

Get that roll much higher and it will be KS: Family Law

[teh bunneh]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Most of my points are in Perks:

• Fringe Benefit: Emperor
  
• Money: Filthy Rich
  
• Followers: Army of Loyal Minions
  
• Reputation: Harmless Little Forest Creature/World-Conquering Sociopathic Despot
  
• Advanced Tech
  
• Bases
  
• Vehicles
  
• Contacts
  
• Favors

And of course, there's the +8 PSLs vs. Hit Locations (Only when targeting the Head), and a great big HKA.

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Per-Son-al Hy-Giene? Is this related to that Soap and Shower I've heard about?

LOL

 

Man, if I had a dime for everytime someone said to me, "There's no way you're one of those gamer geeks, you shower regularly and wear nice, clean clothes" I could finally pay off all my student loans.

[Zeropoint]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Looking at the writeups that people are giving themselves here, I have to conclude that at least one of the following is true:

 

1) Compared to the average gamer, I REALLY suck

2) Everyone else has inflated ideas of their own abilities

3) I have an unrealistically LOW idea of my abilities

4) I'm interpreting skills as being much more significant than most other people do

[Enforcer84]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

PS: Operations Supervisor 11-

PS: Teller 12-

KS: Bank Compliance Acts 11-

KS: Bank I work for 8-

8pts

[Shoutybloke]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Looking at the writeups that people are giving themselves here, I have to conclude that at least one of the following is true:

 

1) Compared to the average gamer, I REALLY suck

2) Everyone else has inflated ideas of their own abilities

3) I have an unrealistically LOW idea of my abilities

4) I'm interpreting skills as being much more significant than most other people do

I'm guesssing 3

For instance, I never met a gamer who didn't have great scads of KS at a least -8

A Familiarity means you can perform a moderatly difficult application of the skill 25.93% of the time. This isn't hard to get. Probably you have a lot of familiarities you don't think about.

Lastly, combat skills are disproportianaly expensive compared to the time and effort it takes to learn them. It took about an hour for me to pick up Two Weapon fighting with an instructor (although I'd been proving utterly incompetent at self training the skill for years) and you can learn enough boxing to compete at club level in about three months. On the other hand, PS: lawyer-11, KS law-11 and perk:liscence to practice law costs half the points, but represents an investment of five years plus hard work.

Edit: just remembered you used to be in the navy, so you qualify for the basic military training package, which is about 24 points. If someone presented me, as a GM, with a character who had served a full term and didn't have the package, I'd require an explaination. Military service also comes with about 35 pts of disadvantages, which you lose when you leave the service, so thats another explaination as to where all your points went.

[Bloodstone]

Re: YOUR RL Skills

 

Lastly, combat skills are disproportianaly expensive compared to the time and effort it takes to learn them. It took about an hour for me to pick up Two Weapon fighting with an instructor (although I'd been proving utterly incompetent at self training the skill for years) and you can learn enough boxing to compete at club level in about three months.

 

I know where your coming from here, but I have to disagree to a point.

 

I can teach someone a proper Choke Hold in a few minutes time. It's simple and extremely effective. In HERO system terms, this requires a martial maneuver and is relatively expensive (you could of course build a choke hold as a power construct of some kind, but we'll ignore that for now to keep things simple).

 

The trouble is, while you know one very basic version of the hold, you don't know anything else. You don't know the entries, setups, grips, counters, reversals, variations or any other finer points of how to maximize the chokes effectiveness.

 

You really can't just teach someone a choke hold in a vacuum and say "Ok, you know what your doing and can defend yourself now". You need time and repetition to make the hold combat effective and you need other elements, the very least of which should be a few ideas of how to get from Point A to Point B, let alone from A to Z.

 

But when you plunk down those 4 pts for a Choke Hold in HERO System, that's saying "This ability is fully combat effective. I can use it in just about every fight, all the time. I know what I'm doing!"

 

I'm sure someone will say that what I have spent points on extra maneuvers, CSLs and DCs to represent the time I've spent learning how to choke and strangle people. And they would be correct. But those make me MORE combat effective, above and beyond the basic investment.

 

In essence what I'm saying is I can teach you a Choke Hold in a very short amount of time, but it's really only a Familiarity until you've spent quite a bit more time making it yours and paying the full price for the Maneuver.