THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

[mallet]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I disagree. I want it all on the same page' date=' so I [b']don't[/b] have to flip to somewhere else in the book to see the rest of the write-up.

 

Really? because once you know the standard power write up, there is really no need to keep reprinting the same thing over and over and over again. Also, simplifying and making the character sheets easier to read and use can only help in sales and interest in using the system.

 

Here is an example of what I was thinking of...

 

In the section describing Standard Creature Powers you would find write ups like this:

 

Breath Weapon

Many mystical creatures have a powerful magical attack that emanates from their mouths (Like Dragons). This attack can take many forms like Fire, Lightning, and so on... (The write up would then go on in more depth).

 

The basic Breath attack shoots out in a 10m Cone and does 1d6 damage.

 

Breath Weapon: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Area Of Effect (10m Cone; +3/4) (22 Active Points); No Range (-1/2) (Real Cost: 15) (END: 2)

 

Every extra d6 damage doubles the real cost and END cost.

 

Then on the Creatures character sheet all you need to list is:

 

Breath Weapon (Fire) 3d6KA END:6

 

or

Breath Weapon (Lightning) 2d6KA (+5m Cone) END:4

 

-----------------

The person writing up the creature would of course still keep track of the costs and points, and those would show up in the final cost of the creature (so the GM can still have point totals to help figure out balance issues) but the extra stuff would be out of the way.

 

This would keep all of the math and repetitive details out of the way and make for a cleaner, easier to read and use character sheet.

 

Again, this is only for common or standard powers and abilities. Any unique powers would of course still be written up in full.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I disagree. I want it all on the same page' date=' so I [b']don't[/b] have to flip to somewhere else in the book to see the rest of the write-up.

 

I agree with Susano, although I would be OK with abbrevisated writeups containing the relevant mechanical components.

 

I also agree with the inclusion of North American mythical beasts. The addition of a reasonable number of new creatures seems more likely to attract cash from those who have the previous source books.

[dmjalund]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

also - perhaps rules and costings for having "advantageous" customized Hit Locations (and perhaps rules for translating this into effects when hit locations are not used)

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A section that discusses the usage of various monsters within the various genres and metagenres.

How do I use griffins in Star HERO? Horror HERO? Champions?

OTOH, how do I use the giant space amoeba in Fantasy HERO, Pulp HERO, or, dare I say it, Dark Champions?

 

I'm curious as to how much of Book of Dragons could be distilled down to Templates (Fire Dragon --> Fire Template, Ice Dragon --> Ice Template, etc).

If that were possible, that would easily add to the optional abilities that were in the HSB.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I assume dinosaurs will be in the "Mundane Beasts" section, as they were in the Fifth Edition Bestiary?

 

Yes, since they are in fact mundane animals, albeit big ones from the distant past. I'll be adding the ones from Inner-Earth, but those are the only additions.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I know the book is the "Bestiary" , and mainly deals with monsters but if there are no plans for a book containing human foes in the near future, maybe adding a few normal bad guys would be cool. Like Mafia Goon or Enemy Spy for example. That kind of thing, just to round out the bad guys for the players to fight angle.

 

I considered that, but it's simply going to make the book too big. What the HSB will have is the generic "Humanoid Templates" from MMM so that you can make your orc a shaman or chieftain or what have you.

 

Then, beyond that, I'm going to continue what we did in Champions: each genre book will have a section of "generic minions and thugs" specific to it (with the possible exception of FH, since the HSB will pretty much fill that niche for it). Thus, your Mafia Goon and Enemy Spy will be generic minions in the 6E version of Dark Champions, when we get around to that.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

perhaps a guide for making your own hit location chart

 

You mean, like the one that was published in the 5E HSB eight years ago, and has been in print all this time? That will certainly be a part of the 6E HSB, but if you want more info than that I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed -- there's really only so much I can say on the subject.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know if it's an option, but just because I've been spending some time recently trying to puzzle out how to best implement that sort of thing myself: how about a giant monster (of any type, really -- oversized amoeba, kaiju, giant space whale, whatever) with a proper "swallow whole" attack?

 

Again -- you mean like the rules published in the 5E HSB, in print for the past eight years? Those will be reprinted in the 6E HSB, too, but I'm not planning to change or expand them. (Though I do plan to add most of the "fighting giant monsters" supplemental rules from BoD.)

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm curious as to how much of Book of Dragons could be distilled down to Templates (Fire Dragon --> Fire Template, Ice Dragon --> Ice Template, etc).

If that were possible, that would easily add to the optional abilities that were in the HSB.

 

The 5E HSB already has a section of Templates like that for monsters and animals, and that will be carried forward into the 6E HSB.

[yamamura]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Kangaroos?

[Chimera 12]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Again -- you mean like the rules published in the 5E HSB' date=' in print for the past eight years? Those will be reprinted in the 6E HSB, too, but I'm not planning to change or expand them. (Though I do plan to add most of the "fighting giant monsters" supplemental rules from BoD.)[/quote']

 

Those will do then, I suppose -- not that I've ever actually seen them before, mind.

