How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Cygnia:

He's alright, I guess.

I don't hang around him, as he's the PC who plays Harry's friend.

You can see why I don't know what to do with him!

 

-SC

[Clonus]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

This comment made squick so badly, you have no idea

 

Vondy:

It's kind of strange, as he doesn't really do ANYTHING if I give him slack. He prefers to follow the group around, but won't do much besides fight.

In a combat though, he's really different, as he very uh... vibrantly describes what he's doing and how he's hurting people. I'm not that much of a detail freak with combats, so I just nod and say "uh... sounds painful."

 

Ah. Then he's just a combat monster. Nothing you do is going to work on one of those guys because he's only interested in combat and he's come up with a character who has a justification for omitting any social interaction for that reason. His dissatisfaction is just with the lack of combat.

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Clonus:

That's what I had written him off as.

I must admit, it might be that he doesn't have detective skills, or social skills. I'm not sure...

I've tried talking to him, but it's a little uncomfortable, as I don't really know the guy and all... (I'm slightly timid...)

 

-SC

[Odraude]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

He hogtied a teenage girl that was the victim? There is something wrong there. Honestly, what hero does that? Not even the Punisher does that. You have to have a nice talk about that and include the consequences for mistreating a civilian like that. There is a line between loner and sociopath.

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Odraude:

Well, in game, the party leader did have a talk of sorts with him, and he hasn't done anything uh... so blatant since (of course I did stop throwing vulnerable NPC's his way...)

As for consequences, well, they did eventually save the girl, and she's still scared of him to this day (displaced guilt? Not sure if it'll work, but I tried!) so I hope it made an impact...

 

-SC

[Odraude]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Odraude:

Well, in game, the party leader did have a talk of sorts with him, and he hasn't done anything uh... so blatant since (of course I did stop throwing vulnerable NPC's his way...)

As for consequences, well, they did eventually save the girl, and she's still scared of him to this day (displaced guilt? Not sure if it'll work, but I tried!) so I hope it made an impact...

 

-SC

 

I'm thinking legal action, maybe the citizens being openly hostile, or maybe the NPC is the relative of a super that now want revenge.

 

I had a similar problem with a PC that made a loner that really seemed to go out of his way to sabotage non-combat role playing. I had tried similar ideas to try and get them more involved, but in the end he would just sabotage RP. One time, they were talking to a female secretary about where a senator was. She was just about to get his itinerary when he (i kid you not) flipped the table on her and threatened her, later on saying that it was to help "interrogate". That was my last straw. Next game, he woke up to a nice amount of police officers and his teammate arresting him and I kicked him from the game.

 

Granted, this was an extreme case. I think all you have to do is sit down confidently and say "Hey, we gotta talk about your treatment of NPCs and such"

 

Od

 

Blunt force GM for hire.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

In a combat though' date=' he's really different, as he very uh... vibrantly describes what he's doing and how he's hurting people. I'm not that much of a detail freak with combats, so I just nod and say "uh... sounds painful."[/quote']

Then went on to a full X-rated description of what he thought of Dreamy and our lady Mage.

BloodClaw then took out a handkerchief from his pocket, knotted it up (he made sure to tell me what kind of knot, which is just only SORT OF creepy), and gags her. He then proceeds to hog-tie her

The player kind of sounds like a dick, tbh. He's only interested in violence and sex. He sounds like he's got a mental age of 14. The sort of person who really likes Wolverine because he goes snickety-snick and reads Gor books. He reminds me of Beavis & Butthead or Jay & Silent Bob.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

There are two reasons you end up with loner characters. Scenario A is that the player just likes the concept. Fair enough. Scenario B is that the player himself is a bit of a loner and so doesn't interact well. Sad perhaps, but it happens. The big problem is that loner characters tend to be boring for everybody.

 

So my suggestion is this. First of all, point out to the player that in the comics, even though Wolverine is a loner, that he has thought bubbles explaining what is going on inside his head all the time, even if he only actually speaks occasionally. That is what really gives him character and makes him interesting.

