Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

I am curious in the magic section is it more general ideas on how to implement a magic system or doe sit have some fairly well fleshed out examples.

"Yes."

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

I am curious in the magic section is it more general ideas on how to implement a magic system or doe sit have some fairly well fleshed out examples.

 

"Yes."

 

It has a number of sample magic systems, with very short lists of spells for each. Extensive lists will be in the Hero System Grimoire.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

It has a number of sample magic systems' date=' with very short lists of spells for each. Extensive lists will be in the [i']Hero System Grimoire[/i].

 

Which should hopefully have spells that can be adapted to any number of systems and their assumptions. Got a system where all spells take extra time to cast -- sometimes a lot of it? The beauty of Hero is that everything -- everything -- can be customized to fit your needs if you're willing to put in the effort.

 

You could even do a system, if you wanted to, where a caster takes a point of BODY damage every time he casts a spell, The damage is just like all other damage and heals at the normal rates (he can't cast a spell on himself to heal faster because that would be self-contradictory), so you could theoretically incapacitate or even kill yourself by casting enough spells at a go.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Which should hopefully have spells that can be adapted to any number of systems and their assumptions. Got a system where all spells take extra time to cast -- sometimes a lot of it? The beauty of Hero is that everything -- everything -- can be customized to fit your needs if you're willing to put in the effort.

 

You could even do a system, if you wanted to, where a caster takes a point of BODY damage every time he casts a spell, The damage is just like all other damage and heals at the normal rates (he can't cast a spell on himself to heal faster because that would be self-contradictory), so you could theoretically incapacitate or even kill yourself by casting enough spells at a go.

Theoretically, at least, you'd be taking...

 

...Ok, 60 AP power. Side Effects are 1/4 of AP (15 AP), 1/2 of AP (30 AP) and 1/1 of AP (60 AP). Side Effects occur ATT (All The Time). For that, we get -1/2, -1 and -2.

 

You'd take 3 DCs, 6 DCs or 12 DCs. Assuming you went with the lowest option and Killing dice, your 60 AP power would cost 40 RP and you'd die in 2 to 10 spells (Average of 3)...Personally, I'd add some extra rules for Takes Damage Side Effects. Because it just isn't worth it, otherwise.

 

I didn't have to do the math for that; I had a player try it. They were useless after, typically, one spell. And it wasn't that powerful.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Theoretically, at least, you'd be taking...

 

...Ok, 60 AP power. Side Effects are 1/4 of AP (15 AP), 1/2 of AP (30 AP) and 1/1 of AP (60 AP). Side Effects occur ATT (All The Time). For that, we get -1/2, -1 and -2.

 

You'd take 3 DCs, 6 DCs or 12 DCs. Assuming you went with the lowest option and Killing dice, your 60 AP power would cost 40 RP and you'd die in 2 to 10 spells (Average of 3)...Personally, I'd add some extra rules for Takes Damage Side Effects. Because it just isn't worth it, otherwise.

 

I didn't have to do the math for that; I had a player try it. They were useless after, typically, one spell. And it wasn't that powerful.

 

I wouldn't go any higher than 3 DC. Higher than that any nobody with any brains would have anything whatsoever to do with magic. Though it might be interesting in a campaign where only NPC villains use magic because it is inherently corrupting or required odious methods like making deals with the Devil to obtain.

 

In other words, in games when magic itself is inherently evil -- medieval pseudo-historical, for example. Witch-hunters wouldn't use magic themselves, but they would have good reason to hunt witches if magic was inherently malign.

 

That brings up another Limitation on magic -- Can Only be Used for Evil Purposes -- that would effectively limit magic to NPC villains.

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Theoretically, at least, you'd be taking...

 

...Ok, 60 AP power. Side Effects are 1/4 of AP (15 AP), 1/2 of AP (30 AP) and 1/1 of AP (60 AP). Side Effects occur ATT (All The Time). For that, we get -1/2, -1 and -2.

 

You'd take 3 DCs, 6 DCs or 12 DCs. Assuming you went with the lowest option and Killing dice, your 60 AP power would cost 40 RP and you'd die in 2 to 10 spells (Average of 3)...Personally, I'd add some extra rules for Takes Damage Side Effects. Because it just isn't worth it, otherwise.

 

I didn't have to do the math for that; I had a player try it. They were useless after, typically, one spell. And it wasn't that powerful.

 

No, no, no. To minimax Side Effect you don't take crazy suicidal stuff like RKAs, you take Aids or Density Increase or (more likely) COM Drains and Flash vs. Taste.

