WWYCD: HE is not himself.

[Patriot]

The Other super heros in the city have stumbled upon the fact that the current incarnation of your hero isn't the real deal.

 

In 1993 the Supergroup visited hell, to release the soul of a fallen hero. It went marginally well. What wasn't know is that when they returned, the power of the plane of hell, ( Asmodeus , for arguments sake) , Cloistered your hero away, and sent a duplicate in his place.

 

For the last 16 years, you hero has been replaced by a new duplicate, the amount of good he has done, and has been exposed to has made him (actually a unholy creation) like being good.

 

Until the last replacement, who has sent the local Supergroup on wild goose chase, made deals with "The Duchess" of Viper, And worse yet , is in talks with Luthor Blacks immediate minions(these parts , are not fully exposed as of yet).

 

Meanwhile Your hero , Who is a classic 500 point Superman styled brick , bides his time waiting with a sliver of hope that either he can find a away out , or someone will realize that hes still down there.

 

Question #1 :Out of game: If he was rescued, would you want to play him at his current point level (A lot, 1900+), would you be willing to run him at 500 points, or somewhere in between ( we can assume he wasn't sitting on a rock for 16 years, he may have made himself useful in a good way somehow).

 

Question #2 : In game: Besides not being totally in line with current events, How would you play him? Would he be a broken man? Would he Return as the 4 color hero he once was?

[Clonus]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Such a plot twist is used in comics to retcon a bunch of developments better left forgotten. Some character crosses the moral event horizon so the writers say "Ahahaha, it wasn't really him, it was his robot duplicate or skrull imposter, right?"

 

It works the same way in games. If I've somehow messed up massively and want to erase the badness, or the GM is starting a new game and I want to play my old character, but he wants everyone to start out at a point level that would erase my accumulated experience... then go with this kind of twist.

 

As for how I'd play the character, probably as demoralized to start with. Its been through a terrible experience.

[Badger]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

This might be one of those WWYCDs that would cause me to beat up the GM.

 

Though, I have never played a classic 4-color hero. (My favorite WWYCDs would probablt be classified as anti-heroes. ) And playing pure bricks frankly bores me. I could do how my actual characters would do if you like.

 

Badger- Given his Christian background on his mother's side I wouldnt be comfortable with him being trapped in hell (though he is obviously lapsed a bit so.....). Probably would just be merciless bad@$$. (not that he was exactly compassionate before, being a reformed villain, hey, I did say lapsed). Wouldnt think twice about killing anymore (though he only did to make the boyscout of a leader happy in the first place). Given the nature of his powers and the fact of how he technically increases his powers, through harsh training. It would be logical to assume he would have th same power level as the others current levels (possibly even remarkably higher though that would be game unbalance) because well he would have free time and the enviroment would be kind of harsh.

 

Frosty Bob- not much different actually. Probably will have a follower (a 3-headed pet dog who he calls Cuddles. ) Might give him some new weapons (envisioning some cool "hellgun" posibilities). He did figure if he did actually die (immortal) that he probably wasnt going to the good place. ANd it takes a bit to faze him. BEsides, he had visited before. The Devil is one of his poker buddies after all. (ok not really on the last one) I guess it would be appropriate to take the "humor" out of him. But, it just wouldnt be fun to play anymore. He was partly created to mock some of those humorless, unkillable gunbunnies in comics after all.

[Naanomi]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

The Economaster would probably have done quite well in 'the realm of dark spirits' (as she would classify it)... Her master is not entirely without power there after all. I would suspect that her powers would continue to develop reasonably in such a setting.

 

Her personality would be a bit darker on returning perhaps. Long term exposure to the wonders of the Multi-versal soul trade would not have been healthy for her attitude... though in the long run her assigned purview would still be the global economy of Earth. In the very least, if anyone ever needed a renegotiation of their 'Soul Contract' she would likely come back with those skills.

