Chris Goodwin Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Or, what if magic as it's really been written about, worked as described? Actually I might be looking at several magic systems. Alchemy, Thelema/magick, voodoo at the very least. I'd like to err somewhat on the side of fun and playable rather than strict recreations, but I'm willing to go either way. If anyone has any writeups (I'm looking at you, Killer Shrike) or ideas I'm definitely open for suggestions. Incidentally, this is for a potential Western/Urban Fantasy Hero game. I got inspired... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Galdr and Seiðr both pop to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Galdr and Seiðr both pop to mind. Interesting stuff. I may not use it, but repped all the same. Thank you! I should be a bit more specific. I'm looking at Old West era, so maybe magical practices and writings that were extant at that time would work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic To be even more specific, I'm thinking that I'd like to see how magic might have developed under scientific study. By 1876 we're well into the age of science, and that would certainly inform magical thinking and development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic . . . You don't have Ultimate Mystic? Much goodness re. real world magic systems therein, like Hermetic Theurgy, Shamanism, Sadhana, Voodoo . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic There's also http://www.sacred-texts.com/ Specifically http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic . . . You don't have Ultimate Mystic? Much goodness re. real world magic systems therein' date=' like Hermetic Theurgy, Shamanism, Sadhana, Voodoo . . .[/quote'] Generally speaking, that would be my first recommendation as well for translating "real world" magic traditions into HERO gaming terms. Although a relatively small part of the book, The Ultimate Mystic does present magic theory, style elements, game mechanics, and sample spells for a wide variety of styles: Hermetic Theurgy, Shamanism, Sadhana, Voodoo, Alchemy, Necromancy, the Evil Eye, Kabbalism, Mantra-Vidya, Rune Magic, and Taoist Theurgy. Speaking of Voodoo, you might be interested in this Hero Plus PDF of spells for that system from the Hero online store: https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=203102 . Also on the PDF front, The Dragon Mandarin includes a fairly substantial list of magic spells based on magic appearing in real Chinese folklore: https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=198180 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic . . . Ah, before I forget -- does anyone know of any treatments of Onmyodo, the japanese verion of Taoist Theurgy? Spell writeups and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic I do have The Ultimate Mystic and was just looking at it last night. I had forgotten what was in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarragon Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Spiritualism with it's trappings of mediums and séance, moving objects and ectoplasm was going strong at this point in time. Modern spiritualism blends faeries into the mix and they are also appropriate to the time frame, but not necessarily the setting. And if your dealing with a western setting you'll definitely need to deal with Native American shamanism. While I've never thought about a writeup of any of these they could be fun to deal with in game. Spiritualism implies a lot of things about the existence of ghosts and their abilities. Native American mysticism includes the Ghost Dance and Medicine men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odraude Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic If you need help with alchemy, I have a massive knowledge of alchemy from my time researching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic You might want to look at what I'm doing for my book Inceptum Terminus: Chronicles of the New Confederation since it has Hermetic Theurgy, Voodoo, Shamanism, and Kabbalism. You can read about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic theres a book I am borrowing from a friend called "The Science of the Craft" by William H Keith[yep... the artist and author] whos also a practicing druid among other things. its sadly out of print, but I keep hearing its an interesting take on science and magic together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrito Boy Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Spiritualism with it's trappings of mediums and séance, moving objects and ectoplasm was going strong at this point in time. Modern spiritualism blends faeries into the mix and they are also appropriate to the time frame, but not necessarily the setting. And if your dealing with a western setting you'll definitely need to deal with Native American shamanism. While I've never thought about a writeup of any of these they could be fun to deal with in game. Spiritualism implies a lot of things about the existence of ghosts and their abilities. Native American mysticism includes the Ghost Dance and Medicine men. For spiritualism, check out the writings of Madame Helena Blavatsky. Also look into Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's writing on the subject and Harry Houdini's debunking of seances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic another book suggestion, find a copy of "authentic thaumaturgy" by Isaac bonnewitz, which was about using real world magical traditions in a fantasy setting, not sure its even still in print, but Steve Jackson Games published one edition iirc. I stand corrected its still available in pdf format from the E-23 store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Native American mysticism includes the Ghost Dance and Medicine men. The Ghost Dance was a specific religious practice of some Paiute and Lakota. Don't think it spread much beyond that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic For spiritualism' date=' check out the writings of Madame Helena Blavatsky. [/quote'] We've got a branch of the Theosophical Society not that far from where I used to live. Interesting place to visit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic another book suggestion' date=' find a copy of "authentic thaumaturgy" by Isaac bonnewitz, which was about using real world magical traditions in a fantasy setting, not sure its even still in print, but Steve Jackson Games published one edition iirc. I stand corrected its still available in pdf format from the E-23 store.