Vondy Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Man, those are some HUGE books. I don't know if it's physically possible to print a 788-page hardcover that can hold together for a cover price under $100. And Lemming -- does your knowledge of the page count mean you actually have PDF copies now? With or without art? On what paper? I have a very good critical edition of Shakespeare's works en toto in hardcover that I got for 89$. Its sturdy and has excellent binding. It uses paper somewhat thicker than you'd find in a dictionary but not regular gaming-book stock. Its pushing 1,000 pages*. It doesn't, however, have glossy paper, color, or printed artwork. Its just good old fashioned black and white text. I'd take that over conventional RPG printing any day. But I understand the market forces that drove the current formatting decisions. Alas, gamers don't look at their RPG manuals as reference works. Different market. *My current edition of the Rambam's Mishneh Torah runs over 900 pages. It has a good binding, the nice "yellow" paper of good thickness, and clear printing. I got it for 200 NIS (approx. 52 USD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! The good thing about being a veteran player is that you don't really have to read all 788 pages cover to cover, word for word. You can skim it at first, to get the gist of the major changes, then peruse sections in more detail to nail down the specifics, and just consult it when necessary after that. But for a neophyte gamer, or someone considering switching over from another system? Let's just say the "Basic rules" being released shortly thereafter was a really prudent move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! The answer, my friends, is slip covers: cheap to make glossy, and available in a variety of designs. You could even buy the whole pack so you can alternate covers, or go for 'neo classic'. Sean 'everyone, all the time' Waters Just for clarification, are you saying that Hero Games should make such things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Just for clarification' date=' are you saying that Hero Games should make such things?[/quote'] Yes, I think so: it will look better than my crayons and finger-painting I can not imagine they would be that expensive to knock up or print, and there might be a market for them: say 2 or 3 seperate packs of 4 covers (a bit like special edition comics) featuring artwork reminiscent of various genres so that, if you play Pulp Hero more than other genres, you could put a Pulp themed slipcover on. Pimp your 6th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane_Marlowe Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Gah, I cannot rep Sean Waters again! Someone take care of this for me? Slipcovers is a great idea, and I too thought the electric blue cover would jump out at, but not necessarily draw in new readers. I'd pay for an official slipcover if it came in at the $5-10 range and had great art on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Gah, I cannot rep Sean Waters again! Someone take care of this for me? Slipcovers is a great idea, and I too thought the electric blue cover would jump out at, but not necessarily draw in new readers. I'd pay for an official slipcover if it came in at the $5-10 range and had great art on it. I got him for you. I'm not really fussy about the artwork--I'm sure I'd be happy with a original Frazetta cover for FH and one by Alex Ross for Champs;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Yes' date=' I think so: it will look better than my crayons and finger-painting [/quote'] Well, I was asking to see if you meant it as advice to the buyer that doesn't like the cover or a suggestion to the company It sounds like a good idea if workable: it's universal so you disguise it as whatever game you are running at the time. I like it. I still need my new dice, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! I got him for you. I'm not really fussy about the artwork--I'm sure I'd be happy with a original Frazetta cover for FH and one by Alex Ross for Champs;) No, not fussy at all. Who else would you ask? Well, really, quite a few people, but those are in the top area of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! The answer' date=' my friends, is slip covers: cheap to make glossy, and available in a variety of designs. You could even buy the whole pack so you can alternate covers, or go for 'neo classic'.[/quote'] Café Press doesn't seem to do book covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Slip covers don't need to be made by HERO. Any third-party could do it. I don't know how much of a market there is for them (I probably wouldn't buy one). But a FLGS, if it thinks it would boost sales, can buy some and put them on the books as a free bonus with purchase of the book. Notice that most of the time when you buy a new hardback book in a bookstore, there's a jacket on it. RPG books have never done this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StGrimblefig Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Runequest, once upon a time (before Avalon Hill), had a hardcover main rulebook with a jacket. I still have that red hardback book, but I lost the jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! I don't know about the rest of you but slipcovers are ablative armor for books that I've gotten with them, quickly battered and discarded. They would be a nightmare to ship and arrive undamaged to a store. I admit that I was thinking something like the vinyl Dragonskins might make a nice option. Or you could wait for the bindings to go kaput!, three-hole punch the pages and then put them in a Marvel or DC Comics-themed binder, not that anything like that could ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! I don't know about the rest of you but slipcovers are ablative armor for books that I've gotten with them' date=' quickly battered and discarded. They would be a nightmare to ship and arrive undamaged to a store. I admit that I was thinking something like the vinyl Dragonskins might make a nice option. Or you could wait for the bindings to go kaput!, three-hole punch the pages and then put them in a Marvel or DC Comics-themed binder, not that anything like that could ever happen.