suggestions for OHID trigger?

[secretID]

Female Don Blake/Thor-type character*, but in Dark Champions. She first uncovers/receives her powers (i.e., is transformed and inhabited by Norse spirit) as her family is being slaughtered by vampires.

 

I'm looking for a way for her to trigger her OHID transformation that is limiting and interesting without being cute. Something like Don Blake or Billy Batson, but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions.

 

*Without the whole thing about how Don Blake was always really Thor, before finding the cane, etc.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Beast]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Accidental change into Hero ID 14- when normals are harmed or threatened

have the character wear a mask in normal ID when out on a mission(the character is an agent that becomes a super hero)

[Lucius]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

All these years, and I'm still a little fuzzy on what "Dark Champions" means.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if there should be a Bright Champions

[Rapier]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Usually street level heroes with lots of guns. Think Punisher or possibly at the north end of things, Daredevil.

 

EDIT: Oh and kind of a gritty, dark, Batmanesque not-unusual-to-end-up-killing-someone.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

All these years, and I'm still a little fuzzy on what "Dark Champions" means.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if there should be a Bright Champions

 

Usually street level heroes with lots of guns. Think Punisher or possibly at the north end of things, Daredevil.

 

EDIT: Oh and kind of a gritty, dark, Batmanesque not-unusual-to-end-up-killing-someone.

Don't forget spies and espionage, police/crime drama, et cetera. It's Modern without being Supers. I'm not sure why so many people act like DC is wierd or they can't figure out what it is. You can read the back of book right here in the forum.

 

Here’s our back-cover text describing DC:

 

DEADLY ACTION AND DARING ADVENTURE!

 

Dark Champions discusses and describes the modern-day action-adventure genre for gaming, covering everything from costumed vigilante crimefighters, to spies, to cops, to military action stories, to weird conspiracies, and beyond. It shows how to create characters, campaigns, abilities, weapons, and other elements of the genre using the HERO System rules. It includes:

 

—a complete review of the modern-day action-adventure genre in all its many forms, with guidelines and suggestions for simulating each part of the genre in the HERO System.

 

—an extensive section on creating Dark Champions characters, including two dozen Package Deals for various criminal, espionage, law enforcement, and military careers, information and expanded rules for popular Skills and Perks, and “super-skill” abilities for cinematic characters

 

—combat and adventuring rules for modern-day action games

 

—detailed chapters on firearms, weapons, and equipment for modern-day characters, including rules for designing and using your own weapons and gear

 

—information about criminalistics and forensic science, organized crime, terrorism, and other subjects

 

—advice for GMs about creating and running Dark Champions campaigns

 

Whatever type of modern-day games you enjoy, and however you like to play them, Dark Champions helps you make them even better!

[Tasha]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Don't forget spies and espionage' date=' police/crime drama, et cetera. It's Modern without being Supers. I'm not sure why so many people act like DC is wierd or they can't figure out what it is. You can read the back of book right here in the forum.[/quote']

 

Because the FIRST Dark Champions was about Street Level supers. So to many of us old timers. Having it encompass what used to be Danger International/Espionage (ie the original names for Normals Modern Genre) is not very obvious to us.

 

I am hoping that Dark Champions becomes Super Agents again (esp since Cryptic will be using the name in that way IIRC) and that the Normals level Modern Genres will be called something different (ie Modern Hero).

 

Tasha

[bigbywolfe]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Because the FIRST Dark Champions was about Street Level supers. So to many of us old timers. Having it encompass what used to be Danger International/Espionage (ie the original names for Normals Modern Genre) is not very obvious to us.

 

I am hoping that Dark Champions becomes Super Agents again (esp since Cryptic will be using the name in that way IIRC) and that the Normals level Modern Genres will be called something different (ie Modern Hero).

 

Tasha

 

It may not be "very obvious" to you old timers (as you put it) but if you can't figure it out "after all these years" (as Lucius put it) even though the description is right here on the website and the name has been used in the current manner for over five years, well...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Female Don Blake/Thor-type character*, but in Dark Champions. She first uncovers/receives her powers (i.e., is transformed and inhabited by Norse spirit) as her family is being slaughtered by vampires.

