Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

[David Blue]

Other than Horror Hero itself, what's a good source of doctrine for beginning vampire slayers? I'm looking for something a young, self-taught vampire slayer in training might plausibly read and be influenced by.

 

He already has KS Blade Movie Mythos 8-, and is working on being a good, solid Horus worshiper, figuring that if you're not cut out to be a Christian, a militant sun god having your back is as good as it gets, so he's working on a religious KS. He looks up to Whistler, from the Blade movies, and is working hard on basic skills like WF Shotgun, Mechanics, Electronics and Inventing. But I feel he needs more.

 

There are endless guides to the undead, and there's any amount of vampire fiction to refer to, but I'm not seeing much that serves my purpose. I'm not looking for a semi-plausible source for a KS: Vampires but for a Tactics skill focused on vampire slaying: a Sun Tzu with stakes.

 

I don't think that reading every Anne Rice book I haven't read so far and re-watching the Underground movies is going to help me. I've got the idea: vampires (and possibly rivals like werewolves) are awesome and cool, warm-blooded mortal cattle are just munchies; what I'm interested in is the career of the super-brilliant psychic who refuses to conform to that.

 

Young "Sword" has night-vision and is a handy psychic, which is why he feels chosen for his task, and he recently managed to train his DEX up to 11, so he's not useless, but the tactics of Buffy Summers - wander into the fray with a stake and overwhelming physical superiority and lay waste to all comers - are definitely not going to be available. Mistakes that lead to a determined, INT 20 psychic kid getting into a wresting contest with the likes of Lestat or even the young Louis will not be recoverable.

 

Of course, he could run into a real life Whistler, and instead of doing his self-guided study and becoming the founder of the modern school of vampire slayers, he could become an apprentice of the NPC who was. But that's not the concept I have in mind.

 

The genre is mostly Dark Champions, and not Eldritch Horror. I'm looking for ways to kick butt, not to Increase the Horror and Dive Deeper into the Endless Whirlpool of Madness and Despair.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Do Not Go Out At Night

Do Not Go Out At Night

Do Not Go Out At Night

 

repeat this mantra and you will be safe from vampires. At night, you should be locked inside your very well hidden, fireproof, fortress like home.

 

Fight vampires during the day. And by fight I mean find out where they sleep and burn it down at 9:30 AM. Or buldoze it to let the sun in. Or fill it with 100 tonnes of concrete.Or call the cops and tell them there's a dead body in the basement.

Do not ever physicly confront a vampire, because they will eat you. Don't be a hero. Don't try to be dirty harry. Don't give them anything like a fair chance. Outright murder of helpless targets is your goal.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Any rpg-related article or book providing advice or tactics for combat in general, and dungeoneering in particular. Or even if the Character simply just participates in a few campaigns (role-playing a role-player, certain irony there, I guess). Arguably, one could get a lot of sound theory from this direction.

 

I would also suggest just about every trashy slasher / zombie / horror / etc. flick the Character can find, if just so he can go through all of them and gain some insight into what NOT to do.

[sinanju]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Other than Horror Hero itself' date=' what's a good source of doctrine for beginning vampire slayers? I'm looking for something a young, self-taught vampire slayer in training might plausibly read and be influenced by.[/quote']

 

VAMPIRE$ by John Steakley.

 

Not, repeat NOT, the crappy movie they made of the book--but the book itself. It is, in my opinion, THE best vampire hunting novel EVER.

 

How to kill vampires the safe® way (this is the opening scene of the novel so not really a spoiler).

 

1. Find nest.

2. Wait for a bright, sunny day.

3. Your team shows up in chainmail armor with cross-shaped halogen light boxes on their chests. They have a priest on call.

4. RAZE THE BUILDING with wrecking balls, bulldozers, backhoes, etc.

5. Use great big grappling hooks on cables connected to powerful winches; throw grapples into wreckage, pull it apart. Lather, rinse, repeat. When vampires are finally exposed to sunlight, they burst into furious flame and die.

6. Use crossbows and boar spears as needed to impale vampires and hold them in place while sunlight does its work.

7. Get the townsfolk to cut you a cashier's check for the job at the previously-agreed price while they're still shellshocked and unable to pretend they didn't see what they just saw.

8. Get the hell out of Dodge before they convince themselves you're a scam artist and try to imprison and/or stiff you.

[Maur]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

And what if they aren't "standard" vampires, but ones that, while weaker, can still move around in daylight?

