gravitic well

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: gravitic well

 

Wow, so many suggestions and I still have no idea which one suits it best. TK works well because it grabs them when they get in range and they can try to resist it. The thing about gravity is you can beat it with enough force. If someone has a more powerful flight power, then they can break free.

 

If I use movement suppression, it still models accurately the difficulty of moving under another gravity field.

 

If flight UAA is used then I can really have fun with the whole attraction and repelling game.

 

Decisions, decisions....

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: gravitic well

 

I have a similar character called Black Hole. He has the ability to become something akin to an actual black hole. He must concentrate to create a gravity well centered on himself. He also can control the gravity to the extent that he can concentrate it on specific individuals... thus tugging but not moving innocents while pulling the baddies toward himself (cuts down on collateral damage - the character would otherwise be useless anywhere other than a corn field ). Once the bad guys reach him they encounter the complete effects of Black Hole's gravity well and are literally pummeled by gravity (Damage Shield). He can also blast out arcs of energy within his gravity well = Energy Blast.

 

I put together an Elemental Control in an attempt to depict the power set. I'm not sure if its working. Any thoughts would be welcome!!!

 

 

Black Hole EC

 

1) 70 STR TK: AE Radius x2 = 14” (+1 1/4); Selective (+1/4); Pull toward body only (-1), No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4), Concentrate throughout = 0 DCV (-1)

 

2) Force Field: (30 rPD, 30 rED); Hardened (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Activation 8- (-2)

 

3) Damage Shield: 12d6 EB; Continuous (+1); Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Concentrate to turn on - 0 DCV (-1/2), Activation 14- (-1/2)

 

4) Energy Blast: 14d6 AE Radius (+1); Selective (+1/4); No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4) -- Range = 7” Sphere from BH

 

Additional Powers -

 

3d6 Flash: Normal Sight Group; AE Radius (+1); Selective (+1/4); No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4), Linked to EB (-1/2)

 

Change Environment: Photo-Negative sight and high winds blowing inward toward Black Hole - within range of Telekinesis and Energy Blast; Linked to TK (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), No Conscious Control (-1)

 

 

Does he have to buy the personal immunity for his AoE, no range TK or is the forcefield supposed to compensate for that?

[Tonio]

Re: gravitic well

 

Does he have to buy the personal immunity for his AoE' date=' no range TK or is the forcefield supposed to compensate for that?[/quote']

 

Well, it's Selective, so I guess he can simply choose not to attack himself.

 

Not to mention that even if he did target himself, he'd only pull himself towards himself.

[GoldenAge]

Re: gravitic well

 

Well, it's Selective, so I guess he can simply choose not to attack himself.

 

Not to mention that even if he did target himself, he'd only pull himself towards himself.

 

Yep

 

Keep it simple. I try to never add stuff to a power just to add stuff to a power.

[Maur]

Re: gravitic well

 

If I use movement suppression, it still models accurately the difficulty of moving under another gravity field.

 

If flight UAA is used then I can really have fun with the whole attraction and repelling game.

 

Decisions, decisions....

 

Well, suppressing movement isn't quite accurate. They should be able to come at you faster than away from you (going down the gravity well rather than up it)

[SteveZilla]

Re: gravitic well

 

Black Hole EC

 

1) 70 STR TK: AE Radius x2 = 14” (+1 1/4); Selective (+1/4); Pull toward body only (-1), No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4), Concentrate throughout = 0 DCV (-1)

 

2) Force Field: (30 rPD, 30 rED); Hardened (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Activation 8- (-2)

 

3) Damage Shield: 12d6 EB; Continuous (+1); Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Concentrate to turn on - 0 DCV (-1/2), Activation 14- (-1/2)

 

4) Energy Blast: 14d6 AE Radius (+1); Selective (+1/4); No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4) -- Range = 7” Sphere from BH

 

Additional Powers -

 

3d6 Flash: Normal Sight Group; AE Radius (+1); Selective (+1/4); No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4), Linked to EB (-1/2)

 

Change Environment: Photo-Negative sight and high winds blowing inward toward Black Hole - within range of Telekinesis and Energy Blast; Linked to TK (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), No Conscious Control (-1)

 

1. He doesn't need Personal Immunity on the TK because it's Selective (and has "Pull toward body only (-1)"). Though I am curious why you used the combination of AoE and Reduced By Range instead of just Explosion? Especially since Reduced By Range doesn't happen since there is No Range.