 

(Fun fact: I missed out on 5E completely both because I never spotted any material for it in the stores I visit/visited regularly and because my attention got sidetracked to other games. So with the recent chance discovery of the 6E core books in my favorite if nowadays rarely visited comic book store of all places while I had some money burning a hole into my pocket I've effectively jumped straight from Fourth Edition to Sixth.)

[BlackSword]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Oh and another thought.

 

A lot of these monsters have the same type of attacks (fangs, claws, and so on...) maybe one section of the book should have a section on animal attacks or "weapons" that has the basic write up of all of these standard attacks. Then the actual character sheet of the creature can just say Sharp Claws 2d6 pg.XX and a page reference number. Much like is done with Mystical villains who's spells are just named with a page number reference for looking up the spell. This would save a ton of room in the book, and on the creature character sheets.

 

Special attacks (for example Armor Piercing Claws) could be written up: Sharp Claws (+AP) 2d6 pg.XX

And descriptions of attacks (when needed) could also be added in: Dragon Breath (Ice) 5d6(AE:Cone) pg.XX

 

I think a write up style like this would make the book much more user friendly (and probably easier and quicker to write) then having to read/write a full power description every time or basically the same thing.

 

Of course any unique attacks or powers would still be written up in full on the sheet, but so many of these monsters and creatures have the same base attacks and powers it make a lot more sense to have one section describing all of these in full, and just putting a quick reference on the sheet.

 

At least in my opinion.

This did give me the thought that I wouldn't mind seeing a 'random' monster table. Several tables that have large/medium/small, hairy/scaly/gooey, claws/teeth/tail. I rarely use such tables randomly, but they are great for doing quick glances and putting together a unique critter.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

(Fun fact: I missed out on 5E completely both because I never spotted any material for it in the stores I visit/visited regularly and because my attention got sidetracked to other games. So with the recent chance discovery of the 6E core books in my favorite if nowadays rarely visited comic book store of all places while I had some money burning a hole into my pocket I've effectively jumped straight from Fourth Edition to Sixth.)

 

Just goes to show that no matter the wonders of the Internet Age, getting information to people who could make use of it remains much more difficult than we'd like.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Kangaroos?

 

Seconded.

 

Perhaps a mention of those so-called "carnivorous kangaroos" as well.

Oh, and maybe an option that allows a kangaroo to have boxing.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

1. For dogs, what if there was a sidebar that mentioned example breeds for each writeup?

 

2. Perhaps a discussion on playing as an animal - sort of like HERO's answer to D&D 3rd's Savage Species. Could probably be summed up as a blurb under "Campaign Use" for any given creature.

 

3. A staple of video games is to have enemy x have one color, but then later on in the game enemy y is the same but a different color, and thusly more powerful in some way (TVtropes calls it the Law of Chromatic Superiority). What if there was a blurb or so about this in the Templates section?

[gojira]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Chapter Four: Monsters From Around The World: Selected Celtic monsters from Tuala Morn' date='[/i'] and Oriental monsters from the Asian Bestiaries. Before you ask: no, I'm not going to add monsters from other places and cultures around the world; I don't have the time.

 

 

It strikes me as a bit odd to call a chapter "Monsters from around the world" if in fact you're only doing two specific cultures. Suggestion: break this up into two chapters, "Celtic Mythology" and "Asian Mythology." Add a short blurb of B.S. why these two were singled out (besides "we already had a book on it") and just go from there.

 

 

I know you've said you don't want to add a bunch of critters' date=' but I have to second this one. Or -- more specifically -- a handful of the major cryptozoological monsters. A bigfoot/yeti. A lake monster like Nessie/Ogopogo. A weird mystery predator like Chupacabra. A winged man-ish beastie like Mothman. I think these are worthwhile to add, being fairly common game-fodder, and not included (as far as I can remember) in other books. [/quote']

 

Like this idea, but the selection is a bit off for me. The only campaign I'm planning right now happens to be a Charles de Lint style urban fantasy, and I could really use both some modern "urban" mythological critters, as well as Amer-Indian mythological critters. Not a lot, but a small selection would be great. Probably not gonna happen per Steve's statement above, but I thought I'd toss the idea out there.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

While I also acknowledge that Steve is going to generally ignore creature requests, I will have to agree that there should be a few cryptids:

- Bigfoot/Yeti

- Loch Ness Monster is already covered by Plesiosaur

- La Chupacabra

 

Those ones are practically a must, but here are a few that may be interesting:

- Jersey Devil

- The Beast of Gevaudan, which may or may not be covered by wolves with a few mods, but there is the theory that it may have been a hyena

- Megalodon is just a Great White Shark with more Size Levels

- Mothman

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, folx, enough about cryptozoology. I see absolutely no need to do separate character sheets for various well-known cryptozoological creatures. All that's needed is a brief sidebar explaining which character sheets to use if you're so inclined. To use TMM's list:

 

