How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

[SimComm]

Hi All,

 

Sorry to post ANOTHER one (I can already feel the "Stop posting N00Bz" replies...), but I wanted to ask some advice on something that I sort of gave up on a while back, and now that I think about it, maybe I shouldn't have. (Plus, all of the great responses I've been getting have lead me to beleive that hopefully someone has had something similar?)

 

We have a player (a Wolverine ersatz named BloodClaw) who is a Loner.

A very die-hard loner that well...

Ok, he lives under a bridge, doesn't wash, eats whatever comes along and hates talking.

I've tried bringing him into the fold using NPCs, but all he does is stare at them with uncomfortable intensity until they go away.

I've asked him why he does that, and he says that his character has a "Rambo-like troubled past" and that's just how he acts.

He's also the lurker when the PCs make their plans, and although he doesn't mind once it gets to the fighting parts of the adventure, the time in-between is a bit... well... lacking.

All of the other characters are a lot more social, and I've even tried asking them to bring him in, but with little sucess (I don't know how much they tried but...).

 

I've yet to deal with a real loner character, and the player I can tell would like to do more, but he's not really bending on the character concept. Is there someway I can give him a more comfortable platform to start interacting with the world?

 

Thanks,

-SC

[lemming]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Problem is, unless it's a one player game, loners don't really work in a team.

 

Ask the player what it would take to get the PC to start forming bonds with his teammates, otherwise this is going to be a problem for some time.

 

It's why you often see in Con games, "No loner types".

[aylwin13]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

This is a pet peeve of mine. If you're playing a game as a group, with characters who are a group (or who will at least be interacting, or working together) why the heck are you creating a loner character anyway? I just don't understand that type of thinking.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

To some extent, this is playstyle preference. He may be a Combat Monster in a group of role players. This also comes across from your thread on the characters themselves.

 

The first question I'd ask is "Are the players happy?" Is Bloodclaw OK with the fact that he's pretty much a spectator during investigation and role play scenes? Are the others OK with him being much more effective in combat? If they are, you don't have a problem. In fact, I think you may have a better game than many where the characters are virtual mechanical equivalents of one another so they're all about equally effective in every situation.

 

If they are not happy, then there may be a need to balance catering to each player's preferred playstyles. If they are far enough apart, that may be a problem. But I don't get the sense, from any of your posts, that any of the players have a real issue with the results.

 

One approach, if the Loner is unhappy, is to get more details of his background and bring it into play. Focus an arc on his mysterious background. Link it into ongoing backstory and plotlines - a link with one or more of the other characters would be ideal.

 

Maybe the investigative characters can help him resolve some old issues. Many Super comics start off with a group of unrelated loners but, as they help each other along the way, they become much closer. Then again, some players have a rock solid character image and, no matter what happens in game, their character never changes.

 

But Step 1, at least to me, is "don't fix it if it ain't broke". If no one is unhappy, you don't have a problem. There's nothing wrong with broaching the subject (ie "I get the sense you're not enjoying the RP scenes because your character isn't really involved"). I've had situations where I've felt players were feeling left out when they were actually quite happy. I've been the player of an anti-social character and been asked if there is a problem when I was having a great time playing that character (but I was not vocalizing his inner feelings, so there was a concern I was bored). Talk to your players first.

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Lemming:

Thanks, I will talk with him (though I have done it before as well...)

 

Hugh Neilson:

You mean... you can be happy... being anti-social??? (:mind breaks: )

Sorry, it's just a... REALLY?

I must say that it may be that, I mean, I know he listens, as he actually fills in things out of character that the others miss. And he seems to LIKE the game, but when I ask what should be improved, he always says he'd like more combat, but that's about it.

Sorry for seeming so naive, but I didn't think that was an option...

 

-SC

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

There are two reasons you end up with loner characters. Scenario A is that the player just likes the concept. Fair enough. Scenario B is that the player himself is a bit of a loner and so doesn't interact well. Sad perhaps, but it happens. The big problem is that loner characters tend to be boring for everybody.

 

So my suggestion is this. First of all, point out to the player that in the comics, even though Wolverine is a loner, that he has thought bubbles explaining what is going on inside his head all the time, even if he only actually speaks occasionally. That is what really gives him character and makes him interesting.