 

2. His Force Field goes on-and-off from Phase to Phase depending upon the 8- Activation Roll for what reason?

 

3. "Concentrate to turn on - 0 DCV (-1/2), Activation 14- (-1/2)" is not IMO a good combination of Limitations. The Activation Roll just about guarantees that it will turn off sooner or later, which means to start it up again the character must do the Concentration again.

 

4. Why not Explosion instead of AoE/Reduced By Range? Technically, since it has No Range, it never gets Reduced By Range. "He can also blast out arcs of energy within his gravity well = Energy Blast." Drop the Reduced By Range and Change the AoE Radius to Explosion and make it drop 2 DCs per inch -- giving a 7-inch "maximum" area/range. Because it's selective, he doesn't need Personal Immunity here either.

 

I'm not sure what the "Photo-Negative sight" part of the Change Environment is? Is it the effect where all colors are flipped to their chromatic opposite?

 

I think you need to buy up the area of the Change Environment to match the EB's 7" 'area' -- it doesn't get to piggyback for free.

 

I see a problem with having "Concentrate throughout = 0 DCV (-1)" on the TK. The problem I see with Concentration is the "... only dimly aware of nearby events" line in the description. The caveat of "although if he uses the power to attack someone, he's fully aware of his target and what that target is doing." doesn't offset this. You'd be aware of those you target when you activate the power, but would become "only dimly aware" of everything else -- including new opponents.

[Basil]

Re: gravitic well

 

Telekinesis: STR 40 AoE Radius (+1) Personal immunity (+1/4) 135 AP, No Range (-1/2) Affects Whole Object (-1/4) Real cost 77

 

I also am a bit fuzzy on how the radius will turn out. According to my understanding it'll be calculated on 75 AP so does that make it a 7.5 hex radius of affection?

Um, radius of effect; a "radius of affection" would be how far love/care/liking could be felt. Oh, and you get to round up to 8 hexes.

 

1) 70 STR TK: AE Radius x2 = 14” (+1 1/4); Selective (+1/4); Pull toward body only (-1), No Range (-1/2), Reduced by Range (-1/4), Concentrate throughout = 0 DCV (-1)

 

As a side-note: You have miscalculated the radius.

Area of Effect (Radius):...The area is 1" in radius in all three dimensions for every 10 XXXX Active Points in the Power not counting the Area of Effect Advantage.

IOW, figure the Active Cost as if there was no Area of Effect on the power, then divide that by 10.

 

70 "STR" TK is 105 base points; with a +1/4 Advantage would be 131 Active Points; giving 13" usually, or 26" when doubled.

[GoldenAge]

Re: gravitic well

 

1. He doesn't need Personal Immunity on the TK because it's Selective (and has "Pull toward body only (-1)"). Though I am curious why you used the combination of AoE and Reduced By Range instead of just Explosion? Especially since Reduced By Range doesn't happen since there is No Range.

 

I guess I've always felt that Explosion has an instant effect feel. Since the TK can be continuous I felt more comfortable with my build. As far as range... Um, yes there is range. The radius of effect provides a semblance of range (24" as Basil has pointed out below) and to represent the reduction of the gravity well's affect at longer distances I added Reduced by Range. The farther away from Black Hole gets, the less his pull on them. Got a better idea? I'd be happy to consider anything.

 

2. His Force Field goes on-and-off from Phase to Phase depending upon the 8- Activation Roll for what reason?[/Quote]

 

DRAMA! Black Hole has the potential to be incredibly powerful in combat. With his Force Field activated he has a total of 50rPD/50rED to protect him from objects/people that his TK sends flying toward him. The chance that his FF might fail makes him think about using his power carelessly and gives him room for character improvement.