 

I'm looking for a way for her to trigger her OHID transformation that is limiting and interesting without being cute. Something like Don Blake or Billy Batson, but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions.

 

*Without the whole thing about how Don Blake was always really Thor, before finding the cane, etc.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

How about "When Blood is Shed," her own and/or someone else's in her presence? IMHO that's appropriate to both the Norse motif and Dark Champions style, and the sheer quantity of blood shed during the vampire attack on her family readily explains the emergence of her abilities. The OIHID condition could also be the basis for an interesting Accidental Change Disadvantage/Complication.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

"Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like it if I got angry...."

[Trencher]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

I second "sight of blood" if not that then "sight of predatory smile".

[Lucius]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

It may not be "very obvious" to you old timers (as you put it) but if you can't figure it out "after all these years" (as Lucius put it) even though the description is right here on the website and the name has been used in the current manner for over five years' date=' well...[/font']

 

Okay, if it's so obvious, can you explain to me what is meant here:

 

Female Don Blake/Thor-type character*, but in Dark Champions. She first uncovers/receives her powers (i.e., is transformed and inhabited by Norse spirit) as her family is being slaughtered by vampires.

 

I'm looking for a way for her to trigger her OHID transformation that is limiting and interesting without being cute. Something like Don Blake or Billy Batson, but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions.

 

I still have no clue what "something like Don Blake or Billy Batson, but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions" means.

 

So my response is "er...dunno...what the heck do you mean by 'Dark Champions' in this context?"

 

And frankly, given the difference between your answer and Rapier's, it seems that even in general there is still no consensus on just what the heck that phrase means. Let alone what the Original Poster meant by it in this specific case.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is still looking for Bright Champions

[secretID]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Okay' date=' if it's so obvious, can you explain to me what is meant here[/quote']

Well, that's entirely my fault. I saw the main differences in DC as extra realism, including blood and gore, and lower power. I haven't done DC before, and because of what I would call a misleading name and the details of this particular campaign, I didn't understand that DC was primarily for non-powered PCs.

 

I still have no clue what "something like Don Blake or Billy Batson, but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions" means.

 

So my response is "er...dunno...what the heck do you mean by 'Dark Champions' in this context?"

I basically meant less goofy and melodramatic, and possibly grimmer, if that word could make sense in the context of this question. You know - dark - since I was (apparently incorrectly) thinking of DC as being just that - Champions but darker.

[Lucius]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Usually street level heroes with lots of guns. Think Punisher or possibly at the north end of things, Daredevil.

 

EDIT: Oh and kind of a gritty, dark, Batmanesque not-unusual-to-end-up-killing-someone.

 

For the record, I literally avoided the Dark Champions forum for years because I assumed that this was the case.

 

I certainly wouldn't have bought the book, just as I would never have bought Champions.

 

Then I started reading the forum and discovered

 

Don't forget spies and espionage, police/crime drama, et cetera. It's Modern without being Supers.

 

Which still leaves the question - in that case, why call it "Dark Champions?" Is the intention to deliberately be confusing?

 

I'm not sure why so many people act like DC is wierd or they can't figure out what it is.

 

We act like it's weird because it is weird.

 

"Action Hero" would not be so weird, or even "Action/Adventure Hero." I have read the book, and given what's in it, "Dark Champions" is a weird name.

 

As for "can't figure out what it is," well I have the fifth edition book in my possession and can always answer the question "what is Dark Champions?" by holding up the book and saying "this is." That's not necessarily helpful. Especially if I'm the one asking the question.

 

It would be easier if everyone who used the term were using it in the same way, but if you think it means one thing, Rapier thinks it means something else, and SecretID has yet another idea, is it any wonder some of us "can't figure out what it means?" If you asked me based on what I see in the book, I'd say "Dark Champions means overwhelmingly obsessed with firearms" and then we have yet another POV. If I'm being less snarky, I might say "It's the same thing Pulp Hero is, but taking up chronologically about where Pulp Hero leaves off - Heroic adventure in an analogue of the 'real world' from mid-twentieth century to early twenty first."

