matrix3 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Let's say the PC's have a compound in a zombie PA setting. They have to deal with not only zombie attacks 3-4 times a month, but roving bands of human scavengers and the occasional mutant critter. They have to defend themselves against a variety of foes, but in this PA setting ammo is at a premium. So, what would people recommend as the best all around ammunition? Both for a balance of stopping power vs. portability, and being able to recast the lead and reload their brass? Perhaps something that is usable as both a handgun round and in a rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPheemy Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition If your PCs have any access to Military or National Guard resources, the 5.56N round is incredibly common. I think that it is identical to the .223 Remington rifle round which makes it even more versatile. It doesn't have near the knockdown power of the 7mm and .30 caliber rounds, but it's accurate and the low recoil means a shooter can acquire new headshots quickly. 12 gauge shotgun shells are easily an reliably reloaded, and have wonderful stopping power. The 9mm Parabellum pistol round might be the most available bullet in the world. If you're not in North America, or Western Europe, then the classic AK-47 and it's 7.62 X 39mm Russian round is by far the most common rifle and bullet in the world. It arms everyone from militias to armies to street gangs. And it's virtually indestructible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestrel Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition 9mm ammo is also quite common. Even replacing the .45 ACP round as the dominant small arms round in the U.S. (Blah! Didn't see the entry for 9mm ammo up there. Too early in the morning here! Sorry. ) Shotgun shells can only be reloaded a limited number of times, due to the stress on the materials. That also goes for most brass shells. Iirc, the recommended number of reloads is around 3-5. After that, you risk having the casing split, causing blowback and possibly jamming or destroying your weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Thanks, all. I haven't done any reloads, so I don't know much about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition 10 millimeter explosive tip caseless. <_< >_> What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition 10 millimeter explosive tip caseless. <_< >_> What? Ah, but they also need to use this ammunition to bring in food, and explosive tip rounds tend to decrease the usable yield. Plus, making a new round is a bit problematic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Not to put to sarcastic a spin on this but, any ammo you have that matches the gun you have is the best ammunition. The set up implies that the characters have a limited amount of resources and either deal with traders or scavenge for gear. Either way you go resource management would be vital. Stockpiling whatever firearms you have then sorting out the ammo for them. If we're talking in a sandbox environment for a sidearm I would think that he .357 or .45 would be an easy answer due to popularity and distribution making ammo easy to find, relatively. If you're looking at a rifle .223 Remington or 5.56 again for the reasons listed above. A strategy one might present is using the more common 9 mm round at range where the character is more likely to miss reserving the more effective ammo for when threats get to close. The exception to this would be scavengers and threats capable of using ranged attacks where in you would want to put them down as quickly as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Ah, but they also need to use this ammunition to bring in food, and explosive tip rounds tend to decrease the usable yield. Plus, making a new round is a bit problematic... That and I'm betting no has the M-41A pulse rifle anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Lead balls and black powder --makes for a shallower development curve for your survival industrial base to climb, plus there's 2 18 pounders to start my collection with a few blocks over at 15th RCFA's armoury. Zombies can eat grapeshot 'till we figure out how to make case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Ray Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition I second the black powder idea...great stopping power, ease of technology development, and can be maintained with other ammo...breaking it down, melting rounds into balls, resourcing the gun powder...plus it is loud as hell and will scare the c r a p out of the common critters, low level mutant beasts, as well as the mundane folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition I would give some serious consideration to a large bore revolver round, I'd probably go for .44 Magnum myself as it would be more common than the .45 Colt and offers more range of use than the .357 magnum. You can find revolvers, semi-auto and derringers for handguns, lever action, pump action and bolt action for rifles in any of these calibers. .44 Magnum revolvers can also chamber .44 Special, .44 Russian and .44-40 cartridges. Semi-autos are fussy but if you stick with revolvers and manual action rifles the .44 magnum can be loaded with a light load providing power similar to a .45 ACP (very manageable in a heavy gun like most .44 revolvers) or hot loads that can rival some rifle rounds. Loaded in a rifle it can be loaded even hotter and provide a decent gun for medium to large game. I believe there are some sabot rounds available that would provide better long range performance as well although those would be hard to find. When you start running low on pre-made bullets it is still a useful round using cast lead bullets (and you can scavenge and melt down lead tire weights if you get desperate) A straight case like most pistol rounds would also last longer and is easier to reload, particularly if not loaded towards the upper end of their power. Necked down cartridges like most rifles tend to elongate more thinning the brass. Straight cases would also be more tolerant of black powder since spent cases can be cleaned easier. The only real downside to a large revolver round is range. Even in a rifle you will be limited to about 300 yards, while the 5.56mm can easily remain effective to 500 yards and most .30 military and hunting rounds are effective at 1000 yards. That can easily be dealt with by setting aside a few rifles with ammo better suited to dealing with long range targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Thanks, all. It's a survivalist situation, and they are laying in stock for the impending catastrophe. They decided to lay in a few bolt action rifles that can handle 7.62mm and .308 winchester, with extra barrels for each for any long-range sniping. Most of the work will be done by .357 Magnum. They are getting a number of revolvers, and a bunch of Winchester 94 Ranger Trails End and Trapper Carbines in .357 Mag. I guess one of the players has a long love of this rifle. Both are lever action, and the Trapper is a short barrel, good for between pistol and rifle range. The subject of black powder came up, but I don't think they're expecting the campaign to last that long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Thanks, all. It's a survivalist situation, and they are laying in stock for the impending catastrophe. They decided to lay in a few bolt action rifles that can handle 7.62mm and .308 winchester, with extra barrels for each