[/quote'] By ablative, do you mean 'a continuing source of income for whoever prints and sells them'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajackson Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Notice that most of the time when you buy a new hardback book in a bookstore' date=' there's a jacket on it. RPG books have never done this.[/quote'] Jackets are a lot less durable than the hardback cover. This doesn't matter for a novel that you read once, but a reference book that you page through hundreds of times is different. Used books often lack dust jackets, particularly used reference books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Or you could wait for the bindings to go kaput!' date=' three-hole punch the pages and then put them in a Marvel or DC Comics-themed binder, not that anything like that could ever happen.[/quote'] Have you ever actually tried that? I did with a 3rd (or 4th, or something) edition of Champions. The pages will either tear like tissue paper if you don't cover them, or it costs more than a new book to buy enough plastic sleeves for all the pages, even if you find them at a ridiculously low bulk rate. I gave up on it until I finally found a place to buy another copy. Man, did that take a while. Hence my question about the quality of the 6E bindings above. I'm very happy with 5E's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grond Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Personally I don't like it. Not for the color scheme but for the use of shading which is useless in such a design. But other than that, I think the problem is that this bright scheme calls for "superhero game" which hero system is not. The black/green gave more the idea of "universal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Have you ever actually tried that? I did with a 3rd (or 4th, or something) edition of Champions. The pages will either tear like tissue paper if you don't cover them, or it costs more than a new book to buy enough plastic sleeves for all the pages, even if you find them at a ridiculously low bulk rate. I gave up on it until I finally found a place to buy another copy. Man, did that take a while. Hence my question about the quality of the 6E bindings above. I'm very happy with 5E's. Sure! My first BBB's innards are in an oversized DC themed binder that came with the Who's Who in the DCU sheets. I keep all my 4th ed notes and forms in a 70's era Marvel tri-fold binder. I also still have an intact copy of the BBB. I've purchased 3 copies of Fred and all are still soldiering along, cover intact. The other copies were gifts and one for me. If the cover is a decision made knowing what the reaction will be, I whole-heartedly approve. An elegant, adult cover for an elegant, adult system. It just suggests a different marketing approach than selling through FLGSs, which I'm sad to sad are woefully inequipped to sell the subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! I've had to duct tape my 5er cover, so now it is black, green and silver, but it is holding together very well given the almost daily useage for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Personally I don't like it. Not for the color scheme but for the use of shading which is useless in such a design. But other than that' date=' I think the problem is that this bright scheme calls for "superhero game" which hero system is not. The black/green gave more the idea of "universal".[/quote']Funny; if I were to assign a genre to the color scheme presented, I'd go with either sci-fi or sports. So, TEHO and YMMV.* On another subtopic, the binding did come completely off my first copy of 5ER, but that was only because I accidentally jammed my umbrella down the spine as it stood in my backpack. *To Each His Own, and Your Mileage May Vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Have you ever actually tried that? I did with a 3rd (or 4th, or something) edition of Champions. The pages will either tear like tissue paper if you don't cover them, or it costs more than a new book to buy enough plastic sleeves for all the pages, even if you find them at a ridiculously low bulk rate. I gave up on it until I finally found a place to buy another copy. Man, did that take a while. Hence my question about the quality of the 6E bindings above. I'm very happy with 5E's. I've noted that if you carefully remove the pages from the spine with a sharp craft knife, hole punch them then carefully paint a layer of yacht varnish (which is tough, glossy and sets really hard) on to each page, you get a sticky, unreadable mess that sets into an interesting modern art sculpture. Good job I tried it out on someone else's copy first, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Have you ever actually tried that? I did with a 3rd (or 4th, or something) edition of Champions. The pages will either tear like tissue paper if you don't cover them, or it costs more than a new book to buy enough plastic sleeves for all the pages, even if you find them at a ridiculously low bulk rate. I gave up on it until I finally found a place to buy another copy. Man, did that take a while. Hence my question about the quality of the 6E bindings above. I'm very happy with 5E's. I comb-bound my 4th ed BBB. It worked great. Sure, it's a little ragged by now, but it worked just fine for as long as I was playing 4th. And I didn't do anything special to make the pages stronger. Comb binding makes it a little less likely for the pages to rip out than 3-ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Sorry, I guess I've missed most of this discussion about 6E, but what I've seen is very nice. I do have a quick question. When are these projected to be available and will the player's and gm's books be available at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Sorry, I guess I've missed most of this discussion about 6E, but what I've seen is very nice. I do have a quick question. When are these projected to be available and will the player's and gm's books be available at the same time? 6e1 and 6e2 are being printed together. No firm date yet for distribution (as far as I am aware) but certainly expected within weeks. PDF available tomorrow. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Note that they are not a Player and a GM book. They are divided between Character Creation and Combat & Adventuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Re: One Last 6E Preview: The Covers! Call them one book, but built using two separate covers. Heh heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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