Thoughts about Vibora bay

[incrdbil]

With the announcement that the new zone, Vibora bay, will not be free access, but will cost money, reactions on the CO forums have been pretty unhappy.

 

How do you guys feel about it?

 

I don't know enough about it to say, but in general, the idea of paying money for access to a mere zone sounds like a bad idea. Expansion, I have no problem with paying money, but a zone..well, that bugs me. I think Cryptic really misjudged the reaction to this.

[Nevelon]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

Any time they want you to pay more, there will be a huge outcry. There is also a question about how big a zone is. Canada and the desert have a huge amount of content in them, another zone like that would be worth paying for. If it's just a small space, with 5 levels worth of content, I know I'll not buy it. I haven't seen a lot of details, just a lot of rumors and doom & gloom. Game forums are like that.

 

One question is what do you expect an expansion to have? Most are just more zones, new quests. Sometimes you get new mechanics or powersets. Free ones just have little additions, payed ones have major stuff. Another is how much they are charging. I expect a lot less from a $20 pack then from a $50 boxed expansion.

 

Right now I don't think there is enough information to make any sort of call. Not that most forumites won't get worked into a rabid frothing rant-war over the tiniest tidbit. (not you, there are some real characters over on the CO forums)

 

Once I see a formal release, with features and price, I'll make the call of weather or not to buy it. I try not to get worked up with rumors. So much can change before things release.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

This is one of the problems I have with the MMORPG model. Really, you should pay to buy the game, maybe pay a one time fee to set up your account and then buy significant expansions. No monthly fees, no itty packs for sale.

[hooligan x]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

That works if the game doesn't require maintaining servers and constantly updated content. Otherwise, it's a lot of effort resulting in bankruptcy.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

Seems to work fine for Guild Wars and some of the free MMOs ...

[Beast]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

I'd say

"Do you need to go there or can you still gain exp/adventure without it"

if it is not needed you can vote with your wallet

[CptPatriot]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

I'm a bit torn by the announcement. I paid for the lifetime subscription and while I have no problem them selling stuff like premium costume parts to help fuel more stuff for the community as a whole, many people I know feel that there wasn't enough content. I admit I'm not the most religious of players, I hardly felt like my experience as I level up now has been particularly fulfilling.

 

I hate to try to compare CO to WoW, but the journey as I leveled up my Mage to level 25 was much more of a challenge than my rise as a superhero to my current level 33. My journey to level 50 in CoX seemed more fulfilling than CO has been to date.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

Normally I wouldn't mind paying for an expansion, However CO has only been out for a few months, and there's scant meat on the content bones as it is. After one's first run through up to max level there is little reason to do it again other than to fiddle with different power sets. There have been a couple of quest chain adds since launch but that doesn't fill the content gaps needed to level, so one is relegated to taking the 'grind x' missions to fill in. Players have been telling Cryptic since COH beta that 'grind X' missions are dull. The current zones are large, yes, but not so large that I'm not eager for some more elbow room and new sights.

 

Quite frankly I'm amazed at the speed with which one can reach max level. It took me a year to max in CoX, more than that in WOW. I did it in two or three months in CO. The previous games left me more satisfied when I got there.

 

I have a lifetime subscription, and I don't regret it. CO can be an amusing diversion. Knowing then what I know now I don't think I would have made that expense though. And if I were a monthly subscriber I wouldn't expect to be continuing my subscription when the company expects me to pay for additional content on a game that is only half-baked.

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to compare CO to CoX and WOW as long as one maintains some perspective. I've played both of those games for years.

 

Cryptic/NCSoft clearly established in CoH that their Issues would be free added content, but the development costs for these came from money subscribers were paying in for previous months of play, and I presume on the investment of resources by the company in the expectation that continuing and returning subscriptions would offset the costs. Cryptic/NCSoft's initial paid expansion CoV was a game in its own right or an expansion of CoH. Free Issues continued to be supplied regularly regardless, and Cryptic/NCSoft's additional paid expansions have added significant features to an already full game.

 

Blizzard regularly added free small additions to WOW throughout its history as well, not as organized as the Issues of CoX but details here and there. The paid expansions have added wide swaths of fresh content in new zones, dungeons, challenges, races, loot and features including additional playable levels.

 

It seems to me the business model Cryptic is currently trying to emulate in CO is that of play-for-free MMOGs with additional content available for micropayments. Yet regular subscribers are being charged a premium monthly fee, comparable in price to any other MMOG. They can't have it both ways. Players expect more for the monthly subscription fee than server time.

[Zed-F]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

I've not been trying to keep up with what's going on re:CO recently as I'm pretty much done the game for now. I was planning to wait until a substantial amount of new content would be available before considering extending my subscription. I paid for 4 months of subscription at the outset, which actually got me 7 months with the 6-month deal and the month for buying the game. However, after around 4.5 months and levelling up several alts, I found there really wasn't that much left to do that I hadn't done enough times already and/or was really all that interested in doing.

 

Now I hear that the first expansion is upcoming and will cost some amount of money. Well, rah, I guess. I'm also going to be in wait-and-see mode on this. Just how much new content are we talking about, and for what price? Will we get additional subscription time with that content, or will it be extra? So far my experience with CO was decent enough, and I'm glad I did it, but that still does not make me a fan of subscription-only games. Like Sketchpad, I prefer the Guild Wars model.