[Zed-F]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

This scenario would not work for either of the characters I normally write up in WWYCDs without some significant changes. Soulbarb already has her own ties to the infernal realm and working though the implications thereof and her own issues and hangups regarding those ties is a critical part of her character development. Sylph already has similar ties in the other direction -- specifically to the Greek Pantheon in general and Dionysius in particular -- and she couldn't simply disappear into Hell for 16 years without this fact being noticed and dealt with.

 

In general, plots that make characters' actions over the last X amount of time null and void (i.e. it wasn't really him) need to be tailored to the PC and vetted by the player before they are at all welcome.

[sinanju]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

None of my characters have been active (in-game) long enough for them to have been replaced by a duplicate for the last sixteen years. So the question is moot.

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Step 1) Locate large blunt object.

 

Step 2) Pummel GM repeatedly with said object.

 

 

 

If something like this was done to one of my PCs without my knowledge, it would be grounds for instantly quiting the campaign. (And yes, I've got a character who has been in play long enough for this scenario; I've been playing Zl'f - albeit originally under a different name - since 1992).

[Certified]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Step 1) Locate large blunt object.

 

Step 2) Pummel GM repeatedly with said object.

 

 

 

If something like this was done to one of my PCs without my knowledge, it would be grounds for instantly quiting the campaign. (And yes, I've got a character who has been in play long enough fot this scenario; I've been playing Zl'f - albeit originally under a different name - since 1992).

 

Mind if I ask why?

[sinanju]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Mind if I ask why?

 

Same reason as if he told me, "Oh, by the way--your character was killed in his very first combat in the first game session. Everything he thinks he's experienced since then was a dying delusion."

 

Or, "Your character doesn't exist. He's a fantasy in the mind of a guy named Fred who's confined to a mental hospital for having killed twelve people during a psychotic break when he thought they were 'supervillains'."

 

For the same reason the GM might be a bit peeved to learn that his players have been getting together regularly to mock his NPCs, his plots, his "acting" out of NPC characters, etc. They don't actually play in his game because it's an exciting series of adventures; they're doing it to laugh at him.

[Certified]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Same reason as if he told me, "Oh, by the way--your character was killed in his very first combat in the first game session. Everything he thinks he's experienced since then was a dying delusion."

 

Or, "Your character doesn't exist. He's a fantasy in the mind of a guy named Fred who's confined to a mental hospital for having killed twelve people during a psychotic break when he thought they were 'supervillains'."

 

For the same reason the GM might be a bit peeved to learn that his players have been getting together regularly to mock his NPCs, his plots, his "acting" out of NPC characters, etc. They don't actually play in his game because it's an exciting series of adventures; they're doing it to laugh at him.

 

Reading the post I'm not sure it's intended to be malicious. The first thing it made me think of was the Dark Phoenix Saga. That is to say you're character has been out there heroing it up and at some point was swapped by another entity that took their place. All the actions they've taken so far have been corrupting the dark intent of the doppelganger as the nature by the simple attempt to emulate your character they have essentially shrived for salvation. More interestingly, unlike the Dark Phoenix where Jean Grey was the original character has been active fighting the good fight while trapped in a hostile (,very) location.

 

Maybe this appeals to the writer in me since it's left ambiguous and the poster left it open to tell a new story of the adventures of the original hero while in exile. Admittedly I am looking at this from a rather analytical viewpoint and may not have the emotional investment in the character another player may have. That said, I would be highly disappointed if this was the climax of the arc and there was no follow up. What I would like to see are stories trying to reconcile the hero with his clone and confronting the source of said clone. To use the names of the poster, taking on the newest doppelganger with his predecessor who had been a hero then later confrontation Asmodous with the aid of the reformed demon imposter.

[Badger]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Well, to be truthful, I am with Trebuchet. (though I generally try to answer WWYCDs no matter what. ) I hate....no I HATE such stunts in comics or any other genre for that matter. (*cough Dallas cough*). If I had been around paying attention to Infinite Crisis. My response after it was over to the comic company would be "Bye".