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

For cheesy movie take on how to fight vampires you might consider Fright Night, Lost Boys, Return to Salem's Lot, the Dracula 2000 series and Dusk 'til Dawn series.

 

Hellsing might also be useful.

 

One point that I'd say should be taken into consideration is 'be creative'.

 

While crossbows, flamethrowers, sunguns and holy water filled supersoakers are useful weapons Vampires may well be aware of such innovations.

 

Here is a short list of the most inventive vampire deaths I've ever come across.

 

- Force feeding the creature a cross.

 

- Tricking a gang of them into drinking blood from a girl who had a condition which resembled haemophilia. This wasn't fatal but the subsequent beating was.

 

- Wrapping it in a blessed shroud.

 

- Pulverising it by trapping it in a giant mincing machine.

 

- Waiting until it had assumed its batform and then eating it. (A tactic best left to those vampire hunters who happen to be cats).

 

- Using a mirror to reflect sunlight down onto the creature, thus forcing her to take refuge in her coffin, which had been filled with communion wafers.

 

- Piloting the spaceship that the creature was on directly into a nearby star.

[Southern Cross]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

My own recommendations are as follows:

(1)Your slayer should read Dracula by Bram Stoker.Preferably the annotated version,as it points out the mistakes that Stoker made in writing it.(Why,for example did Stoker have his vampire hunters put wafers in the coffins.Wouldn't crucifixes have been more suitable?)

(2)Get Lee Killough's Bloodhunt & Bloodlinks (probably from secondhand bookshops).Not only is it invaluable from the point of understanding your enemy,the villain in the second book is actually a vampire hunter.He makes a perfect example of what NOT to become.Remember the point of being a vampire hunter is to protect humans from vampires.

(3)The kid should go out and purchase (or rent) as many Hammer movies as possible.Not just vampire movies-if there are other types of monsters out there,the kid will need to know how to deal with those as well.

(4)He should also read P.N.Elrod's The Vampire Files.Not only are they good sources of info,they're also good mystery stories in their own right.

(5)He should get Nosferatu.Preferably the latest (digitally restored) version.

(6)He should read Matheson's The Last Man On Earth.He should also watch the movie version (The Vincent Price version,natch).

(7)He should also get Chill Vampires (either the original Pacesetter version or the Mayfair updated version).He should probably also get the version Of Chill that goes with the book in question.It might be hard to find a copy of even the latest version,but it would be well worth it.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Ok, I'll bite . Why was it a mistake to put communion wafers into the coffin?

[Southern Cross]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Well,for one thing,the wafers wouldn't last long on the grave earth inside a vampire's coffin.Also,a Roman Catholic would probably object to the use of "the body of Christ" in such a manner.

[csyphrett]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

The original Darren McGavin Night Stalker movie is all about hunting a vampire, who has also picked up some tricks.

 

Other monsters can be found in the original television series.

 

CES

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

And what if they aren't "standard" vampires' date=' but ones that, while weaker, can still move around in daylight?[/quote']

 

Light machine guns. Shoot them unil they stop moving, then chuck a phosporous grenade on top of them.

 

If the GM complains about muchkinism, remind him that he's the one who brought daywalkers into it.

[The Monster]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

The problem with most vampire fiction is that the vampires are typically (any more) the protagonist, so they don't encourage people to fight them; sometimes the hunters are just awful human beings, but typically the author just pumps up the vamp until the hunters don't stand a chance.

 

A potential problem with the Horus-worship is that there's no support for it (unless your game world has one); thus, a major source of historical research and 'aid and comfort,' even without specific supernatural power, is largely cut off for the character.

 

As the WW Hunter game (which might be worth checking out for this, even skipping over the emo/wacko stuff) took pains to point out, you can't do this alone. Even a solo fighter needs a network of informants, technicians, medics, bolt holes, etc., etc. If it's good enough for the Dark Knight...

 

 

Some ideas off the top of my head:

--Mirrored glasses/visor, to help prevent that hypnotic gaze. Even if it isn't proof, it will at teast distract them.

--Make sure to armor around the places where big veins run close to the skin (spiked leather around the neck, for instance).

--Big-time light sources: flashlights strapped to the arm, propane lanterns, road flares. He may have night vision, but a lot of vampires really prefer to work in the dark. Plus, they'll be expecting him to rely on the light and might be distracted.