 

The thing is, Bigbywolfe, even if I were actually sure I know what YOU mean when you say it, that only helps when you're talking - the moment someone else opens their mouth to say "Dark Champions" I am again - in the Dark.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Dark Palindromedary

[bigbywolfe]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

For the record, I literally avoided the Dark Champions forum for years because I assumed that this was the case.

 

I certainly wouldn't have bought the book, just as I would never have bought Champions.

 

Then I started reading the forum and discovered

 

 

 

Which still leaves the question - in that case, why call it "Dark Champions?" Is the intention to deliberately be confusing?

 

 

 

We act like it's weird because it is weird.

 

"Action Hero" would not be so weird, or even "Action/Adventure Hero." I have read the book, and given what's in it, "Dark Champions" is a weird name.

 

As for "can't figure out what it is," well I have the fifth edition book in my possession and can always answer the question "what is Dark Champions?" by holding up the book and saying "this is." That's not necessarily helpful. Especially if I'm the one asking the question.

 

It would be easier if everyone who used the term were using it in the same way, but if you think it means one thing, Rapier thinks it means something else, and SecretID has yet another idea, is it any wonder some of us "can't figure out what it means?" If you asked me based on what I see in the book, I'd say "Dark Champions means overwhelmingly obsessed with firearms" and then we have yet another POV. If I'm being less snarky, I might say "It's the same thing Pulp Hero is, but taking up chronologically about where Pulp Hero leaves off - Heroic adventure in an analogue of the 'real world' from mid-twentieth century to early twenty first."

 

The thing is, Bigbywolfe, even if I were actually sure I know what YOU mean when you say it, that only helps when you're talking - the moment someone else opens their mouth to say "Dark Champions" I am again - in the Dark.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Dark Palindromedary

The meaning I'm going by is what the back of the book says. You want a simplified summary? It's modern action and adventure up to and including low-powered supers, generally with a "darker" or grittier (not nessecarily 'realistic') tone. The fact that some people use it only for low-powered superhero/punisher type games and others use it exclusively for street crime cop drama doesn't change what the product is any more than the fact that some people use Champions for comical silver age misadventures and others use it for serious bronze age serial dramas changes what the Champions book itself is. The three of us didn't describe different products, we just focused on different uses of the same product. I'd argue I was most the thorough as I used the actual words of the publishers to illustrate the multiple uses, but whatever.

 

I mean if this:

Here’s our back-cover text describing DC:

Dark Champions discusses and describes the modern-day action-adventure genre for gaming, covering everything from costumed vigilante crimefighters, to spies, to cops, to military action stories, to weird conspiracies, and beyond.

doesn't clear it up then I don't know what possibly could...

 

EDIT: Thinking on it further, you could apply your complaint about people using different definition against every other genre of Hero game. I mean, is Pulp Hero about fighting Nazis or discovering dinosaurs? Sure Star Hero is sci fi, but is it about conquering the galactic Empire a la Star Wars, or bopping around the solar system Cowboy Bebop style? Is Champions a light hearted golden age game or a "gritty" iron age tragedy fest?

 

I'm new to the Hero system compared to many of you, so in some cases I lack some of the preconceived notions some of the old timers may have. But you know what I do when I can't figure out what something is or when 2 people tell me different things about a product? I look it up and that gives me a pretty good idea. I don't spend years ignoring a product and if I do I'm not going to go "man, I still just don't get what that is" when I never tried to find out in the first place. That approach is just baffling to me. And Lucius, I wasn't trying to aim this specifically at you personally, I've had this conversation before. It's always strange to me when I have to explain something to a vet with literally 5 to 10 times the experience that I have with the system, but more than strange, it's just plane weird when the official answer has been available right here on this very website for years...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

FWIW Steve Long said he wanted to keep the "Dark Champions" name because the company owned the rights to it (Cryptic Studios owns it now), and because it has name recognition. Before DC 5E was published there were many posts to these forums suggesting different names for the book and reasons for it like those raised on this thread, but Steve wanted Dark Champions, so that's what it is. Steve has said that he isn't going to discuss his reasoning on the subject any further (which I can understand and sympathize with), so that's probably all we'll get on the subject.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Almost forgot. Sorry to the OP for de-railing the thread, it was not my intention.