 

Area effect Side Effects are another good way to reduce the penalty to the caster and possibly have a useful effect (or at least annoy the other party members). Especially after you buy it triple radius autofire.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

I wouldn't go any higher than 3 DC. Higher than that any nobody with any brains would have anything whatsoever to do with magic. Though it might be interesting in a campaign where only NPC villains use magic because it is inherently corrupting or required odious methods like making deals with the Devil to obtain.

 

In other words, in games when magic itself is inherently evil -- medieval pseudo-historical, for example. Witch-hunters wouldn't use magic themselves, but they would have good reason to hunt witches if magic was inherently malign.

 

That brings up another Limitation on magic -- Can Only be Used for Evil Purposes -- that would effectively limit magic to NPC villains.

Drain BODY would work better. At the ATT 25% or -1/2 level, you loose 2.5 BODY on average (2, usually; BODY only costs 1 CP, but it is a "Defense Power", so it's halved) and you get them all back on Post-12. At 50% or -1, it'd still take one turn. 100% or -2, two turns.

 

Which would make a spell-caster a glass cannon that sometimes went into a coma, but you could cast the spell any time you're conscious (Ie, not in coma "death" due to negative BODY drain). Including circumstances in which other spellcasters would be completely incapable of casting (the traditional Gestures/Incatations/Focus/Expendable Foci). Only one to four spells, but it wouldn't kill you and, if the fight's lasted longer than that, you've got other problems.

 

You'd definitely need allies, though, or the survivors would kill you while you're coma'd.

No, no, no. To minimax Side Effect you don't take crazy suicidal stuff like RKAs, you take Aids or Density Increase or (more likely) COM Drains and Flash vs. Taste.

 

Area effect Side Effects are another good way to reduce the penalty to the caster and possibly have a useful effect (or at least annoy the other party members). Especially after you buy it triple radius autofire.

...Right, we're in a game together, you're the first PC or fellow party member I kill.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

You could even do a system' date=' if you wanted to, where a caster takes a point of BODY damage every time he casts a spell, The damage is just like all other damage and heals at the normal rates (he can't cast a spell on himself to heal faster because that would be self-contradictory), so you could theoretically incapacitate or even kill yourself by casting enough spells at a go.[/quote']

 

I actually tried a system like that, inspired by the magic user in the Golden voyage of Sinbad who got older and more decrepit, with every spell he cast. That was for a game where magic was quite rare and the rationale was that the mage was using his body's own energy to cast the spell. In that system, most mages had apprentices who could cast AID (costing them BOD, but pumping him up with life-force to cast spells). In the end, I decided it was too punitive, but I still kind of like the idea, for sword and sorcery style games, where spell casters are usually bad guys and heroes are rogues or mighty-thewed warriors.

 

cheers, Mark

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

...Right, we're in a game together, you're the first PC or fellow party member I kill.

 

What, your character can't handle a triple radius autofire PRE Drain? Or maybe I make it a 1 pip RKA so that I can "fail" a spell and kill all the vermin within 32 meters.

 

But if it really really bothers you I could define the AE as a line... straight up.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

What, your character can't handle a triple radius autofire PRE Drain? Or maybe I make it a 1 pip RKA so that I can "fail" a spell and kill all the vermin within 32 meters.

 

But if it really really bothers you I could define the AE as a line... straight up.

Munchkin.

[Beast]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

My only question is

 

How much is a change over FH 5th ed

10%,20%,30%

great art is nice,but what about the information

lots of new stuff,revamping of old stuff,cut and paste from 5th

 

this would be one I'd order from Hero as I would like to also have the PDF

but if there is not a whole lot of change why get it

 

can somebody list the new stuff

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Munchkin.

 

The best.

[Rolemancer]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Just an impression, not a complete read through.

 

What I liked:

 

Hardcover*

Size of the book (480pgs)

Full Color

Glossy Pages

Layout and Graphic Design

Artwork

Illustrative Quotes*

Handy Tables

Bibliography

Index

 

 

 

What I did not like:

 

*Like the hardcover but am concerned about appearance of adhesive binding instead of stitched, but if there is not future problem with pages falling out with healthy use of the book then it is a non-issue.

 

*Like the illustrative quotes, but they were much overused in my opinion, anywhere from 1 to 7 quotes on every page (from what I can tell by paging through) in the first 2 chapters alone, chapter 3 is a little better, then it starts to reach an acceptable level in chapter 4, even better in chapter 5, but they are still used the rest of the way.