 

3. "Concentrate to turn on - 0 DCV (-1/2)' date=' Activation 14- (-1/2)" is not IMO a good combination of Limitations. The Activation Roll just about guarantees that it will turn off sooner or later, which means to start it up again the character must do the Concentration again.[/quote']

 

Again... Drama. I'm building characters, not combat machines. Have a better idea? As I've said above I'm certainly open to any ideas and help I can get.

 

4. Why not Explosion instead of AoE/Reduced By Range? Technically' date=' since it has No Range, it never gets Reduced By Range. "He can also blast out arcs of energy within his gravity well = Energy Blast." Drop the Reduced By Range and Change the AoE Radius to Explosion and make it drop 2 DCs per inch -- giving a 7-inch "maximum" area/range. Because it's selective, he doesn't need Personal Immunity here either.[/quote']

 

Since EB is instant, Explosion makes allot of sense here. I'll definatly consider the change!

 

I'm not sure what the "Photo-Negative sight" part of the Change Environment is? Is it the effect where all colors are flipped to their chromatic opposite?

 

Wow, am I so old that no one but me remembers what a photo negative looks like? Darn kids and their digital cameras... GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

Yes, it turns things to black and white and then inverses those two colors. Just a fun black hole effect.

 

I think you need to buy up the area of the Change Environment to match the EB's 7" 'area' -- it doesn't get to piggyback for free.

 

Yep!

 

I see a problem with having "Concentrate throughout = 0 DCV (-1)" on the TK. The problem I see with Concentration is the "... only dimly aware of nearby events" line in the description. The caveat of "although if he uses the power to attack someone' date=' he's fully aware of his target and what that target is doing." doesn't offset this. You'd be aware of those you target when you activate the power, but would become "only dimly aware" of everything else -- including new opponents.[/quote']

 

I'd argue that the caveat of "although if he uses the power to attack someone, he's fully aware of his target and what that target is doing." extends to any new targets. If it didn't, no one would be able to use a power with Concentrate against more than one target. Am I wrong, or is this a tomato/tomahto thing?

[GoldenAge]

Re: gravitic well

 

As a side-note: You have miscalculated the radius.

70 "STR" TK is 105 base points; with a +1/4 Advantage would be 131 Active Points; giving 13" usually, or 26" when doubled.

Thanks! (sloppy of me)

[Ternaugh]

Re: gravitic well

 

I keep on picturing other characters using a slingshot effect to speed up by whipping around in the character's gravity well. It would truly be an interesting take on the "Fastball Special", or a really cool way to define Missile Deflection.

 

JoeG

(Yes, yes, I know. Too much Classic Traveller Book 2 space combat)

[Sean Waters]

Re: gravitic well

 

Part of the problem is that there is not a power in Hero that allows you to ACCELERATE a target, phse to phase. Gravity is a meta-system.

 

The only really accurate way to do this (probably) is either (as has been suggested) with change environment, if you can persuade your GM that gravity, like temperature, should be dealt with that way, or some sort of EDM or transform (the ultimate meta-powers).

 

Of course we are not necessarily after perfect realism, but I'm just saying.

[SteveZilla]

Re: gravitic well

 

First off, I'd like to mention something about Selective: 5ER says "If a Selective Area Of Effect Power is Constant, the attacker cannot alter whom the power affects every Phase. If he wants to change who's affected, he has to deactivate the power and use it again. If a character enters the area after the power's been established, and the attacker wants to affect him, he must make an Attack Roll to do so; this takes no time."

 

So, once the Selective AoE TK is in use (i.e., being used on one or more targets), the character can add targets with just another Attack Roll, but to release one target he has to shut the whole power off and then restart it. Which means making another Attack Roll against all the targets he wants to "maintain" his grip against. I'm not sure I agree with this, but that is what the book says.

 

Also, the book does not directly say if Selective or Nonselective can be applied to a power alongside Explosion. I've asked Steve Long about that (and other things).

 

--------------------------

 

Also, about Concentration: 5ER says a few things:

 

PER of other stuff:

"Furthermore, he is, at best, only dimly aware of nearby events... He may make a PER Roll with a Targeting Sense at -3 to notice any such events."

 

Movement:

'He may not move more than 1" per Phase, nor may he Dodge or take any other Actions."