[/quote'] Or perhaps better yet Real Magic which some people have said is ironically better role playing source material than the book he wrote specifically as role playing source materiel. Lucius Alexander Evoking a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted May 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Or perhaps better yet Real Magic which some people have said is ironically better role playing source material than the book he wrote specifically as role playing source materiel. Lucius Alexander Evoking a palindromedary I'm the one who said that. I have both of those books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic If you want to deal with folk religions and magical practices of freed slaves spreading out from the South to homestead in the Old West and such, Zora Neal Hurston's work would be great to research for background flavor. I'd recommend Mules and Men in particular. (I'd advise buying or borrowing a printed copy though. The online version I linked to has far more typographical errors than I recall reading in college.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic We've got a branch of the Theosophical Society not that far from where I used to live. Interesting place to visit... I'm a Bay Area, California native, which means the San Jose Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum and Planetarium (and Research Library, which is FAR cooler but much less publicized) has always been a part of my life. I remember going there for birthday parties when I was, like, 8... because Crypts and Mummies are COOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic If you want to deal with folk religions and magical practices of freed slaves spreading out from the South to homestead in the Old West and such' date=' Zora Neal Hurston's work would be great to research for background flavor. I'd recommend Mules and Men in particular. quote] Hi guys. Would you believe I joined this board just to comment on this particular thread? Would you believe I haven't played an rpg is almost a decade but still buy the books regularly? Sad, I know. Anway. Zora Neal Hurston's two work on the subject (another being an article entitled "Hoodoo in America") has come under a lot of attack lately as an authentic source. On the one hand, she was an African-American woman which allowed her greater access to mysteries of hoodoo than any previous, serious, white scholar. On the otherhand, evidence (especially in terms of her "initiations") of her plagerizing known spell books abound, as well as evidence of exageration (the question is, to what extent?) As I doubt any of us could get our hands on Hyatt's five volume set Hoodoo-Conjuration-Witchcraft-Rootwork, might I suggest some alternatives? Catherine Yronwood is a good place to start. Marlbrough also, but only Charms Spells and Formulas, and you'll have to work to dig out the Seax-Wicca influences. Ignore his other works, useless. Rootwork by McQuillar is a good start too. If you want history and context, more, serious, books are being published now than ever before. You don't even have to look hard. I think Hoodoo is a great idea for use in a campaign, be it Urban Fantasy, or Pulp. I'm not so sure about Fantasy though. It might serve as a great inspiration for shamanic types though. Anyway, hope I helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic Or, what if magic as it's really been written about, worked as described? Who says it doesn't? *cough* My first thought is, "That's a big subject." The best I think you can shoot for is being inspired and informed by real world magick. How do you model "Success on a different level" without being thought of the same way as that D&D DM who intentionally misinterperted Wish spells? How fun is Golden Dawn style ceremonial magick, if, to make it effective, it has to be done at a certain time, takes a while to perform, and then takes a while to actually work? How comfortable are you with your PC's engaging in ritual sex acts as in Thelema? Even relatively straight forward systems like Chaos magick have an ikyness factor you and your players may not be ready for, but cannot be removed unless you want to drop the label "Authentic." On the other hand, being a practitioner, it's way easy for me to overthink the subject. I'm very interested in any ideas you come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic I'm a Bay Area' date=' California native, which means the San Jose Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum and Planetarium (and Research Library, which is FAR cooler but much less publicized) has always been a part of my life. I remember going there for birthday parties when I was, like, 8... because Crypts and Mummies are COOL.[/quote'] Heck, I went those places in my late 20's and it was still cool. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Re: Magic system wanted -- historical magic I'm the one who said that. I have both of those books. Yeah, I have "Authentic Thaumaturgy" and it's really not useful. Pedantic, poorly written - you'd be better off with some history texts, and a few novels like The Phoenix and The Mirror or the Dragon Waiting for flavour. As for using "traditional" european magic in a game setting, I've done just that, in my Immortals game, and it worked really, really well. Several players specifically commented on how much they liked the flavour of the magic system. The basic idea - not hard to convey to players - is that magic is not the D&D style approach with the mage as mobile artillery platform, but more ... well, traditional. Mages are scholars as much as anything and if you want someone dead, it's usually easier to stab them (or hire someone else to stab them) than to go through all the magic rigmarole. On the other hand, if you want immortality, unlimited wealth, to control the weather or to learn the secrets of dead kings ... for those things, you need a mage. I have the magic system I used posted here. I'm using a slightly more caster-friendly version in my current campaign. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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