 

Now have the player do the same thing. Write down the exact thoughts going through his head. Not "I am a loner so go away" but more like

 

"Why are these people annoying me with their prattle about going to a ball game when there are people dying in the streets? Where are their priorities? Of course I am living hand to mouth under a bridge, where are my priorities? Do I have to take care of myself before I can help other people?"

 

or perhaps "Damn, I have been so absorbed in hiding from the Brotherhood of the Scarlet Hand that I haven't bathed in a month, these superheroes must think I'm some sort of schizo. Maybe I am..."

 

The GM should read what the loner writes about, because someone needs to know obviously. The GM should share with the other players as is deemed fit; even if the character doesn't understand why loner hero acts this way, at least the player will and that will help out a lot. Writing this way emulates the thought bubbles in the comics, and so takes care of scenario A from a gaming standpoint. Writing is also easier than explaining yourself outloud, which will hopefully address scenario B. As a bonus, writing stuff down is also a good way for players to utilize time during long combats when things get bogged down or when the focus of the games is on another player at the time.

 

Hope that helps. Good luck.

[KA.]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

You may want to read the following post, and the rest of the thread it is part of.

There is some very wise advice there, and the poster makes some excellent points.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562514&postcount=10

 

KA.

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Ockham's Spoon:

Thanks for your comment!

First of all, great name!

 

The thought baloon idea is actually a great idea!, maybe it'll at least get him to start talking.

I know he hasn't really fleshed the character's background out, maybe if he gets to talking then it'll give him some incentive...

 

It does also remind of the great session when he was first introduced, and Dream Girl (the PC psychic) decided (just to be on the safe side) to read his mind.

In game, I just asked the player to say out loud what the character was thinking.

He raised an eyebrow and asked if I was sure...

Then went on to a full X-rated description of what he thought of Dreamy and our lady Mage. I think he went on for a full couple of minutes before the Psi PC couldn't take it anymore. We were all in hysterics for a while, as nobody had been so blatant about it before...

 

KA:

Thanks! I'll take a look!

 

-SC

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Hi All,

 

Sorry to post ANOTHER one (I can already feel the "Stop posting N00Bz" replies...), but I wanted to ask some advice on something that I sort of gave up on a while back, and now that I think about it, maybe I shouldn't have. (Plus, all of the great responses I've been getting have lead me to beleive that hopefully someone has had something similar?)

 

We have a player (a Wolverine ersatz named BloodClaw) who is a Loner.

A very die-hard loner that well...

Ok, he lives under a bridge, doesn't wash, eats whatever comes along and hates talking.

I've tried bringing him into the fold using NPCs, but all he does is stare at them with uncomfortable intensity until they go away.

I've asked him why he does that, and he says that his character has a "Rambo-like troubled past" and that's just how he acts.

He's also the lurker when the PCs make their plans, and although he doesn't mind once it gets to the fighting parts of the adventure, the time in-between is a bit... well... lacking.

All of the other characters are a lot more social, and I've even tried asking them to bring him in, but with little sucess (I don't know how much they tried but...).

 

I've yet to deal with a real loner character, and the player I can tell would like to do more, but he's not really bending on the character concept. Is there someway I can give him a more comfortable platform to start interacting with the world?

 

Thanks,

-SC

 

Sounds like it's time to deal with that "troubled past". Find out more about it, who was involved, what happened, etc. Have someone from his troubled past show up to beat him up (ie think Sabertooth), show him up, and otherwise shame him into being a bit more civilized. Sometimes the trick is to find the Player's hook(s) and draw them into the campaign.

 

It is sounding to me that perhaps it's time to have some magical catastrophe that only the team of secretive magical beings can deal with. Perhaps tie this (potentially?) catatropic event to BloodClaw's past. AKA the whole pigeons come to roost scenario. Have enough combat to make BloodClaw happy, and more than your players are used to dealing with. Perhaps with some world class threats that will draw your players out of their happy RP box.

 

BTW If Bloodclaw won't give you details of said "troubled past", throw some ideas of your own at him and see if any get a positive reaction. Hell, use his friend as a source of info on the character.