 

Now have the player do the same thing. Write down the exact thoughts going through his head. Not "I am a loner so go away" but more like

 

"Why are these people annoying me with their prattle about going to a ball game when there are people dying in the streets? Where are their priorities? Of course I am living hand to mouth under a bridge, where are my priorities? Do I have to take care of myself before I can help other people?"

 

or perhaps "Damn, I have been so absorbed in hiding from the Brotherhood of the Scarlet Hand that I haven't bathed in a month, these superheroes must think I'm some sort of schizo. Maybe I am..."

 

The GM should read what the loner writes about, because someone needs to know obviously. The GM should share with the other players as is deemed fit; even if the character doesn't understand why loner hero acts this way, at least the player will and that will help out a lot. Writing this way emulates the thought bubbles in the comics, and so takes care of scenario A from a gaming standpoint. Writing is also easier than explaining yourself outloud, which will hopefully address scenario B. As a bonus, writing stuff down is also a good way for players to utilize time during long combats when things get bogged down or when the focus of the games is on another player at the time.

 

Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

Having the player write out the character's thoughts also ties nicely into the psi in the group.

 

He hogtied a teenage girl that was the victim? There is something wrong there. Honestly' date=' what hero does that? Not even the Punisher does that. You have to have a nice talk about that and include the consequences for mistreating a civilian like that. There is a line between loner and sociopath.[/quote']

 

OK, what I see here is Glowing PC Tattoo Syndrome. My characters react to NPC's and PC's identically. PC's don't get special dispensation because my character has "Detect PC".

 

You don't bathe and you're anti-social? You better bring something beneficial to the table, or I have no reason to put up with you.

 

You hogtied and gagged a teenage victim because you can't be bothered to talk with her? Time to explain to the girl how assault charges work - and I'll do my best to take Claws in if it comes to that. You're perving out on my character? She'll react like I would expect her to react to anyone behaving in that manner.

 

You may just find your character gets to express his loner personality at its ultimate extreme - he'll be in solitary confinement. Maybe your next character will be a better fit in the game.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Not worth the effort.

 

The GM and the rest of the group prefer playstyle A, he wants playstyle Z. Tell him that you understand he only seems to enjoy Z, but everyone else likes A and that's what you intend to run. If he wants to try A (probably with a newer, more appropriate character) you'll give it a shot, otherwise he might want to find another game more suitable to his preferences.

 

If I'm running a low powered fantasy campaign, three players want to play in a low powered fantasy campaign, and a fourth player wants to play Star Trek, it's not fair to the others to cram Star Trek into the campaign just for him while he ignores all the fantasy stuff. Same thing with excessively disparate playstyle preferences.

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Odraude, Doug McCrae, Hugh Neilson, Supreme Serpent:

Oh thank goodness someone else admits that this incident creeps them out too.

Maybe I'm just being oversensitive, but well, he was looking at ME when he said it, so I'm a bit hesitant to talk to him. (partially because of this? I don't know)

I have yet to boot a character from my game, but this one is sort of pushing it.

Granted this is the MOST egregious of the events, but it really sticks in my mind.

I guess I was just sort of rationalizing it that maybe he doesn't see it the same way I do, maybe I did something wrong? I don't know...

 

-SC

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Ah. Then he's just a combat monster. Nothing you do is going to work on one of those guys because he's only interested in combat and he's come up with a character who has a justification for omitting any social interaction for that reason. His dissatisfaction is just with the lack of combat.

 

In my experience a Combat Monster is just someone who hasn't been challenged enough by the RP. It takes time and patience to draw this kind of person out.

 

I am speaking from the viewpoint of a recovering Combat Monster who's SO is also a Combat Monster (we have just gotten her to start to RP more than just combats). It takes time, patience and some work. Most Combat Monsters are uncomfortable with RP because it is kind of scary opening up one's imagination to other folk for the first time.

 

I recommend helping create the character beyond the combat powers. Find out what the player is interested in and tailor the skills around that. My SO is really interested in fighter aircraft, so her first characters were pilots. The trick is to have some fun skills that noone else has so you can draw the CM into the RP by asking for skill based on that (or those) skills. Successfully making skill rolls (and making the character relay the info to the party), can get the player into the habit of RP. It's just a bunch of baby steps. Also keep them interested by running the combats they crave. That way the players has something to look forward to after the investigation.

