How to Build? : Ignore Pain

[paxsupremus]

Greetings all,

 

Kind of stumped and wondering if someone could enlighten or guide me:

 

I need to build a power that simulates an 'Ignore Pain'.

The person would still take damage, but would not be affected by the effects of Pain.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

[Steve Long]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I've moved this to the "Discussion" board since a request for discussion and input.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Tough It Out +10 CON (10 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Characteristic roll (CON); -1/2), Only to resist pain (-1/4) 10 active, 6 real

 

Basically when you take damage that might stun you, or are using CON to resist pain in any other context, you can make a CON roll and, if you succeed, your CON is increased by 10 for that purpose.

 

There's plenty of other ways to do it, or modify it (you could make it an EGO roll rather than a CON roll, for example), but that works pretty well.

 

You could even build something like 50% Damage Reduction (resistant) - only against 'pain' sfx: 30 points

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I think that the big problem is that HERO does not have a generic pain build. The answer is, how do you model pain in your game. Once you know that you can know how to build an ignore pain ability...

 

Doc

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Two thoughts.

 

1) What Sean said.

 

2) Does Not Take Stun.

 

Stun is as close as Hero really gets to simulating "pain" with the mechanics of Knocked Out and Stunned being modeled from it. Without taking Stun the character just keeps going until their Body reaches 0.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I figure some amount of stun damage jars and fatigues the body whether felt or not

for the Orcs in my universe I give them 3/4 resistant damage reduct only versus stun

[Doc Samson]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

The books recommend using the Resistance talent (6e1, 114) and Damage Reduction (6e1, 184) to model resistance to pain but as others have stated they are not the only ways.

[Susano]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

In Kazei 5, there's a piece of bioware called a "Trauma Editor" that's defined as a sensory regulator implanted in your brain. When active it allows you to ignore most pain. I built it as Physical and Energy DR, STUN Only. There are also Impact Compensators that are built as Aid to STUN.

[Panpiper]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Just buy extra non-resistant PD and ED. In my mind, taking 'stun' damage is the same thing as feeling pain.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Just buy extra non-resistant PD and ED. In my mind' date=' taking 'stun' damage is the same thing as feeling pain.[/quote']

 

So what about attacks built as NND (pain touch), entangle (frozen with pain) you could even build pain stuff based on Mind Control. The system does not recognise pain, it is a special effect. As such, the GM has to stipulate how pain based effects are going to be built and allow the building of ignore pain to counter that build. The GM could indicate that is the default build and would have effect against other pain based powers regardless of build.

 

Doc

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

So what about attacks built as NND (pain touch)' date=' entangle (frozen with pain) you could even build pain stuff based on Mind Control. The system does not recognise pain, it is a special effect. As such, the GM has to stipulate how pain based effects are going to be built and allow the building of ignore pain to counter that build. The GM could indicate that is the default build and would have effect against other pain based powers regardless of build.[/quote']Pain as a special effect suggests Damage Resistance to me.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

The pain NND comes with it's set of powers that negate it so the target feels no pain would be one of those

the entangle should be based on Ego and take a -1/4 or -1/2 limitation only versus targets that feel pain

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Part of the problem we have with Hero is that no two visions will ever be identical, so if someone builds a character with the sfx 'feels no pain and another character with a NND 'Pain Touch' the NND defence might not be defined as any of the defences that the first character has so that, even though they 'feel no pain' the pain touch hurts them.

 

NNDs (and AVLD/ACAD in 6e) should almost always have a 'generic defence' defined in terms of the sfx of the NND: a pain touch should almost always be stopped by specific 'pain' defences. I apply the same logic to Drain: if you have an electricity based DEX drain, I would expect to see a limitation 'specific defences against electricity count as extra power defence -1/4'.