 

Other powers:

"With either level of Concentration, a character cannot activate or use another power with Concentration at the same time, or as long as he has to Concentrate."

 

I'd argue that the caveat of "although if he uses the power to attack someone' date=' he's fully aware of his target and what that target is doing.[/i']" extends to any new targets. If it didn't, no one would be able to use a power with Concentrate against more than one target. Am I wrong, or is this a tomato/tomahto thing?

 

If they aren't targets *yet*, how can he be fully aware of them under this caveat?

 

I guess I've always felt that Explosion has an instant effect feel.

 

I can understand the feeling as most explosive effects we encounter are instant in duration -- they go Boom, and that's it. But what about a Hurricane's winds? Something like: Energy Blast vs PD, Explosion, Megascaled Area, Hole In The Middle?

 

DRAMA! Black Hole has the potential to be incredibly powerful in combat. With his Force Field activated he has a total of 50rPD/50rED to protect him from objects/people that his TK sends flying toward him. The chance that his FF might fail makes him think about using his power carelessly and gives him room for character improvement.

 

Well, I didn't know he already had 20rPD/20rED outside of the EC. But the Concentration on the TK (throughout) and the Force Field (Only To Start, IIRC) means that while you can start the FF first, then the TK -- but once the FF shuts off from the Activation Roll, you'd have to shut off the TK to restart the FF.

 

Again... Drama. I'm building characters' date=' not combat machines. Have a better idea? As I've said above I'm certainly open to any ideas and help I can get. [/quote']

 

There's nothing wrong with building a dramatic combat machine.

 

Wow, am I so old that no one but me remembers what a photo negative looks like? Darn kids and their digital cameras... GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

Yes, it turns things to black and white and then inverses those two colors. Just a fun black hole effect.

 

Why would it make everything monochromatic before inverting? I think it would be a cooler effect if all the colors were inverted. After all there is no such thing as a "white" photon of light.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: gravitic well

 

First off, I'd like to mention something about Selective: 5ER says "If a Selective Area Of Effect Power is Constant, the attacker cannot alter whom the power affects every Phase. If he wants to change who's affected, he has to deactivate the power and use it again. If a character enters the area after the power's been established, and the attacker wants to affect him, he must make an Attack Roll to do so; this takes no time."

 

So, once the Selective AoE TK is in use (i.e., being used on one or more targets), the character can add targets with just another Attack Roll, but to release one target he has to shut the whole power off and then restart it. Which means making another Attack Roll against all the targets he wants to "maintain" his grip against. I'm not sure I agree with this, but that is what the book says.

 

I would have read this as, if you are constantly affecting an area and you want to add or remove people from being affected in the area then you have to switch off the power and switch it back on again. However, if someone enters the area then you can decide whether to affect them or not without switching on and off.

 

Makes more game sense.

 

 

Doc

[GoldenAge]

Re: gravitic well

 

I would have read this as, if you are constantly affecting an area and you want to add or remove people from being affected in the area then you have to switch off the power and switch it back on again. However, if someone enters the area then you can decide whether to affect them or not without switching on and off.

 

Makes more game sense.

 

 

Doc

 

Agreed... And since I'm the GM... That's how it works.

[Sean Waters]

Re: gravitic well

 

I said you can't do acceleration in Hero, other than as a meta-construct, and I was wrong. it is just that it is expensive, and pretty pointless unless you add megascale to the AoEs, as you would be out of the radius before you got going. This build increases the velocity by 5" per phase.

 

150 Acceleration due to gravity: Succor UAA Flight 12d6 (standard effect: 36 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Continuous (+1) (150 Active Points)

30 Crushing force: Energy Blast 2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1), No Normal Defense (LS: High pressure/Gravitic powers or defences; +1), Continuous (+1) (45 Active Points); Linked (Acceleration due to gravity; -½)

23 Falling!: Flight 5", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1) (35 Active Points); Linked (Acceleration due to gravity; -½)

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: gravitic well

 

Per Star Hero, 1G acceleration is equal to 60/SPD inches per Phase. That amounts to 5" per Segment of movement. That's also in space, assuming you're using the rule that there's no maximum movement in space.