 

With the mysterious past (and character being lower points than the rest) you have both the resources (bring him up to the other PC's level) and the excuse to have a "breakthrough" where the character remembers bits of their past (and the skills needed to function in that past persona).

 

Again, I would recommend throwing some ideas at the player and see what sticks in the way of background. Heck, since he sees himself as having a Rambo background. Use bits of that. Perhaps there's an Officer that likes the character who has been looking for their long lost friend. Gives the character to have soldier skills and perhaps stuff like Interrogation and Bureaucracy. Also knowledge of Military Hardware and Military Culture. Perhaps also knowledge of a secret military project where he got those powers or was trained in the use of powers he already had.

 

Tasha

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Tasha:

Thanks for the ideas.

I do worry that he is heavy handed. Sort of creeps me out personally sometimes. (though this might be carry-over after mentally reliving the "hog-tie" incident above...)

 

-SC

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Not worth the effort.

 

 

I don't see that Sim has much of a choice. The player comes as part of a package with a player that fits into the game.

 

The Choices are

1) Ignore the issue: Probably ends up with 'claw quittting and taking friend with him. Or worse case, claw stays and ends up being a disruption to the other players

 

2) Write the player off as not worth the effort. I only reserve this for players who are disruptive to the other players. Not ones who aren't engaged with the game. The latter can be rehabilitated with effort (mostly yours).

 

3) Work with the player(Claw) and his friend. If you have to, talk to the friend first. Explain to him that you would like to integrate Claw into the game better as you can tell he isn't having fun. See if the friend will work with you to come up with a background. Better yet talk to them both about it. Express your concerns in as non-confrontational a manner as you can manage. This is the kind of thing that will be resolved with a ton of communication.

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Tasha:

Thanks for the ideas.

I do worry that he is heavy handed. Sort of creeps me out personally sometimes. (though this might be carry-over after mentally reliving the "hog-tie" incident above...)

 

-SC

 

What do you mean "Heavy Handed"?

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Tasha:

Actually, I should talk with Harry (uh, the player who plays Harry anyway). He's a really, really level headed guy (and totally taken dammit!), who might be able to talk sense into him.

The problem is that I don't want to come off all "crazy/weepy" (I have overreacted before, and it's not too pretty :shame: )

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Tasha:

He really likes being well... I guess the term is "extreme" or "overzealous."

It's not enough to take out a bad guy, he likes to pick them up and throw them into a parked car from a roof.

He'll drive a car through a building as a distraction.

And he's casually "rough" with the NPCs.

I know people shouldn't have guilt issues about beating up minions, but he likes to go into detail about how he throws them around like rag dolls, breaking bones and such.

I'm not a real action movie buff, but I assume that's what Rambo is like?

 

-SC

[Cygnia]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Tasha:

 

I'm not a real action movie buff, but I assume that's what Rambo is like?

 

-SC

 

Not really. "First Blood" is Rambo suffering from SEVERE PTSD just wanting to be left alone. He's a shell-shocked vet who isn't taking any pleasure in what he does.

 

Definitely talk to Harry's player about his friend. Talk to your other players too about this guy. They may all enjoy what's going on. However, as a GM, you're entitled to have fun too. And if Mr. Slashy is making you uncomfortable, that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. He may be intentionally describing things in sociopathic details BECAUSE of how you react.

 

If the group disbands, well, that's a risk. But me personally, I'd rather have no gaming than creepy gaming.

[Vondy]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Vondy:

It's kind of strange, as he doesn't really do ANYTHING if I give him slack. He prefers to follow the group around, but won't do much besides fight.

In a combat though, he's really different, as he very uh... vibrantly describes what he's doing and how he's hurting people. I'm not that much of a detail freak with combats, so I just nod and say "uh... sounds painful."

