Manouevre and combat bonuses

[Doc Democracy]

I was thinking when looking at the damage class thread about the relationship HERO has with defences and damage.

 

There is a common trend among GMs to award bonuses to hit when people come up with interesting manoeuvres or situational advantages rather than bonuses to damage.

 

What are thoughts on offering players +2 to hit OR +2D6 to damage for an interesting manouevre (damage limited to original maximum - so a 10D6 attack will not do more than 60 STUN or 20 BODY under such bonuses)??

 

Often a bit extra damage will make more difference in combat than an extra +2 to hit...

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I was thinking when looking at the damage class thread about the relationship HERO has with defences and damage.

 

There is a common trend among GMs to award bonuses to hit when people come up with interesting manoeuvres or situational advantages rather than bonuses to damage.

 

What are thoughts on offering players +2 to hit OR +2D6 to damage for an interesting manouevre (damage limited to original maximum - so a 10D6 attack will not do more than 60 STUN or 20 BODY under such bonuses)??

 

Often a bit extra damage will make more difference in combat than an extra +2 to hit...

 

 

Doc

 

How about offering bonus skill levels then they can choose to apply them as OCV, DCV or damage?

 

On the subject of skill levels I think they ought to have another use: I think they should be useable as lightning reflexes (and lightning reflexes should be cheaper).

[Alibear]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I often let the player get a surprise bonus halving his opponents dcv.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I often let the player get a surprise bonus halving his opponents dcv.

 

Yeah, but have you ever thought of proving a surprise bonus of 2x STUN?

[Alibear]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

If the poor sap is just sat reading the paper, minding his own business and a dastradly PC sneaks up behind him, aye. Not if the fella is in combat already though.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

If the poor sap is just sat reading the paper' date=' minding his own business and a dastradly PC sneaks up behind him, aye. Not if the fella is in combat already though.[/quote']

 

The way the system works, halving DCV may effectively not make a huge difference to the chance to hit - 70% to 90% but improving the damage done might make the difference between hitting and hitting and doing something significant.

 

I'm leaning towards damage bonuses (even if not to the 2x STUN level - though that seemed the combat equivalent to 1/2 DCV).

 

I am thinking that if I encourage creative thinking that the rewards should contribute to significantly shorter combats...

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

On the subject of skill levels I think they ought to have another use: I think they should be useable as lightning reflexes (and lightning reflexes should be cheaper).

 

You trying to derail my thread Waters?!

[Alibear]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I have already skewed damage and defences in favour of attacks doing more damage.

 

Damage dealt is around 15d and a one off or difficult to preform super attack in the 20d range.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I often let the player get a surprise bonus halving his opponents dcv.

 

Yeah' date=' but have you ever thought of proving a surprise bonus of 2x STUN?[/quote']

 

This is an interesting issue. Right now, surprise maneuvers are far more effective against a high DCV opponent, who I otherwise would have trouble hitting, than a low DCV, high defense opponent who I'll hit anyway but have a tough time damaging.

 

It seems much easier to bump my OCV, through maneuvers, or by spreading at the expense of damage, but there is no way to go the other way and take a penalty on hitting to enhance my damage, unless we are using the hit location rules. Those rules are commonly used only in games where the CV spread is not all that substantial. Perhaps there should be a more common way to sacrifice OCV in order to enhance damage

[Sean Waters]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

You trying to derail my thread Waters?!

 

:help:I'm a train wreck waiting to happen - but the idea of handing out bonus skill leves for that action rather than a set bonus might accomplish what you want as you can use skill levels to increase damage if you like.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

The idea has merit. Many years ago the GM I played with gave you an option if you got a critical hit (rolled a 3):

Maximum Damage

Head Shot

None Of The Above

 

Even in games not using Hit Locations you could take the Head Shot option, but mostly we played Fantasy Hero with Hit Locations.

 

It worked nicely. I think the idea of giving someone a little extra oomph to an attack for whatever reason (luck of the dice, creative description, etc) is a good one to embrace.

[Alibear]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

We had similar. Hit by half or less of what you need to hit gives max damage.

 

If you had ocv 6 and your opponent had a dcv of 5 you'd need to roll a 6 or less to get a 'crit'.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

In our campaigns, if you wanted to do extra damage with a fancy manuever, you used the OCV bonus provided by the surprise to offset the penalty for a placed shot. That always seems reasonable to me.

 

However, cinematically I would agree it follows that a surprise blow does extra damage, even if the attack shouldn't be all that effective. Giving damage bonuses might encourage players to fight more creatively instead of just relying on their highest DC attack every time.

 

On that cinematic train of thought, one might also make it easier to stun an opponent with a surprise attack, even if the damage isn't spectacular. How many times have you seen in the movies the hero being throttled by the big tough guy and the only way he can manage to escape is by whacking him with a bottle or other handy implement? In any campaign I have ever played, no one would do such a thing because a bottle simply doesn't do much damage, but yet it always seems to make the big tough guy let go in the movies. Just a thought.

[pinecone]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

The way the system works, halving DCV may effectively not make a huge difference to the chance to hit - 70% to 90% but improving the damage done might make the difference between hitting and hitting and doing something significant.

 

I'm leaning towards damage bonuses (even if not to the 2x STUN level - though that seemed the combat equivalent to 1/2 DCV).

 

I am thinking that if I encourage creative thinking that the rewards should contribute to significantly shorter combats...

 

Doc

 

Well 1/2 DCV can seriously increase damage....Rapid attack, sweep, and MPA's. And most folks won't let a "low DCV moment" pass without trying to push....not to mention putting levels into damage instead of OCV....

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

Surprise Haymaker?…

[handleyj]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I just recently started GMing a Champions game, and we've noticed that missing an attack is the exception. Most attacks hit. So giving out extra damage for surprise maneuvers would be a much better bonus as far as we're concerned. Of course I know there are ways to make people miss more often, but we're keeping things simple at the moment. I think I like Sean's idea the best, but I probably wouldn't call them "Bonus CSLs." But yeah the idea would work the same.

[Greywind]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

Lately, if the players are even and they need an 11-, they miss. Regularly.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Manouevre and combat bonuses

 

I liken this sort of thing to a rich and fattening dessert. It's a great thing for topping off a fight, but not something you want to start with or use all the time.

 

I don't want the bonuses to consistently be awarded to the player with the biggest DVD collection who can pull references from movies the rest of the group hasn't heard of. Best to limit the number of times each character can draw from this well per game.

 

YMMV.