[Lucius]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

EDIT: Thinking on it further, you could apply your complaint about people using different definition against every other genre of Hero game. ...

 

And yet, somehow, I haven't noticed this sort of thing happening in the other genre forums. Have you?

 

And I didn't notice you answer my direct question. If you did in fact know what SecretID meant by "er...dunno - Dark Champions" then I have to admit that your perspicacity is greater than mine. If you did not know - why should you be surprised that I didn't know either?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary isn't claimking to know anything right now.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Lucius, there's a difference between not knowing what something actually is and not knowing if someone knows what a term means. I would assume he either wasn't sure himself what DC is (though his choice to post in the DC forum suggest he has an idea) or he wasn't sure about the campaign itself, since it sounds like a supers game and might qualify as plain ol' Champions. Either way, not knowing what he meant in his post is not the same as spending years not understanding what Dark Champions even means when there is a definition available.

 

EDIT: Actually, going back and reading the OP, yes, it is rather obvious what "er...dunno - Dark Champions" means if you actually read the sentence in front of it.

I'm looking for a way for her to trigger her OHID transformation that is limiting and interesting without being cute. Something like Don Blake or Billy Batson' date=' but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions.[/quote'] DC tends to be darker/more serious and he doesn't want the Trigger to be something cheesey like having to hollering Shazam! in public or having (melo)dramatically smack the ground with her walking stick in order to transform. He was looking for something less silly, less 4-color, more, well...Dark Champions appropriate.

 

Again Lucius, I wasn't trying to target you with my comment or start a fight. I thought I was being helpful by posting the actual definition of what Dark Champions is according to the creators (though it apparently hasn't helped since you still claim confusion). My comment about your "after all these years" statement was simply an after thought because I've seen other experienced Herophiles say similar things about products (not just DC) when there is an obvious way to find the answer and that seems really, really odd to me.

 

EDIT 2.0: I know we've pretty much demolished this thread already, but if anyone thinks I was rude or am not being understanding, or is still confused about what Dark Champions is, I think they should PM me about it or start a thread about the definition of DC.

[dmjalund]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

can't get more DC than illicit drugs

[Tasha]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

It may not be "very obvious" to you old timers (as you put it) but if you can't figure it out "after all these years" (as Lucius put it) even though the description is right here on the website and the name has been used in the current manner for over five years' date=' well...[/font']

 

I did "figure it out" but when I see and talk about the book my instinct is that it encompases Superheroes. Because, that's what the "Champions" name implies. I still believe that using a name that implies Superheroic roleplaying is a poor name for a book that encompasses non-superheroic roleplaying. I'll bet if you asked a hero system novice what genre they thought that "Dark Champions" talked about they would answer that it was a book about Superheroes, probably anti heroic characters like Martial Law, The Punisher, The Boys etc.

 

So while it may seem natural to expand "Dark Champions" to include Spys, Police Drama, Military Fiction and other Heroic Level Genres IMHO Dark Champions is a poor name for said book.

 

Tasha

 

PS sorry to the OP about the Thread Jack

[Tasha]

Re: suggestions for OHID trigger?

 

Female Don Blake/Thor-type character*, but in Dark Champions. She first uncovers/receives her powers (i.e., is transformed and inhabited by Norse spirit) as her family is being slaughtered by vampires.

 

I'm looking for a way for her to trigger her OHID transformation that is limiting and interesting without being cute. Something like Don Blake or Billy Batson, but more...er...dunno - Dark Champions.

 

*Without the whole thing about how Don Blake was always really Thor, before finding the cane, etc.

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Magic words might be the ticket. If she becomes a Valkyrie perhaps the words could be like "By Odin's Might" or something similar. If she is something else, she should use magic worlds that don't invoke the God of Death. To force a change back you could take a page from Thor and have her change back if she is seporated from her sword (or whatever weapon she uses). BTW if she IS a Valkyrie she could have an accidental change when she is near any battle and/or any death on the battlefield.

 

Tasha

 

Attempting to rerail said thread.