 

So, basically, he's more disturbing than disruptive. That can be just as bad. And, from what I'm hearing: you have a player problem. He doesn't seem to participate except to act out sadistic and misogynistic fantasties when the opportunities present themselves. He also clearly has a maturity problem and some social boundary issues in terms of what is and isn't acceptable. This is a real problem. And its not as simple as saying "this isn't a good fit so lets shake hands and part ways" because you run the risk of losing a player who is a good fit in the process. I would say you need delicate but deliberate communication. If you can enlist the friend's aid you might be able to avoid a more direct confrontation, though ultimately you'll end up having to talk to both of them. I would be low-key but express that you would like to draw the character into the story more, and that some things have made you uncomfortable. Try not to be acrimonious or use judgemental-charged language, but stick to your guns. That last part really does need to be addressed. There is no way around it. Even if you draw the character more into the story and tweak it to be a better fit you're likely to have a repeat. Another option is to tag-team him: you address the issue about the character and how it fits while someone else (are other players bothered by it?) addresses the squick factor. That way it doesn't come from "THE GM."

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Tasha:

Actually, I should talk with Harry (uh, the player who plays Harry anyway). He's a really, really level headed guy (and totally taken dammit!), who might be able to talk sense into him.

The problem is that I don't want to come off all "crazy/weepy" (I have overreacted before, and it's not too pretty :shame: )

 

-SC

 

NP, been there! It usually takes my SO to talk me down before I embarrass myself.

 

Tasha

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Not really. "First Blood" is Rambo suffering from SEVERE PTSD just wanting to be left alone. He's a shell-shocked vet who isn't taking any pleasure in what he does.

 

Definitely talk to Harry's player about his friend. Talk to your other players too about this guy. They may all enjoy what's going on. However, as a GM, you're entitled to have fun too. And if Mr. Slashy is making you uncomfortable, that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. He may be intentionally describing things in sociopathic details BECAUSE of how you react.

 

If the group disbands, well, that's a risk. But me personally, I'd rather have no gaming than creepy gaming.

 

He's doing what he's doing because of how I... wow, that's more Nightmare Fuel for me...

I've talked with the other ladies, and they don't seem to be as worked up about it (at least not that they'll admit).

I don't think they're thrilled, but I don't think it really bothers them.

Red's player said something along the lines of "I've seen worse. At least I can snark at him and he doesn't care."

Though they do have a LOT more experience about gaming than I do.

I have no idea as to how Harry's (gads, why do I keep calling him that? Oh that's right, I shouldn't give out his NAME on the internet. Gah!) player is taking it. He sometimes seems to enjoy the antics, but I don't really get it...

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Vondy:

Oh gads, I do have to talk to him directly don't I?

I wasn't worked up before I started this thread, but now I'm pretty worked up.

Sadistic and misogynistic? Wow, I never thought about it that way, and that's really, really... creepy.

I hope he's not acting this way because I'm y'know not the "normal GM-type..."

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

NP, been there! It usually takes my SO to talk me down before I embarrass myself.

 

Tasha

 

Oh that's good to know that I'm not alone

 

-SC

[Yansuf]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Maybe you can "talk" to him via e-mail. You may find that easier.

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Rambo is a vet who has seen too much in war and is wondering around to probably work out his issues.

 

He passes through a town and is hassled by cops for his looks (Long hair and well worn military attire ie Hippie/non conformist/scary other). Things spiral out of control with the Sheriff deciding to hunt down Rambo to kill him. Rambo goes on the defensive using the skills he learned in the jungles of Vietnam.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Blood

 

It's the best of the series. The later movies turn Rambo into a superhero with his exploits. It is worth watching. I don't remember how bloody it is, though it shouldn't be too bad being an early Action movie

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Yansuf:

Thanks for the idea, but I've had a lot of e-mail conversations back-fire on me (sadly enough, or otherwise the distance would be great!).

 

Tasha:

Well, that sounds actually sort of... tragic in a way. Totally different from what I expected. Silly question, but do players ever act in a way just to watch a GM squirm? (I'm probably being oversensitive, but my concern is piped up pretty high; In any case, I'm not talking to him tonight, absolutely. Not until the sun comes up, definitely.)

 

-SC