--If guns work, you can try the Hellboy/Underworld ammo, with garlic, et cetera. Personally, I think it's a bit cheesy; kind of like dipping bullets in pepper oil - it does nothing significant to increase the lethality of the round, and all it would really accomplish is to tick off the occasional target you don't kill...and if you shoot a vampire and don't kill it, you neither gain or lose anything by annoying it. Just not worth the effort. If guns work at all, go for the maximum stopping power - vamps rarely wear armor, and they're generally faster and stronger than humans, so it's important to take that advantage away.

--Melee training must focus on defense - avoiding hits, escaping grabs, and so forth. Unless you really are Blade and have equivalent strength and speed, the vampires are going to have a near-insurmountable edge. Colonel Colt's the way, friend, not Bruce Lee - or even Duncan Macleod. (Of course, if guns don't work, then you do what you have to do...)

 

As already mentioned, the find-the-nest-and-nuke-it works best if you can arrange it. I would think there are often mitigating circumstances however, such as apartments/condominiums, secure buildings, and minion guards to deal with.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Funny you should mention Duncan Macleod, I've run a fantasy/steamteck game for just over 2 decades where Highlander type immortals vs. vampires war is always in the background.

 

Start out in the morning do NOT attack at dusk.

Mirrored glasses might help but I won't count too heavily on them.

If there are different breeds of vampire definitely do your homework before engaging research research. No sloppy best guess to the procedure. This can lead to major disaster

Do not keep the potential victim out of the loop or he/she WILL get fanged

If you can get competent believer allies together do it.

Use the vampires weaknesses liberally do not engage it fairly.

Always prepare to the max in case the devil figures out your plan,. He may be way more experienced than you.

major stopping power is good if you can slow him down its really good

Try to engage the vampire on your terms not its to maximize its disadvantages.

know when to retreat and have an avenue of retreat .

Maybe more later.

[yamamura]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Do Not Go Out At Night

Do Not Go Out At Night

Do Not Go Out At Night

 

repeat this mantra and you will be safe from vampires. At night, you should be locked inside your very well hidden, fireproof, fortress like home.

 

Fight vampires during the day. And by fight I mean find out where they sleep and burn it down at 9:30 AM. Or buldoze it to let the sun in. Or fill it with 100 tonnes of concrete.Or call the cops and tell them there's a dead body in the basement.

Do not ever physicly confront a vampire, because they will eat you. Don't be a hero. Don't try to be dirty harry. Don't give them anything like a fair chance. Outright murder of helpless targets is your goal.

 

Someone needs to rep Shoutybloke for me! Good advice!

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Someone needs to rep Shoutybloke for me! Good advice!

 

I tagged him, though we might need a few more people to pitch in before we can generate the power of a Yamamura rep touch.

[Rapier]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

The most important thing is for you to sit down and determine/build typical vampires for your game.

 

The entire vampire genre is so full of various and sundry varieties that it boggles the mind. Some vampires can run around in daylight, drink blood on occasion and live off mineral water from their homeland. Some live off blood and burst into flame at the slightest hint of daylight and are completely comatose during the day. Some build resistance to daylight as they age. etc (ad nauseum).

 

Once you decide what vampires do you can decide how much info to give the players. If they are new at this vampire hunter gig and don't have some kind "teacher" maybe they have a lot of misconceptions.

 

Once you figure out what kind of weaknesses vampires have, some methods will immediately become obvious. Then just let the players use their imagination.

 

However, Vampire$ is an AWEEEEESOME book.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

I prefer the more subtle means of vampire extermination... 12 gauge autoshotgun alternating blessed wood flechette rounds with discarding sabot rounds, the DS rounds to deal with any body armor. then theres the good old fashioned flamethrower. napalm also works wonders... and yes if I was a smart vampire I would always wear at least a kevlar t-shirt or vest.

 

for some humorous but useful ideas on exterminating bloodsuckers, dig up the Bureau 13 novels by Nick Pollotta.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Great stuff from Nick Pollotta.

[David Blue]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Great thread! Thanks everyone for being so helpful and focused on the topic.

 

Now I have enough ideas to tie up a career's worth of EXP, and a reading and film list to justify young "Sword" coming up with all this stuff straight out of the gate.

 

Some of the suggestions I've seen were things I was thinking about anyway, but some weren't, and even when I was thinking along the right lines it's valuable to have the reading list to back up a Tactics skill, and to have my ideas becoming more specific, and prioritized.

 

For examples:

 

Start out in the morning do NOT attack at dusk.

Check.