for any long-range sniping. Most of the work will be done by .357 Magnum. They are getting a number of revolvers, and a bunch of Winchester 94 Ranger Trails End and Trapper Carbines in .357 Mag. I guess one of the players has a long love of this rifle. Both are lever action, and the Trapper is a short barrel, good for between pistol and rifle range. The subject of black powder came up, but I don't think they're expecting the campaign to last that long... Sounds fine, though a few modern black powder rifles would likely be nice to have for hunting etc as well....and bullet molds and plain lead are not hard to obtain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition How does one go about making a gun in a post-holocaust setting? One would think a trained or self-taught gunsmith would be both admired and feared in these settings. Especially if he can make guns that just about anyone can make ammunition for. As time goes by, when the ammunition runs out from leftover pre-apocalypse weapons, these weapons become both more desirable and more useful. The front-loading rifled musket might even make a comeback because it's easier to make bullets and gunpowder separately than to make a cartridge -- especially in times when metals like brass are at a premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestrel Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Here's something else to think of; This question came up in real life when I was in the Army. We all sat around a gaming table one night, while we debated what we would do if a "downfall of civilization" scenario actually happened. A few things were decided: 1. Get the heck out of the city. Not only are food sources going to be limited, but there is going to be a LOT of competition for them. 2. Find someplace fairly isolated if you can. Most people will try to congregate to the population centers in the hope of finding food, ammunition, supplies or people willing to lend a hand. 3. Choose weapons that are good for more than just blowing big holes in people. The idea of surviving is to stay alive. Not engage in numerous gun battles. 4. Don't fort up someplace obvious. As has been proven throughout history, any stronghold can be taken. Keep a low profile, do not attract attention and do not put all your eggs in one basket. We decided that the best ammo to use for hunting would be the good old .22 caliber long rifle. It's good for bringing down most game of a size you will encounter. i.e. squirrels, pidgeons, rabbits and such. You can carry a LOT of it. It makes a fairly low sound when fired. No pesky rolling boom or loud crack when you shoot, which might attract unwanted attention. For actual defense, buying a .357 pistol was considered a good idea, because you can use .38 ammo as well as .357. Rifles were either 5.56/.223, or 30/06. Granted, this is your classic zombie nightmare setting, but I just thought I'd throw this in for the heck of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Someone beat me to mentioning .22s. .22 Long Rifle rimfire is one of the, if not the, most sold ammunition in the world. You can get a variety of handguns and rifles that fire this same ammunition. Does it have the best stopping power? Not by any means. .22 rifles, however, do have very little kick, almost anyone can fire them. You can carry massive amounts of the extremely light, extremely common ammo. They are very quiet compared to most other firearms, which is particularly important in many zombie settings. If fact, the only way you’re going to get much quieter is with silencers or switching to bows/crossbows. The rifles can be accurate to a little over 150 yards. Any party trying to survive a zombie holocaust should have several .22 rifles with scopes, even if they are secondary/backup weapons, and half the party can carry .22 revolvers/pistols without significantly adding to their baggage. Also, if your setting requires headshots to kill zombies the lack of penetration of can make a .22 ideal for headshots especially at short range as it is not uncommon for the round to enter the skull, but lose too much velocity, and instead of exiting, bounce around the skull. Also, for zombie survival everyone should have two fire arms, a rifle or shotgun, and a handgun or sawed-off shotgun for close range. At least one person in the group should have a silenced weapon if possible. If anyone in the group can shoot a recurve or compound bow, start practicing. Recoverable ammo and virtually silent shots. If no one is skilled with bow, try to pick up a crossbow. They’re almost as silent and easier for people used to rifles to become accustomed to firing. It’s generally a good idea for everyone to have a hand weapon just in case. Machetes are ideal. Some of the party may carry tools as their hand weapon, such as a hatchet or crowbar/pry bar, eliminating the need to carry tools and extra weaponry both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition .22 has two problems in this particular setting. One its a rimfire so can't easily be reloaded (it can be but I understand it is not remotely practical). #2 not so hot against roving bands of non zombie aggressors, sure it might kill them but maybe not before they kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Very true and those are very legitimate points. I'll reiterate several points though. Great backup/close range weapons. Quiet. Most prevalent ammunition in the world and it’s extremely light weight. A team should have at least a few .22s within the group, even if they are no one’s primary weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition I agree with its usefulness, it just doesn't really meet the criteria of the original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Let's say the PC's have a compound in a zombie PA setting. They have to deal with not only zombie attacks 3-4 times a month' date=' but roving bands of human scavengers and the occasional mutant critter. They have to defend themselves against a variety of foes, but in this PA setting [b']ammo is at a premium[/b]. So, what would people recommend as the best all around ammunition? Both for a balance of stopping power vs. portability, and being able to recast the lead and reload their brass? Perhaps something that is usable as both a handgun round and in a rifle? I think the .22 deals with everything the OP asks for except stopping power. Ammo at a premium? It's the most common in the world. Portability? It's some of the lightest ammo available and can be used in more weapons than any other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition I'm sticking with my original answer of whatever you can get a hold of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition I'm sticking with my original answer of whatever you can get a hold of. Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. 40 watt? That's less than most incandescent light bulbs. How about 40 terawatt? Of course, then you'd need a special power source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Re: PA Hero -- Best all around ammunition IMHO the best ammo shot placement will be your best advisor will depend on various factors 1 engagement range (at what range do you want to be effective at) 2 resupply on hand(can you practice?,are you just defending from a hidden base or a visible one) 3 basic loadout if traveling(have a long arm and pistol that shoot the same ammo 4 how good a shot are you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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