VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

[VR Dragon]

For my up coming game one of my players will be playing a Batman homage. So I come to a small problem.... The utility belt.....

 

 

I have been poking about and it seems a VPP would be best to simulate this fun and handy thingy. But I am a moron when it comes to VPP's.

 

Could someone break it down into small parts a moron like me can possibly understand?

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

You have the Pool - this dictates the Maximum Active Points of any single Power; and the total of all the Real Points of the currently useable Powers.

 

The Pool Cost = Number Of Points Put In

The Control Cost = Half The Pool Cost + Advantages and Limitations.

 

If you have a 60 Point Pool your Control Costs 30 Points.

Any given Power may have 60 Active Points in it; You may have any number of Powers active or ready whose Real Points total up to 60.

 

You may not reduce the cost of the Pool. The cost of the Control can be reduced with either Private or Global Limitations:

 

If you can only change the belt in the shop you can put a Limitation on the Control that says that. If all Powers must take the IIF Limitation (or worse) you can put that on the Control as well, and every Power must take it.

 

that help a bit?

[VR Dragon]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Whats the point of the control points then?

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

They take the Limitations, and prevent VPP Costs from being reduced to near 0.

[VR Dragon]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

whats a good way to simulate this belt ?

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Look at the Gadget VPP example in the rulebook. It's a perfect example of how to simulate a Utility Belt.

[VR Dragon]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Maybe just a plain old multipower would be best. As per Nightwing in the champions book.

[Bloodstone]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

I prefer the combination of the Power Skill and an MP for a utility belt. MP covers most of your normal tricks, power skill covers using them in different or jury rigged ways.

 

So long as you don't go overboard, it's a lot cheaper starting off and will let the player explore other aspects of the character more fully...and most Batman homage are scrimping points to begin with...

 

It's also easy to add powers to a moderate sized MP between adventures, since your typical ultra slot will cost 1 or 2 points each.

 

If the utility belt becomes a major focus for the character or if he never has the right tool for the job, you can always let him upgrade it to a VPP later.

 

Of course, if he's going for the whole "with enough time to plan I can defeat anything" aspect of Batman, then just start off with the VPP.

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

The joy and reason I love Hero is that you can build a utility belt either way.

 

And both are right, it really depends on what you want the Utility belt to do.

[Vondy]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

TV Batman Belt: 30 Point Pool, Change as 0 Phase Action +1, Requires Streetwise Roll To Change In Combat -1, Gadgets and Minor Attack Items Only -1/2. Cost: 42 Points.

 

This, of course, allows for some patetly bizarre convenience, but its one way of doing it. Another is a multipower.

 

If you don't have experience with VPPs, however, I would recommend writing up the items available in advance and not allowing too much innovation at run-time unless the player really knows what they are doing and can improvise powers on the fly.

[Kirby]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

whats a good way to simulate this belt ?

I personally recommend the Multipower.

[Kenn]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

TV Batman Belt: 30 Point Pool, Change as 0 Phase Action +1, Requires Streetwise Roll To Change In Combat -1, Gadgets and Minor Attack Items Only -1/2. Cost: 42 Points.

 

Doesn't this imply that the Adam West Batman had the Streetwise skill? That's a reach.

[Kirby]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Doesn't this imply that the Adam West Batman had the Streetwise skill? That's a reach.

Evidently you didn't notice the street criminals back then.

[JmOz]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

VPP version

 

30 Point VPP, All slots OIF: Belt (-1/2), Cosmic (+2), must predetermine 10 gadgets for pool, only changing at the base (-1/4),

 

Total cost 56 points

 

MP version

 

20 30 Point MP Reserve, OIF

1u Micro Recorder Eiditic Memory, 2 1 hour continuing fuel charges, x4 clips, OAF

1u Throwing discs 6d6 EB, 4 recoverable charges

1u smoke bombs 3" Change enviroment -4 PER

1u Skill Kits +2 All non combat skills

1u Flashbangs: 3d6 Flash (Sight & Hearing) Explosive, 6 charges

 

etc...

[Korvar]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

If you're new to VPPs, and you go with the VPP version, you or the player probably want to write up a bunch of gadgets beforehand, which the player can then choose from in the game. That way you don't have to stop the game while you work out the limitations on a laser cutting torch in the middle of a session.

[korovan]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Doesn't this imply that the Adam West Batman had the Streetwise skill? That's a reach.

 

The "TV Batman" could just as easily mean the "B:TAS" version, or even "The Batman"... I think each of those ran longer than Adam West and Co...

[Dr Archeville]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Here's something I've gotten into disagreements about with players: Is the total Active cost of a VPP equal to:

A) the cost of the Pool plus the Active cost of the Control (1/2 Pool + Advantages),

or

equal only to the cost of the Pool?

 

Example: Campaign cap of 90 Active points per power.

Under Option A, a character could have at most a VPP with a 60-point Pool (Pool 60 + Control 30).

Under Option B, they could have a VPP with a 90-point Pool.