 

Also you can run the BloodClaw plot line along side of your regular plots. Just don't wait too long to blow it up in the player's faces

 

Have fun

Tasha

 

PS As a player I love talking heads RP, but I also enjoy being in a fun challenging combat. The more often you run combats the easier they get.

[Clonus]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

 

I've yet to deal with a real loner character, and the player I can tell would like to do more, but he's not really bending on the character concept. Is there someway I can give him a more comfortable platform to start interacting with the world?

 

Thanks,

-SC

 

Give him a little girl. He really wants to be a drama queen so give him an ex-girlfriend from his "troubled past" with young girl who dies in his arms asking him to protect the child, who is ideally his child if that can fit into his background. She's hunted by bad guys who want to train her up to become an assassin before her powers manifest with puberty. Offer to let him take a DNPC in trade for certain other disads that might become obsolete under the circumstances. Point out to him that there's a _reason_ why Wolverine ended up paired with Kitty Pryde and Jubilation Lee. Even if he doesn't bite at the bait he'll still need to ask for help dealing with a young child and finding a safe hiding place for her which means interaction with the player characters.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

when I ask what should be improved' date=' he always says he'd like more combat, but that's about it.[/quote']This is the key point, it tells you everything you need to know about the player.

 

He wants to be a loner. He doesn't feel lonely. He wants combat. If you want to make him happy, stop trying to bring him into the roleplaying part of the game and start giving him more fights.

 

The problem, of course, is that this will probably make your talky players less happy. No one ever said GMing was going to be a bed of roses.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Then went on to a full X-rated description of what he thought of Dreamy and our lady Mage. I think he went on for a full couple of minutes before the Psi PC couldn't take it anymore. We were all in hysterics for a while' date=' as nobody had been so blatant about it before... [/quote']Could there be romance in store between Dream Girl and Bloodclaw? One of the most unexpected plot developments of all time!

[DJ Blackrock]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

You may want to read the following post, and the rest of the thread it is part of.

There is some very wise advice there, and the poster makes some excellent points.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562514&postcount=10

 

KA.

 

 

Totally not a shameless plug! No way!

 

I've often found that steering a lone wolf towards the (wo)man of mystery angle works. They're similar enough that the lone wolf can still get their jollies, and they're not so heinous on a team.

[CourtFool]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

This is the key point' date=' it tells you everything you need to know about the player.[/quote']

 

I think it is very telling too. Loners with mysterious pasts are often (not always) indicators that you have a hack-n-slasher on your hands.

 

While I would generally agree with the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" philosophy, the fact you are here seeking advice suggests to me that it is a problem. At the very least, for you.

 

I also suggest you talk to your character. If he really just wants more combat, the loner with a mysterious past is counter-productive. DNPCs and Hunteds are a better way to create more action. He may rethink his concept once put in such light.

 

Another thing you need to consider is how do you feel about this. If you are only concerned that player is not having a good time, then no worries. If having to deal with someone you have to drag kicking and screaming into your plot lines is taxing you, you have the right and the responsibility to say so. If GMing is not fun, why do it? Your players should recognize it is partly their responsibility that you are having fun too. Otherwise they will find themselves down one GM.

[Balabanto]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

I don't care about how it works. I have this problem in my game, too, sometimes this is an example of "The character works great in a written comic book, but just shouldn't be played in a game." For the Wolverine types, this is my general assessment. They need a hook like "Loves Another Member of the Team" or "My secret masters won't let me leave the area of these people" But "Character Does Not bathe?"

 

If I were the other PC's, I would be like "You stink! Get out!"

[Vondy]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

The first thing I would do is to determine whether this is a character issue or a player issue.

 

If its a player issue: is it a question of the player not wanting to role play, or their wanting to do their own thing and not be with the group no matter what? If its the former, what do you get out of forcing the issue? If he's happy as a combat monster and shows up for the brawl then, insofar as he gets a fair share of brawls, that's just more roleplay time for everyone else. Let him come for the brawl and mad dog everyone. If he's unhappy with the game, or its problematic, then it may be that he'd be happy with another group. Some style differences are material.