 

So unless Cryptic really wows me with their x-pack, I'm thinking I'll likely hold off this time around, and wait until a little of the 'been there, done that' has worn off and I've got a higher interest level in revisiting CO before returning.

[Deadborder]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

If CO wasn't so painfully light on content allready, then I'd be somewhat miffed at the idea of paying for more content; Vibora Bay strikes me as the sort of content that other MMOs (Using WoW as an example) would drop as a free content patch. The problem is that CO is so painfully light on content as it is that asking players to pay for more seems to be a little unfair at the best of times. Asking players to pay for what should have been provided out of the box seems to be a rather cynical move.

[Arkham]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

Since Cryptic stated several times that anything that impacted gameplay would be free or capable of being earned in-game, I am horribly disappointed.

 

So much so that if I were a monthly subscriber, I would have canceled my subscription. But since I bought a Lifetime Subscription, I have no choice but to deal with it. At least if there is _some_ free content added later, it will be effortless for me to return and check it out.

 

In the meantime, I'm playing City of Heroes more.

[Certified]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

Vibora Bay, a single zone expansion not required for the game. Designed for levels 37-40. It will "appropriately priced" for its size. So what does all that mean? It sounds to me like they are testing the waters. Cyrptic has done multiple content updates so far including a new PVP arena, 2 holiday events (1 they will be bringing back on every full moon due to it's popularity) a new power set and a new five man raid for top level characters. (I may be forgetting somethings here). The monthly subscription is 15 dollars so they are charging as much as a top tier MMOG. However, their online store although mostly light does seem to be priced lower than WoW or City of Heroes the cost of a full respec is something like 10 dollars compared to if you bought everything needed to do something similar in WoW you're looking at about 25 dollars, I don't think you can buy them in CoH but a Reactor run and 2 hours does the trick then again you can always buy a rull RetCon with in game cash in CO, CoH booster packs are 10 dollars while they come with a power they are mostly premium costume options.

 

Taking this into consideration I would hope that Vibora Bay falls into this same category. It's a micro-expansion I think if they charged 5-10 dollars it wouldn't be too terrible. I would however expect that a lot of people skip this one just as they ignore the rest of the online store. The people who will buy this expansion are those who want additional content at these higher levels. Players who are satisfied with what they have now are not required to purchase Vibora Bay.

 

Of course CoH has spoiled me and I would like to see any content like this as a free expansion. I'd also like to see the costume sets in the store that complete patterns that already existed be free as well. That said so long as this is not the only method of expanding content I think I'm okay with it. I do believe Champions needs about twice to three times the zones it has now as too many characters have the exact same experience progressing through the levels. For whatever reason though I get the feeling that CO does not have the resources CoH did when it was developed nor does it have the same level of support. When I try to look at it objectively I can see the logic of small paid expansions I only hope that the content does not fall flat otherwise they run the risk of increased attrition from people who feel swindled and that's not a good reputation to have.

[GamePhil]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

On a personal level, I will likely buy the zone and enjoy it if they charge a reasonable price for it. The game doesn't seem light to me as it does to others, I'm enjoying it and will likely continue to, and I have all but one of my character slots already filled and even enjoy the same stories from another point of view. This is, I admit, a potentially slippery slope.

 

What I'm not qualified to judge is whether this decision is somehow "right". I see lots of people shouting about how WoW and CoH don't do this kind of thing, but not only is that not entirely true, but the companies that run these games are juggernauts that can pay for these improvements without much trouble. WoW in particular has so many subscribers that they can keep a staff on improving the game at all times without ever having to charge for expansions, and yet they still do so for major updates. NCSoft is gigantic, and can not only keep multiple MMO's going with large player bases but can easily field games that are free to subscribe, only charging for major updates. That base allows these companies great flexibility, flexibility I'm not sure Cryptic is capable of at this time. But I'd have to see the books to be sure that analysis is true, and that's not likely to happen. There are likely counter examples out there that are more like Cryptic's size, I'd like to know how they're doing and how they do it, but that's not likely to happen either.

 

I just don't know. Without knowing the internal workings of these companies, and for preference another company putting out an MMO that is around Cryptic's size and customer base, but manages to charge less, I can't judge. They feel like very different situations to me, something like WotC against, well, most of the gaming market. People that are used to the original D&D 3rd Edition prices were often shocked by the prices of books from small press companies, who would not have survived charging similar prices for similar quality books.

 

I'm not saying that this excuses them, necessarily, just that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that their pricing is what they have to do rather than being motivated by greed, so as long as I'm enjoying myself I'm willing to put out a little more for certain things. I've purchased both WoW expansions and all the little costume things in CoH, and gained far less enjoyment from them than I am from the game as it is right now. They proved entertaining enough for the price, so we'll see. $5 for a zone the size of MC is not something I will bat an eye at, and for all we know that's the kind of price we're talking about.

[lemming]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

On CoH extra bits, I did buy all of them. The Mac one, the martial art one for Ninja Run, and one of the earliest ones were worth the cost. The others, not so much, but I don't feel ripped off.

 

Respec's, I don't think you can buy them direct, but there are multiple ways of earning them including a way to craft them. (I don't know how many I have available from Veteran Awards)

[hooligan x]

Re: Thoughts about Vibora bay

 

Update: The Vibora Bay expansion (now named "Revelation") is now going to be free. Gripe and ye shall receive! And my new PC is in the tender hands of UPS so by next week I can finally ues my lifetime sub.