[Badger]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Reading the post I'm not sure it's intended to be malicious. The first thing it made me think of was the Dark Phoenix Saga. That is to say you're character has been out there heroing it up and at some point was swapped by another entity that took their place. All the actions they've taken so far have been corrupting the dark intent of the doppelganger as the nature by the simple attempt to emulate your character they have essentially shrived for salvation. More interestingly, unlike the Dark Phoenix where Jean Grey was the original character has been active fighting the good fight while trapped in a hostile (,very) location.

 

Maybe this appeals to the writer in me since it's left ambiguous and the poster left it open to tell a new story of the adventures of the original hero while in exile. Admittedly I am looking at this from a rather analytical viewpoint and may not have the emotional investment in the character another player may have. That said, I would be highly disappointed if this was the climax of the arc and there was no follow up. What I would like to see are stories trying to reconcile the hero with his clone and confronting the source of said clone. To use the names of the poster, taking on the newest doppelganger with his predecessor who had been a hero then later confrontation Asmodous with the aid of the reformed demon imposter.

 

Generally though, I interpret such plot devices as the writer has either gotten lazy or bored.

[bubba smith]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

me, i'd take it at that point to mean either my character or i myself wasn't wanted at the gaming sessions, after the others left [to avoid makeing a scene]which id ask the gm which one was the case and if i wasn't wanted i'd offer to leave the group

[Patriot]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

OK, to get over the onforseen beating myself with a stick hurdle.

 

I have ran Patriot since march of 1991.

 

Back then there was a different GM

 

I am running the show currently, but My time is nearly up (not by a vote or anything, but I have less and less time these days) .

 

No GM in there right mind would let me run Patriot, as is, he could fight Superman to a stand still.

 

I love the character , and my final plot will be the most hideous Luther Black/DEMON scenario in the demon source book with this retcon woven in so (when) if someone else decides to run the game, There might be a chance that I can run him once again.

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Mind if I ask why?

Because in essence I'd have been playing someone else's character. That might be acceptable for a few sessions (say running a doppelganger in cooperation with the GM)' date=' [i']15 years[/i] is 5 times as long as the average Champions campaign lasts. IMO such a stunt indicates a desire by the GM to screw with a particular player in a very nasty and mean-spirited way. Either the GM doesn't want me or my PC playing in his campaign. And he'd get his wish because he'd have neither once I found out.

 

This is no different than when 20 years ago a new female PC of mine was raped (literally) on her first adventure because the GM wanted to see what he could get away with. I picked up my books and dice, walked out, and never played with that GM again. It's an abuse of the player, not the character.

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

OK, to get over the onforseen beating myself with a stick hurdle.

 

I have ran Patriot since march of 1991.

 

Back then there was a different GM

 

I am running the show currently, but My time is nearly up (not by a vote or anything, but I have less and less time these days) .

 

No GM in there right mind would let me run Patriot, as is, he could fight Superman to a stand still.

 

I love the character , and my final plot will be the most hideous Luther Black/DEMON scenario in the demon source book with this retcon woven in so (when) if someone else decides to run the game, There might be a chance that I can run him once again.

A spectacular plot twist for a character with full cooperation between the GM and player is a different thing. As long as the player has major input, I see no reason not to allow such things. Think of it as a John Byrne-like depowering of Superman. It's all right as long as the player is OK with it and knows it's coming.

[sinanju]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

eading the post I'm not sure it's intended to be malicious.

 

I don't think it's intended maliciously either. That doesn't mean that the player of the character in question won't be righteously pissed off. The GM is telling him, in effect, that he's been playing an unknowing dupe for all those years, a character who is NOT the character he'd intended/wanted to play.

 

OK, to get over the onforseen beating myself with a stick hurdle.

 

I have ran Patriot since march of 1991.

 

Back then there was a different GM

 

I am running the show currently, but My time is nearly up (not by a vote or anything, but I have less and less time these days) .

 

No GM in there right mind would let me run Patriot, as is, he could fight Superman to a stand still.

 

I love the character , and my final plot will be the most hideous Luther Black/DEMON scenario in the demon source book with this retcon woven in so (when) if someone else decides to run the game, There might be a chance that I can run him once again.