 

If its a question of the player being a stalwart do what I want even if it ruins everyone else's fun or splits the group up so much the game bogs down, then you have a much bigger issue. Short of solo games, roleplaying is a group endeavor and you have, to a certain extent, to play ball with the rest of the group and realize splitting the group up all the time steals time from everyone else. Also, knowing the group has a plan and intentionally sabotaging it when there isn't a solid story reason for it is pretty much ruining everyone else's day. Another point of consideration is the gamemaster.

 

I had one player who did this a lot: it became problematic because, while the players need a healthy latitude in deciding their direction and the GM should have a flexible plot, the players should still have enough sense to go along with the theme/gist of the story, and to avoid actions so outrageous they destroy the plot, terminate the story prematurely, or force a radical paradigm shift that logically leads to all hell raining down on the maverick question. The group comes first. In my group this player created so much ire that the other players hunted down his character and took him down with extreme prejudice to send him a message.

 

If its a character question you have it much easier. It could be the player just made a character they thought was cool, but proved to be a bad fit. Wolverine, for instance, isn't really a loner. Everyone says he's the bad boy loner, but he's always there for his friends, is always on board with their plans (in the end), and gets involved and goes to the wall for the team, or individual members, when they are in trouble or have a problem. All the hairy beer swilling cigar smoking loner who has friction with the goody-two-shoes team leader stuff is window dressing for a loyal team player who always does the right thing in the end. Wolvie is a faux loner. He also has a backstory that has served as adventure seed/character centric source of comics as well. Oh, and he bathes and has a roof over his head, even if its at nightly rates.

 

If its "character" talk to him about how to 1) integrate the character into the team just enough to ensure getting him involved and keeping him with the group isn't like pulling teeth, and 2) how to use the character for potential story hooks. Just tell him all good RPG characters have to hit at least this basic standard for the game to work even if the player doesn't want to role play much, or wants to stick to investigation and combat while avoiding NPC entanglements. Also, I would have that "troubled past" show up. The player gave you the opening. His mistake. Exploit it. The NPCs who show up don't have to be friends, relatives, or allies he'll have to interact with much, or who will be around forever. They could be your next big antagonists. Oh, and have some villain track him down using his oddly strong and malodorous smell. Maybe the character will at least sit out in the rain to wash some of the funk off.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

(I can already feel the "Stop posting N00Bz" replies...)

 

Just as an aside... if anyone does this, a bunch of us old timers will gang up on them and beat them to death with our canes. We pride ourselves on being helpful and friendly to new folks around here. (On the other hand, it has been known to happen that a question from anyone, new or not, has brought about a flareup of a long simmering dispute. Not that I've never done that.)

[Steve]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Just as an aside... if anyone does this' date=' a bunch of us old timers will gang up on them and beat them to death with our canes. We pride ourselves on being helpful and friendly to new folks around here. (On the other hand, it has been known to happen that a question from anyone, new or not, has brought about a flareup of a long simmering dispute. Not that I've never done that.)[/quote']

 

I have to agree with this sentiment. Though it was far back in the past for me (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth), we were all N00Bs to the Hero System at one time. I like seeing new people on the boards, and its great to see fresh opinions.

 

Loners are only problematic if its annoying the players (and the GM is considered a player too).

[Zed-F]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Stop posting N00Bz!

 

They don't exactly fit in your average mailbox or through the mail slot in a door, you know! And what are the people you're sending them to supposed to do with N00Bz anyway? Feed them? Take them to the local shelter? Look for an ID tag and send them back where they came from?

 

Besides, the air freight for all those N0Bz must be pretty atrocious. Don't you have something more productive to spend your money on?

 

I mean really. If you want to get rid of the N00Bz in your area that badly, a gun and a few clips of bullets would probably be a lot cheaper, wouldn't it?

 

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Stop posting N00Bz!

 

They don't exactly fit in your average mailbox or through the mail slot in a door, you know! And what are the people you're sending them to supposed to do with N00Bz anyway? Feed them? Take them to the local shelter? Look for an ID tag and send them back where they came from?

 

Besides, the air freight for all those N0Bz must be pretty atrocious. Don't you have something more productive to spend your money on?