Bigfoot/Yet ---> Gigantopithecus or Carnivorous Ape

Nessie ---> Plesiosaur

Chupacabra ---> Goblin with some unusual dietary habits, and perhaps the Spines Template or the like

Jersey Devil ---> any number of large mammal character sheets with the Wings Template

Beast of Gevaudan ---> Wolf or great cat character sheet with the Man-Eating or Ferocious Template

Megalodon ---> Megalodon (not a stretch, this one, really )

Mothman ---> Vulchine w/o claws, or Bird-Man

 

Any further information beyond that's simply going to have to wait until such time as I get to write Weird Conspiracy Hero or the like.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, folx, enough about cryptozoology. I see absolutely no need to do separate character sheets for various well-known cryptozoological creatures. All that's needed is a brief sidebar explaining which character sheets to use if you're so inclined. To use TMM's list:

 

Bigfoot/Yet ---> Gigantopithecus or Carnivorous Ape

Nessie ---> Plesiosaur

Chupacabra ---> Goblin with some unusual dietary habits, and perhaps the Spines Template or the like

Jersey Devil ---> any number of large mammal character sheets with the Wings Template

Beast of Gevaudan ---> Wolf or great cat character sheet with the Man-Eating or Ferocious Template

Megalodon ---> Megalodon (not a stretch, this one, really )

Mothman ---> Vulchine w/o claws, or Bird-Man

 

Any further information beyond that's simply going to have to wait until such time as I get to write Weird Conspiracy Hero or the like.

 

It seems like this could easily be handled either by having sidebars by a number of creatures ("what else could this writeup be used for") or a "bestiary in different genres" section which spells out alternate uses for various creatures just as you set out above - you've already written the first drfat of the Weird Conspiracy Hero section.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Chapter Four: Monsters From Around The World: Selected Celtic monsters from Tuala Morn' date='[/i'] and Oriental monsters from the Asian Bestiaries. Before you ask: no, I'm not going to add monsters from other places and cultures around the world; I don't have the time.

It strikes me as a bit odd to call a chapter "Monsters from around the world" if in fact you're only doing two specific cultures. Suggestion: break this up into two chapters' date=' "Celtic Mythology" and "Asian Mythology." Add a short blurb of B.S. why these two were singled out (besides "we already had a book on it") and just go from there.[/quote']Even so, there is a third culture with plenty of already-written monsters: Greek. A tremendous number of the mythological beasts in the 4E/5E HSB are from Greek mythology (I could probably compile a list easily enough, though I don't have the time at this exact moment).

[Lucius]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think there should be a second volume scheduled for a later year for creatures that didn't make the cut this time.

 

We can call it Second Bestiary.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Explaining to the palindromedary that it won't be in Bestiary or Second Bestiary and coping with the beast whining that it must be confined to the Worstiary then.

[Susano]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think there should be a second volume scheduled for a later year for creatures that didn't make the cut this time.

 

We can call it Second Bestiary.

 

Is that like "second breakfast"?

[Lucius]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Is that like "second breakfast"?

 

I was thinking we put the best creatures in the Bestiary and the second best creatures in the Second Bestiary.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Mollifying a palindromedary by reminding it that it's in a class by itself.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think there should be a second volume scheduled for a later year for creatures that didn't make the cut this time.

 

We can call it Second Bestiary.

 

I have to spread rep around before I can give any to Lucius; could someone else hit him for me?

 

I agree with Susano that I'd prefer to see as much as possible on the write-ups themselves rather than have to flip through the book to find the particulars of numerous animals' attacks and other powers. Having everything right there on one page is a feature rather than a bug as far as I'm concerned.

 

Does the current HSB have anything on swarms of small animals like rats, locusts, piranhas, etc. where an individual animal might have negligible stats but they could have more profound effects en masse? If not, that might be worth a few examples or at least a sidebar entry on how to handle such things.

 

They're probably too obscure for inclusion in a general bestiary, but I'd love to see a 6th edition take on the Ravens of Dispersion from The Super Mage Bestiary.

 

And, of course, another vote for the Rabbit of Caerbannog:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35343[/ATTACH]

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK' date=' folx, enough about cryptozoology. I see absolutely no need to do separate character sheets for various well-known cryptozoological creatures. All that's needed is a brief sidebar explaining which character sheets to use if you're so inclined.[/quote']That's cool. It gives a starting place for folks who might not otherwise immediately think of using those write-ups for such critters. I totally agree that's plenty for a general bestiary. It does raise another interesting point, though...

It seems like this could easily be handled either by having sidebars by a number of creatures ("what else could this writeup be used for") or a "bestiary in different genres" section which spells out alternate uses for various creatures just as you set out above - you've already written the first draft of the Weird Conspiracy Hero section.

I love this idea... especially the first part ("What else could this write-up be used for?"). I think it could help the book appeal to folks who might otherwise not realize what kind of use they could get out of it. Even playing in genres that don't include a lot of monsters or animals per se' date='[/i'] the write-ups can be used with different names for lots of assorted purposes. Suggesting some of those possible uses to spur creativity seems like it might be a good use of sidebar space where available.