 

And that makes all the difference. You'd be doing it to your OWN character, not to someone else's without their knowledge or consent. I'd have no objection to this.

[Badger]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

A spectacular plot twist for a character with full cooperation between the GM and player is a different thing. As long as the player has major input' date=' I see no reason not to allow such things. Think of it as a John Byrne-like depowering of Superman. It's all right as long as the player is OK with it and knows it's coming.[/quote']

 

Which sounds fair.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Step 1) Locate large blunt object.

 

Step 2) Pummel GM repeatedly with said object.

 

 

 

If something like this was done to one of my PCs without my knowledge, it would be grounds for instantly quiting the campaign. (And yes, I've got a character who has been in play long enough fot this scenario; I've been playing Zl'f - albeit originally under a different name - since 1992).

 

Replace Zl'f with Black Cat, and the date to 1989, and you have my response exactly.

 

And if a GM came to me with the idea of getting my input on whether or not I wanted to have this plot run (rather than just dropping it on me) I would tell him absolutely not.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

A spectacular plot twist for a character with full cooperation between the GM and player is a different thing. As long as the player has major input' date=' I see no reason not to allow such things. Think of it as a John Byrne-like depowering of Superman. It's all right as long as the player is OK with it and knows it's coming.[/quote']

 

I agree there.

 

I ran that for 'Cat a while back - I wanted to get rid of her superpowers (Darkforce) and wanted to be just a normal extreme level martial artists. I came to the GM and said "I want to run a background plot where 'Cat gets killd, comes back but possessed by her powers, goes evil because of that, gets depowered, and has a revelation about her martial arts as a radiation acccident".

 

The GM ran that in the background for about 2 years. I loved it.

 

If that had been done to me without my consent I would have walked.

 

Player input is the big thing on major things like this.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Question #1 :Out of game: If he was rescued, would you want to play him at his current point level (A lot, 1900+), would you be willing to run him at 500 points, or somewhere in between ( we can assume he wasn't sitting on a rock for 16 years, he may have made himself useful in a good way somehow).

Riot (fka Nemesis6) - (OOC) I would want to play him as the 500pt version.

 

Question #2 : In game: Besides not being totally in line with current events, How would you play him? Would he be a broken man? Would he Return as the 4 color hero he once was?

Riot (fka Nemesis6) - (IC) would be driven by Revenge and the need to establish himself. Riot would be a hero.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[Kal'El Wayne]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

If the GM asked me could he run this story with my character, and I didn't mind (it would depend on the character I was playing), then I would want to keep playing the experienced guy who turned out to be a devil replica, and pay a few points toward having the original as a 'sidekick' who would be treated as a mentor. Like how Batman, being the current 'normal guy with training' of the JSA, treats Catman, the original 'normal guy with training' of the JSA, in Earth 2, despite Catman being much lower points cost than Batman.

 

As for how would Powerful Demon Self react to the revelation that he was a demon replacement? He'd shrug and carry on being the same superhero he always thought he was. Except, he might start reading up more on Demons, just out of casual interest.

 

As for how would normal, dead for many years, original hero react to his long stay in Hell? Well, he either tried to rehabilitate the demons and sinners, or he just found it really not that bad, and relaxed for a decade or so. Either way, he just laughs about it. And no, he's not just covering the pain. He really does think that Hell is that weak.

[Drhoz]

Re: WWYCD: HE is not himself.

 

Not completely implausible for Vitus. He's been to hell. Indeed, he worked in a bar there. And it might go some way to explaining his behavior back in the real world...

 

...if it wasn't for the fact that the 'real' Vitus is just as much an appalling bastard as the demonic duplicate running around.

 

Playing a less experienced version would be fine. First item on the agenda after escape from Hell would be find the duplicate and have his liver for breakfast. A pause for reflection would at least give the real Vitus a chance to weigh up everything the duplicate has done, and decide whether 'good deeds' outweigh 'organ-based snack'