 

I mean really. If you want to get rid of the N00Bz in your area that badly, a gun and a few clips of bullets would probably be a lot cheaper, wouldn't it?

 

 

Looks like Zed-F is off his meds again! Quick, fetch the butterfly nets!

[Tasha]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Just as an aside... if anyone does this' date=' a bunch of us old timers will gang up on them and beat them to death with our canes. We pride ourselves on being helpful and friendly to new folks around here. (On the other hand, it has been known to happen that a question from anyone, new or not, has brought about a flareup of a long simmering dispute. Not that I've never done that.)[/quote']

 

Agreed! It's really fun to help folk who are new to the system. Heck it's just plain fun to help people in general. So keep posting

 

Tasha

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Oh my... goodness! You guys are great!

It's like an idea explosion went off while I was away.

 

I'll try and reply to everyone that I can!

 

Tasha:

I do like the idea of the rival and the backstory, but I don't think he's made it. I ask him once in a while, but I think I'm starting to get too nagging...

I've wanted to make a plot with his background, but I'm just hesitant to take away too much of his creative input...

 

Clonus:

Ok, your response has (un?)fortunately opened up a whole story.

 

It's one of my greatest (failed) attempts to get BloodClaw integrated in as a group.

First, let me say that I love Kitty Pryde (not like that, you sickos), and I was thinking about using a similar device.

So, I had a plot that started with a teenage girl running screaming in the middle of the night towards BloodClaw's bridge pursued by a pair of mysterious bad guys.

Mr. Slashy takes them both out without any trouble, and they turn into mysterious piles of goo. (cue ominous music!)

The girl turns to him, and tries to explain what's going on, but she's really hysterical.

I was HOPING this would open him up, you know, vulnerable young girl, needing reassuring, potential turning point for removing the loner bits... but...

BloodClaw then took out a handkerchief from his pocket, knotted it up (he made sure to tell me what kind of knot, which is just only SORT OF creepy), and gags her. He then proceeds to hog-tie her, throw her into a bag (why he has this, I don't know, but I was too shocked except just to nod that this point), throws her over his shoulder and casually walks to the nearest pay phone some distance away.

He calls Harry (the party leader), and tells him rather deadpanly:

"Got a girl. Chased by weirdos. Might need help."

Harry tells him to stay there, and everyone piles into his car to head over there.

When they find out what they've done, the two ladies are really upset with him, and Harry has a talk that pretty much boils down to, "Don't hogtie teenage girls. Thanks."

They save the day and the girl, who turns out to be a dignitary's daughter.

To this day, whenever they stop by their house, the girl runs screaming away from them.

 

Just had to share that.

 

More replies coming!

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Replies group #2 (this is great that I can write that )

DJ Blackrock:

Hmm... Man of Mystery, sounds interesting... what's that?

 

CourtFool:

Well, he does like to make me work on it, I think, certainly he doesn't make it easy for me to bring him into the adventures, but I'm not getting frustrated (yet, at least, not conciously...)

 

Balabanto:

Haha, oh yes, his smell. Red Witch, one of the ladies, is a very snarky character, and loves to tease him about it.

I think her best description was:

"What do you use for cologne, festering Baboon a$$-wipes?"

[Cygnia]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Sounds like he's the sort of player who really doesn't want to play well with other NPCs and actively avoids background hooks that would have him deal with people in a social manner.

 

How is he outside of the game?

[SimComm]

Re: How to make the Loner feel not so Lonely?

 

Could there be romance in store between Dream Girl and Bloodclaw? One of the most unexpected plot developments of all time!

 

This comment made squick so badly, you have no idea

 

Vondy:

It's kind of strange, as he doesn't really do ANYTHING if I give him slack. He prefers to follow the group around, but won't do much besides fight.

In a combat though, he's really different, as he very uh... vibrantly describes what he's doing and how he's hurting people. I'm not that much of a detail freak with combats, so I just nod and say "uh... sounds painful."

 

Chris Goodwin, Steve:

Thanks! I really like the open atmosphere here!

 

Tasha:

Thanks for the kind words too!

 

Best,

-SC