Grymour Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Greetings fellow HEROphiles, I am converting an old character of mine from AD&D 1e to HERO and have hit a slight snag. He has a Bag of Holding (as well as a Portable Hole). SO here is my question. How would you all model that in HERO terms? Thank you in advance, Grym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Normally I would provide a link to an earlier thread with a relevant build but the search function is still suffering the effects of the recent board changes. Regardless, both portable holes & bags of holding can be modeled many different ways but one of my favorite methods is to use the vehicle building rules. Design the size of the 'vehicle' with whatever 'internal carrying capacity you want and then instead of buying any movement ability for the 'vehicle' just purchase shrinking to whatever size desirable. This also has the benefit of giving a clear method for defining the defenses of the bag or hole in question. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Bag of Holding. Holds 16 non-living objects of any size that will fit through the bag's opening. No appreciable weight. Extra-dimensional movement 20AP +½ 0 Endurance Cost +¼ Grantor can give power to one Recipient +1 16 X Recipients +½ more Advantage Grantor controls the power totally 70 Active Points -½ less Advantage Grantor can only grant the power to others -¼ less Advantage Grantor must grant power to multiple Recipients one Recipient at a time Gestures -1/4 OAF -1 Limited (only for non-living objects that fit through the bag's opening, placed in OAF -2) 13 Real Points 6th Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Hyperman: As soon as I figure out how, I am _so_ repping you for that! :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymour Posted November 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Thanks guys, I will use both methods and see which fits best for my needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding One of my favorite was one I saw that was Transform Objects into Coins. It was a rather unique interpretation of Bag of Holding. The coins transformed back by being pulled out of the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKJAM! Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Hyperman: As soon as I figure out how, I am _so_ repping you for that! :D :D It's the six-pointed star to the right of "Blog this Post." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Bags of Holding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding My method is somewhat simpler. I build it as +STR, 0 end, Invisible, only to hold what is in bag (-1), OIF (-1/2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding My method is somewhat simpler. I build it as +STR' date=' 0 end, Invisible, only to hold what is in bag (-1), OIF (-1/2)[/quote'] Yes, that is the way Killer Shrike did it in the post above yours. I agree it is a simple way of doing it. It is however less than completely satisfying to me as while it explains away the weight, it doesn't explain away the bulk. The game mechanics take weight into account, not bulk, and so I suppose the mechanics only therefor need to account for weight, and bulk can simply be a special effect. That's why I take the Extra-dimensional approach, because that is what a bag of holding actually 'is', and it nicely deals with the bulk at the same time, even though bulk is technically, mechanically, just a special effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Yes, that is the way Killer Shrike did it in the post above yours. I agree it is a simple way of doing it. It is however less than completely satisfying to me as while it explains away the weight, it doesn't explain away the bulk. The game mechanics take weight into account, not bulk, and so I suppose the mechanics only therefor need to account for weight, and bulk can simply be a special effect. That's why I take the Extra-dimensional approach, because that is what a bag of holding actually 'is', and it nicely deals with the bulk at the same time, even though bulk is technically, mechanically, just a special effect. I do something similar with Leomund's Secret Chest However, generally speaking, I try to avoid using EDM as much as possible. It creates as many (and oft times more) problems than it solves more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Thanks to Skjam, MorpheousXO, and all the other Rep Fairies who came to my aid. Hyperman has now received his just reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Bag of Hefty Capacity FYI, the Knights of the Dinner Table Comic does some fun stuff with Extra Dimensional Movement in the "Bag Wars" arc with the Bag Worlds, Bag Zones, Bag Raiders, etc... Hilarious strips plus some useful/interesting stuff even if you have a more serious campaign. Specifically for how the Magic Items work in Hackmaster (the non-D&D D&D) see Gary Jackson's article on Mega-Capacity Magic Items (KODT #143 p.26-29), such as a Bag of Hefty Capacity, which covers both non-Dimensional Space Items (Type I) and Trans-Dimensional Space Items (Type 2). The first type are the STR style write-ups while the 2nd delves into the EDM versions. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Bag of Hefty Capacity *throws the bag of holding into the portable hole* Tunneling 1" 30 defense AofE Extended + surpress all livings objects immunity to tunneling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Bag of Hefty Capacity FYI' date=' the [i']Knights of the Dinner Table[/i] Comic does some fun stuff with Extra Dimensional Movement in the "Bag Wars" arc with the Bag Worlds, Bag Zones, Bag Raiders, etc... Hilarious strips plus some useful/interesting stuff even if you have a more serious campaign. Specifically for how the Magic Items work in Hackmaster (the non-D&D D&D) see Gary Jackson's article on Mega-Capacity Magic Items (KODT #143 p.26-29), such as a Bag of Hefty Capacity, which covers both non-Dimensional Space Items (Type I) and Trans-Dimensional Space Items (Type 2). The first type are the STR style write-ups while the 2nd delves into the EDM versions. . http://www.kenzerco.com/Operiodicals/kodt/jackson_document.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Yes, that is the way Killer Shrike did it in the post above yours. I agree it is a simple way of doing it. It is however less than completely satisfying to me as while it explains away the weight, it doesn't explain away the bulk. The game mechanics take weight into account, not bulk, and so I suppose the mechanics only therefor need to account for weight, and bulk can simply be a special effect. That's why I take the Extra-dimensional approach, because that is what a bag of holding actually 'is', and it nicely deals with the bulk at the same time, even though bulk is technically, mechanically, just a special effect. Sorry, I somehow did not notice Killer Shrike's post...which is a shame because normaly all I need to do to answer fantacy hero questions is say ask KS. Anyways, I do feel, and this is coming from a strong Champions background (opposed to more heroic level games like Fantacy) that you need to make sure you get what you are paying for, which with a complex EDM build you might not be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding send them away with a limited EDM, bring them back with a Summon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding It also depends what effects being in the BoH has. If just makes them lighter, then +STR or Transform (into coins) works fine. If they're also protected from external conditions, then EDM fits better. The EDM build above works for limited-capacity Bags of Holding. If you want to store an entire arsenal in there, there's the heavy-duty version I used for a C3L-tech coat: * EDM, to store objects. * Base, Extradimensional, to hold them. * AI to run the base, with Mind Link to the character. * On Base: Transform, objects into tiny cubes (heals by leaving holding space). EDM to send them back. Not as expensive as you'd think (due to 1/5 cost for Base), and it allows you to store a massive number of objects which will remain in stasis, and have them sent to you instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding The Wizard's Sack (Fantasy Hero, p. 288; Enchanted Items, p. 240) used the following: EDM (Single Pocket Dimension), Usable As Attack, 0 END, OAF, Only On Nonresisting Objects (-1/4), Only Works On Items Small Enough To Fit Through Sack's Mouth (-1). Stretching 5", Transdimensional (sack's pocket dimension), OAF. The 5e version also had Independent on both Powers, but that's gone now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcamtar Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Extradimensional movement is trying to model it as a sort of metaphysical simulation. I think maybe a better way is to model it as an effect. In Hero, you use STR to carry stuff, so: +20 STR, Zero END (+1/2), only for increasing carrying capacity (-1/2), OAF bag (-1), only counts as 25 kg encumbrance (-1/4), only stuff that fits in the bag (-1/4), real cost 10 pts Description: This magical bag allows you to carry up to 400kg (~10,000 coins) but only weighs 25 kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding that works well but what about the 10' pole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding So what's the DEF and BODY of a 'Bag of Holding' built with EDM or Limited STR? (Say the character is caught in an AOE attack that doesn't necessarily damage them, it still might damage the 'bag'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcamtar Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding I don't know. How about PD 1, ED 15, BODY 5 since it's only cloth or maybe thin leather. It's only cloth or maybe thin leather, so it should be pretty vulnerable to damage from sharp objects; but I don't really see it being very vulnerable to fireballs and lightning bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding Extradimensional movement is trying to model it as a sort of metaphysical simulation. I think maybe a better way is to model it as an effect. In Hero, you use STR to carry stuff, so: +20 STR, Zero END (+1/2), only for increasing carrying capacity (-1/2), OAF bag (-1), only counts as 25 kg encumbrance (-1/4), only stuff that fits in the bag (-1/4), real cost 10 pts Description: This magical bag allows you to carry up to 400kg (~10,000 coins) but only weighs 25 kg. As written, it would let someone with 10 STR carry an extra 1500 kg, someone with 15 STR carry an extra 3000 kg, and someone with 20 STR carry an extra 6000 kg. You would probably also need to add Character Cannot Use Own STR (-1/4), like the Powered Exoskeleton in Star Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Re: Bag of Holding the main advantage to an EDM version is that it has no maximum limit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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