 

Mirrored glasses might help but I won't count too heavily on them.

Check.

 

If there are different breeds of vampire definitely do your homework before engaging research research. No sloppy best guess to the procedure. This can lead to major disaster.

Check.

 

Do not keep the potential victim out of the loop or he/she WILL get fanged

... I hadn't thought of that one. At all. Write this down in red letters at the top of one of the pages of "Sword's" home-made manual.

 

Do Not Go Out At Night.

Check. I thought of that. But not with a high priority. Make this, and the supporting comments, Page 1.

 

Actually, now that I think of it, write that in Black Chancery small enough to fit all of it on the top of page one, to leave room at the bottom of the same page for: Never send my dearly beloved girlfriend off to run one last errand just before the sun sets. Also, trips to pay respects at her father's grave, if any, should always be pre-arranged outings for two, in the morning.

 

... Also, strongly discourage any thought of buying a dog like the one in Dawn of the Dead (2004). ... she doesn't like dogs. That's good, encourage any dislike there.

 

The problem with most vampire fiction is that the vampires are typically (any more) the protagonist' date=' so they don't encourage people to fight them; sometimes the hunters are just awful human beings, but typically the author just pumps up the vamp until the hunters don't stand a chance.[/quote']

These words you say are so, so true, but there's nothing I can do about that.

 

A potential problem with the Horus-worship is that there's no support for it (unless your game world has one); thus' date=' a major source of historical research and 'aid and comfort,' even without specific supernatural power, is largely cut off for the character.[/quote']

Raises an interesting question of doctrine, what I call the Beni problem, from The Mummy (1999). Sometimes people do really well using any and all religious symbols available. Professor Jones once got to say who betrayed Shiva, and with good effect, even though I doubt that was his god. Other times, like Beni in The Mummy (1999), you haul out your Holy Cross of Jesus and do appropriate prayers for protection, your Zoroastrian symbol next with a prayer in that language, "No. OK.", then the Lucky Buddha with a prayer in Chinese, etcetera - and yet the monster does not seem intimidated by your faith.

 

As the WW Hunter game (which might be worth checking out for this' date=' even skipping over the emo/wacko stuff) took pains to point out, you can't do this alone. Even a solo fighter needs a network of informants, technicians, medics, bolt holes, etc., etc. If it's good enough for the Dark Knight...[/quote']

... It's good enough for me. Yes, though who to trust is always an issue. But it has to be someone. And the "etc." could include dedicated believers in more useful religions, even a priest.

 

I've still got a feeling hieroglyphics and and related knowledge skills might come in handy one day. You never know. So no change of focus there. But one character shouldn't have too many skills like that, unless he's an out and out antiquities buff, I think.

 

--Make sure to armor around the places where big veins run close to the skin (spiked leather around the neck' date=' for instance).[/quote']

Hmm. I hadn't thought of that. I'm not even sure it works. I'm thinking of Blade II (2002) and how Lighthammer's neck armor just helped him to hide his bite till he turned, and since Shadowsoul recommended From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) I just got that and I saw a similar situation ...

 

Important New Doctrine: up-front, pre-arranged, mandatory strip-and-show bite checks (in front of someone of your own sex if available, and definitely not in front of your dearly beloved, who would be too emotionally involved to tell on you) after each scuffle. Don't just ask "Are you fine, or should we all hold you down and hammer a wooden stake through your heart right now?" To which everyone seems to answer "I'm ... fine, with regularly mass fatal consequences.

 

--Big-time light sources: flashlights strapped to the arm' date=' propane lanterns, road flares. He may have night vision, but a lot of vampires really prefer to work in the dark. Plus, they'll be expecting him to rely on the light and might be distracted.[/quote']

Hadn't thought of that one. At all. Good idea.

 

--If guns work' date=' you can try the Hellboy/Underworld ammo, with garlic, et cetera. Personally, I think it's a bit cheesy; kind of like dipping bullets in pepper oil - it does nothing significant to increase the lethality of the round, and all it would really accomplish is to tick off the occasional target you don't kill...and if you shoot a vampire and don't kill it, you neither gain or lose anything by annoying it. Just not worth the effort. If guns work at all, go for the maximum stopping power - vamps rarely wear armor, and they're generally faster and stronger than humans, so it's important to take that advantage away.[/quote']

It's gotta be tried, in case it works. Especially as I suspect there may be be gun-toting thugs whose middle names will be "the" (as in "Vinnie the Fridge" and "Louie the Knife") protecting the Boss of All Bosses, on something like the model of the movie Innocent Blood (1992).