 

Whilst Hero can do anything, if it does it without sufficient forethought, very little sense will be made.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

OK, we're missing the simple answer: Damage Negation - Pain. Each level removes one DC of all pain-based SFX.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

OK' date=' we're missing the simple answer: Damage Negation - Pain. Each level removes one DC of all pain-based SFX.[/quote']

 

I think the problem to a large extent is knowing what attacks are based partly, or completely, on pain: most people would assume that if you get a punch in the mouth, at least some of the STUN is due to pain. Hero does not make that distinction - it doesn't make any distinction - it leaves that to you.

 

So if you assume that most attacks cause at least some pain, rather than buying defences that ONLY work against 'pain' attacks, buy defences (NR, DN, RP, whatever) with a -0 or -1/4 limitation: NOT versus attacks that do not cause pain.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Of course, one could simply sell back one's ability to feel pain. "Ignoring Pain" is not really advantageous if you're leaning on the stove, and your flesh is charring on the burner instead of feeling pain so you recoil without injury.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

which is my Cobra villain developed discriminatory smelling for the Orcs

so they would smell their flesh burning

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

Of course' date=' one could simply sell back one's ability to feel pain. "Ignoring Pain" is not really advantageous if you're leaning on the stove, and your flesh is charring on the burner instead of feeling pain so you recoil without injury.[/quote']

 

There's a difference between not experiencing pain, and being able to ignore it. If you could not experience pain then that would be something you'd pay for (probably with extra CON or defences, with limitations - as discussed) AND get points for through a physical complication.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I always thought constitution was somebodies health or physical make up

[Susano]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I always thought constitution was somebodies health or physical make up

 

A high CON score does indicate someone who is extremely healthy and/or in excellent physical shape. It also represents one's ability to resist shock (in this case being Stunned). Physical make up is often represented by BODY.

 

As the original post asked about "The person would still take damage, but would not be affected by the effects of Pain." I'd say that is represented by a high CON. You take the STUN, but you aren't affected by the shock and thus, aren't Stunned. At the same time, the phrase "Ignore Pain" makes me think of ways to reduce and/or ignore "pain" damage, which Hero represents with STUN. Personally, I think Damage Reduction; STUN Only (-1/2) represents that perfectly.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I think 1/2 is about right

[Susano]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

I think 1/2 is about right

 

1/2 what? Damage Reduction?

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

nods

[Lucius]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

This looks like a job for - Damage Negation!

 

 

OK' date=' we're missing the simple answer: Damage Negation - Pain. Each level removes one DC of all pain-based SFX.[/quote']

 

Darn, someone beat me to it.

 

 

Edit:

This is from my write up of Amazing Man in Public Domains Superheroes thread

 

35 3) The Third Test: To endure wounds unmoved by pain or fear.: (Total: 50 Active Cost, 35 Real Cost) Fearless (Real Cost: 14) plus Combat Luck (6 PD/6 ED) (Real Cost: 12) plus Resistance (3 points) (Real Cost: 3) plus Rapid Healing (5 Active Points); Requires Amazing Hardihood Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1) (Real Cost: 2) plus +8 PD (8 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; -1), Limited Power Only against attacks he is aware of and prepared for (-1/2), Limited Power STUN only (-1/2), Requires Amazing Willpower Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus +8 ED (8 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; -1), Limited Power Only against attacks he is aware of and prepared for (-1/2), Limited Power STUN only (-1/2), Requires Amazing Willpower Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4) (Real Cost: 2)

Notes: After taking a knife wound to the chest and to the throat, Amazing Man removed the blades himself and described the pain as "not unbearable."

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks this looks like a job for - Extradimensional Movement, backwards in time, to before Hugh Neilson made his post!

[pinecone]

Re: How to Build? : Ignore Pain

 

So what about attacks built as NND (pain touch), entangle (frozen with pain) you could even build pain stuff based on Mind Control. The system does not recognise pain, it is a special effect. As such, the GM has to stipulate how pain based effects are going to be built and allow the building of ignore pain to counter that build. The GM could indicate that is the default build and would have effect against other pain based powers regardless of build.

 

Doc

 

True, but you can buy Damage Reduction vs a sfx of "Pain" and it'l do all that though that might be unballenced.....