 

On Earth, in an atmosphere, you're looking at 360/SPD inches per Phase, which comes out to 30" per Segment (terminal velocity). Limit it to a maximum of 5" per Segment per Segment acceleration and you've about got it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: gravitic well

 

Per Star Hero, 1G acceleration is equal to 60/SPD inches per Phase. That amounts to 5" per Segment of movement. That's also in space, assuming you're using the rule that there's no maximum movement in space.

 

On Earth, in an atmosphere, you're looking at 360/SPD inches per Phase, which comes out to 30" per Segment (terminal velocity). Limit it to a maximum of 5" per Segment per Segment acceleration and you've about got it.

 

That works (although it gets exponentially more expensive for higher G fields as terminal velocity doesn't go up in a straight line)

[SteveZilla]

Re: gravitic well

 

Not to mention that terminal velocity is dependent upon atmospheric density. The denser the atmosphere, the greater the drag and the lower the terminal velocity for a free-falling body (not counting orbital mechanical forces) will be.

[Basil]

Re: gravitic well

 

I guess I've always felt that Explosion has an instant effect feel. Since the TK can be continuous I felt more comfortable with my build. As far as range... Um' date=' yes there is range. The radius of effect provides a semblance of range (24" as Basil has pointed out below) and to represent the reduction of the gravity well's affect at longer distances I added Reduced by Range. The farther away from Black Hole gets, the less his pull on them. Got a better idea? I'd be happy to consider anything.[/quote']

 

Nope, sorry, you've got it wrong. By definition, "Range" on an AoE Radius power is the distance from the causer to the center of the Radius. A "No Range" AoE Radius power has NO RANGE. You cannot put "Reduced by Range" on it, as there's no range for it to be reduced by.

 

It's a Explosion, plain and simple. As for "Explosion has an instant effect feel"---do not assume any special effect must go with any Power, Limitation, or Advantage. No need to limit Explosion to Instant Power.

 

SteveZilla gave a good example: A hurricane is an continuous EB with Explosion. Here's another: A highly radioactive spot would be a RKA, NND, Penetrating (x2?), and Explosion.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: gravitic well

 

Not to mention that terminal velocity is dependent upon atmospheric density. The denser the atmosphere' date=' the greater the drag and the lower the terminal velocity for a free-falling body (not counting orbital mechanical forces) will be.[/quote']

 

First person busts out a physics book or an equation, I'm 'a slap 'em.

 

[SteveZilla]

Re: gravitic well

 

First person busts out a physics book or an equation, I'm 'a slap 'em.

 

 

...Says the person using a picture of a scientist for his avatar and having a quote about gravitational pull in his signature.

[Maur]

Re: gravitic well

 

First person busts out a physics book or an equation, I'm 'a slap 'em.

 

 

Just because...

 

Vt = sqrt((2*m*g)/(p*A*Cd))

 

where

Vt = terminal velocity

m = mass of the falling object

g = gravitational acceleration

Cd = drag coefficient

ρ = density of the fluid through which the object is falling, and

A = projected area of the object.

[Vulcan]

Re: gravitic well

 

[GoldenAge]

Re: gravitic well

 

Nope' date=' sorry, you've got it wrong. [u']By definition,[/u] "Range" on an AoE Radius power is the distance from the causer to the center of the Radius. A "No Range" AoE Radius power has NO RANGE. You cannot put "Reduced by Range" on it, as there's no range for it to be reduced by.

 

It's a Explosion, plain and simple. As for "Explosion has an instant effect feel"---do not assume any special effect must go with any Power, Limitation, or Advantage. No need to limit Explosion to Instant Power.

 

Thanks for the clarification... If not the attitude.

[Tech]

Re: gravitic well

 

Hmm, all good points. I believe I shall ammend the entry. Not sure how to value the collie's suggested limitations.

 

Telekinesis: STR 40 Explosion (-1DC/2") +3/4, Personal immunity +1/4 120 AP; Affects whole object -1/4, No Range -1/2, only to push/pull -1/4, Does no damage -1/2 (real cost 48)

 

Sci-fi, I think it should do damage. I mean, all gravitational wells do that, don't they?