 

--Melee training must focus on defense - avoiding hits' date=' escaping grabs, and so forth. Unless you really are Blade and have equivalent strength and speed, the vampires are going to have a near-insurmountable edge. Colonel Colt's the way, friend, not Bruce Lee - or even Duncan Macleod. (Of course, if guns don't work, then you do what you have to do...)[/quote']

I was already thinking on the right lines here, but now I've got it specifically:

 

Shotgun if available, 1911A1-fu as the usual preferred practical option, Blade-style silvered sword as a backup in case guns don't do the job; learn aikido with +1 use art with sword (and staff?) but mainly for the Martial Dodge and Martial Escape; maybe Running +1", and definitely no Unluck. That will cost a bucket of points - and every one of them wisely spent.

 

As already mentioned' date=' the find-the-nest-and-nuke-it works best if you can arrange it. I would think there are often mitigating circumstances however, such as apartments/condominiums, secure buildings, and minion guards to deal with.[/quote']

I'm pretty much counting on that, in the worst cases. For a start, Las Vegas is a city rich in complications.

 

Always prepare to the max in case the devil figures out your plan. He may be way more experienced than you.

I'm pretty much counting on that too. However, "Sword" is young. He's not young and stupid. That helps.

 

Anyway, what I really wanted, and thanks to all who contributed, were the Key Sources:

 

- VAMPIRE$ by John Steakley - the bedrock of The Way of Sun and Stake

- Chill Vampires, by Pacesetter Games or Mayfair Games

- Bloodhunt & Bloodlinks by Lee Killough

- Dracula by Bram Stoker, annotated version (and now that I think of it the movie Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992))

- Nosferatu (digitally restored DVD)

- Night Stalker (DVD starring Darren McGavin)

- The Vampire Files by P.N.Elrod

- All things Vampire Hunter D

- Sundry Hammer movies on DVD.

- Fright Night, Lost Boys, Return to Salem's Lot, the Dracula 2000 series and Dusk 'til Dawn series, Hellsing, plus Shadowsoul's creative idea list.

- The Last Man On Earth, by Richard Matheson, plus the DVD with Vincent Price.

- Bureau 13 novels by Nick Pollotta

 

That should keep me busy for ages.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Well' date='for one thing,the wafers wouldn't last long on the grave earth inside a vampire's coffin.Also,a Roman Catholic would probably object to the use of "the body of Christ" in such a manner.[/quote']

 

Speaking as a Roman Catholic I have no problem at all with Communion wafers being used to kill vampires.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Someone needs to rep Shoutybloke for me! Good advice!

 

I reped him as soon as I read it. That’s the kind of post that just gets my Monday off to a good start. Of course I nearly spit coffee over the keyboard at work but…

[Southern Cross]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Another thing I forgot to mention was the Vampire Hunter D novels.The first ten have been translated into English from the author's native Japanese,and that's not taking into account the comics & movie adaptations (The latter which are,IMO somewhat imprecise translations of the source material).

They are well worth reading for the setting alone (which can be best described as a fusion of Hammer vampire movies (especially Captain Kronos,Vampire Hunter),Italian spaghetti Westerns and TSR's Gamma World).

[csyphrett]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

Several of the Dresden Files deal with vampires as the villain. There are other authors with the vampire as the dark romantic figure but I haven't read them so I can't reccomend them.

CES

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

I know you said you have all the info you need, but I just stumbled across this thread and had to add my two cents.

A few monster fighting basics:

1) “Nothing lives without a head.” Not always true with monsters but one of the few assumptions that is usually a safe bet. Good for Zombies, Werewolves, and even Vampires in most genres.

2) “Short hair and tight clothes are a must.” That +1” of running may not help if the vamp can grab your ‘useless but cool looking billowing trench coat’ and drag you back into the dark!

3) “Blades don’t need reloading.” While you want to avoid close combat as much as possible, guns will run out of ammo eventually and sometimes your creative solution might just fall through.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Doctrine for beginning vampire slayers?

 

A gaming reference book for all the diferent kinds of vampires one might run into is GURPS Blood Types.

GURPS Blood Types is a look at the vampire in legend . . . and, yes, in history... through the centuries and around the world. It explores dozens of vampiric types, from the traditional Gothic aristocrat to the bizarre African adze to the enigmatic Albanian vyrolakos . . . usable as foes, allies or player characters.