 

 

I've always thought it was the former, but have talked with more than one player who was adamant that it was the latter.

 

 

 

The "TV Batman" could just as easily mean the "B:TAS" version' date=' or even "The Batman"... I think each of those ran longer than Adam West and Co...[/quote']

Adam West's Batman had 120 eps.

Batman: The Animated Series had 85. (+24 if you also add The New Batman Adventures, though that's still only 109.)

The Batman has had 65 eps.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Here's something I've gotten into disagreements about with players: Is the total Active cost of a VPP equal to:

A) the cost of the Pool plus the Active cost of the Control (1/2 Pool + Advantages),

or

equal only to the cost of the Pool?

 

Example: Campaign cap of 90 Active points per power.

Under Option A, a character could have at most a VPP with a 60-point Pool (Pool 60 + Control 30).

Under Option B, they could have a VPP with a 90-point Pool.

 

 

I've always thought it was the former, but have talked with more than one player who was adamant that it was the latter.

 

 

 

 

Adam West's Batman had 120 eps.

Batman: The Animated Series had 85. (+24 if you also add The New Batman Adventures, though that's still only 109.)

The Batman has had 65 eps.

 

Option B, as I've played it. If the campaign limit is 60 points, then you can have a 60 point pool so you can match the same 12d6 attacks as somebody else. Otherwise, it's impossible to even use a cosmic VPP in a campaign with any limits and, just to save time, you should ban VPPs entirely.

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Technically - Option A per the Rules FAQ.

 

In Practice - most people go with Option B.

[Ranxerox]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

VPP version

 

30 Point VPP, All slots OIF: Belt (-1/2), Cosmic (+2), must predetermine 10 gadgets for pool, only changing at the base (-1/4),

 

Total cost 56 points

 

MP version

 

20 30 Point MP Reserve, OIF

1u Micro Recorder Eiditic Memory, 2 1 hour continuing fuel charges, x4 clips, OAF

1u Throwing discs 6d6 EB, 4 recoverable charges

1u smoke bombs 3" Change enviroment -4 PER

1u Skill Kits +2 All non combat skills

1u Flashbangs: 3d6 Flash (Sight & Hearing) Explosive, 6 charges

 

etc...

 

The whole point of the Cosmic advantage to allow you to change the pool powers to whatever and whenever. Adding a change only in base and only to certain preset items totally negates the advantage and waste a lot of points.

[ghost-angel]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

The whole point of the Cosmic advantage to allow you to change the pool powers to whatever and whenever. Adding a change only in base and only to certain preset items totally negates the advantage and waste a lot of points.

 

Yes and No.

 

Cosmic allows you to change Slots as a 0-Phase Action with No Skill Roll.

 

If you're working with the idea you can only take, for example, fifteen items into the field with you then you're limiting yourself to 15 Slots, but you can change out those Slots at a moments notice. (15 Tools At Once -0; Can Only Change Out Tools At The Shop -1)

 

The two ideas are no mutually exclusive, though rarely put together.

[Ranxerox]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Yes and No.

 

Cosmic allows you to change Slots as a 0-Phase Action with No Skill Roll.

 

If you're working with the idea you can only take, for example, fifteen items into the field with you then you're limiting yourself to 15 Slots, but you can change out those Slots at a moments notice. (15 Tools At Once -0; Can Only Change Out Tools At The Shop -1)

 

The two ideas are no mutually exclusive, though rarely put together.

 

OK, I could see that build for a utility belt. JMOz, however, was only giving himself a -1/4 limitation for Can Only Change at Shop which seemed to be toasting himself for points.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

A VPP is a good way to build a Utility Belt, but you don't need a VPP for it.

 

Here's a couple of "utility" type gadgeteers built on MP's:

Night Thrasher

 

Ing

[Dr Archeville]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

Option B' date=' as I've played it. If the campaign limit is 60 points, then you can have a 60 point pool so you can match the same 12d6 attacks as somebody else.[/quote']

But wouldn't the extreme versatility of a VPP make up for that raw power? That seems to be the logic behind Option A/the RAW.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: VPPs for Dummies? (IE. Me!)

 

But wouldn't the extreme versatility of a VPP make up for that raw power? That seems to be the logic behind Option A/the RAW.

 

Don't think so. Take a 60 point active cap. I want a cosmic VPP. To meet the 60 point cap with option A, I get . . . a whopping 24 point pool. My control cost is half the pool (12 points), then a +2 advantage for no skill roll and zero phase action (36 total). So, while my teammates are slinging out 12d6 EBs, I get to throw a 4 1/2d6 EB.

 

Are gadgeteering VPPs still viable like that? Sure, but most gadget pools seem to tend to be filled with lower-cost utility-type items, so it just means you have fewer total small things. A magic pool, by and large, becomes worthless.

 

Being able to do lots of things badly isn't vaguely as effective as actually being able to do one thing well. In the 60 point campaign above, it's just easier to ban VPPs entirely rather than pretending they can be effective.