 

The following wall of text will seem somewhat stressed to the extreme, but that is using the extreme as a tool to illustrate a point that the illustrative quoting was used in an extreme. I only use it in hopes that the next products will be treated with a bit more moderation in the illustrative quoting area, not to bash the entire work of Fantasy Hero 6E.

 

I understand that the first couple chapters are about getting into the fantasy genre, but with the bibliography in the back, which is very appreciated, the quotes could have been reduced by half easily and plenty of additional Fantasy Hero material that would have direct application could utilize that space instead, like a more extensive magic college / spell list as one possible example. Even with a possible grimoire or two coming out later, I would liked to have seen more spells per college and more colleges listed in this book and this could have been accomplished by eliminating half or more of the quotes throughout the book.

 

I see this is a popular dislike and the post about the greatest compliment received at GenCon about Fantasy Hero was the illustrative quotes strikes me as being somewhat odd because that is merely copying others' works. I would think the greatest compliment would have been about the author's work.

 

"I got just about the best compliment I could imagine when someone told me that all the illustrative quotes convinced him there was a lot of good Fantasy reading out there he’d missed, and that he intended to correct that."

 

The thing I like about them is that it helps stir the imagination, but that was overkill. I wasn't intent on buying a book for quotes, I was intent on buying Fantasy Hero. The bibliography with some quotes here and there, along with the italicized titles of additional sources in some paragraphs would have been plenty to show me there are more fantasy sources I need to be gleaning from.

 

 

However, the source I wanted to glean from the most was Fantasy Hero itself.

 

 

Overall the book is aesthetically appealing, looks meaty and invites me to read it over and over again. I really like that.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

When it comes to the races, templates and professions, I got more, in general, out of the quotes on a subject than the text that follows. I'd rather read a book that a .pdf, though, so I haven't gotten further than that.

[starblaze]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Stardust had that concept as well. Remember the witch that kept losing her beauty and youth as she cast spells?

[mkultra]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Hi Gang,

I just received my copy of Fantasy Hero in the mail. It arrived quicker then the initial estimate suggested. I could tell that extra care went into the packaging (Tina=awesome). As has been posted, the book is gorgeous. The PDF does not do it justice. Now, I need a nice long break from life's demands to some serious reading. I try to sneak a page or two on my iPhone but it's not the same.

 

If there is a "must read" chapter, would somebody please let

me know. Otherwise, it looks like I'll try to tackle this cover to cover.

[Thunder92]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

My only question is

 

How much is a change over FH 5th ed

10%,20%,30%

great art is nice,but what about the information

lots of new stuff,revamping of old stuff,cut and paste from 5th

 

this would be one I'd order from Hero as I would like to also have the PDF

but if there is not a whole lot of change why get it

 

can somebody list the new stuff

 

Also curious about the changes. Can't wait to order this book, but I'm in the middle of a move and waiting to settle on the new place before having it shipped.

[Thanee]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

A quick question for those who have the book already...

 

Are there a decent amount of spells in there already, or do I have to wait for the Grimoire coming out later this year for those?

 

Thanks!

 

Bye

Thanee

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

There is a lot of reprinted material from the 5th edition version. A lot. I would say most of it. Some new magic system samples and a few other bits. Most of the other stuff is just updates to 6E standards. For example, weapon DEF is now rPD/rED. That sort of thing. It is much better organized, but if you have the 5th edition version, I doubt you will find a whole lot that is new. For those that do not have that resource, it is an awesome product and near necessary purchase.

 

There are not a lot of spells. Most of them are example spells for the sample magic systems. It seems that, where possible, the same spell was written up for each magic system to demonstrate how it would look translated over. Sorry but the Grimoire is your best bet for spells.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Can't wait to order this book' date=' but I'm in the middle of a move and waiting to settle on the new place before having it shipped.[/quote']

 

Me too

[yukonhorror]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

not having any 5th edition material, I am going to pursue this with some extreme vigor after the pay period. If I can't get a hardback locally, will get the PDF (I think one is available).

 

I think it'll REALLY help with my efforts towards making my final fantasy hero game.

 

From what everyone says, it seems like it is a pretty good source for any fantasy-based game.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

It is an excellent resource for any fantasy-based game. Don't let my earlier comments about the relative "new-ness" detract from the book. The 5th edition version was one of my top 5 books. The 6th edition version is virtually a reprint with some updates and extra stuff in it.

 

And yes, there is a PDF available.

[Beast]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

and there lurks the 800 lb gorilla question

are the updates and new stuff worth getting if you already have FH 5th ed?

 

It is an excellent resource for any fantasy-based game. Don't let my earlier comments about the relative "new-ness" detract from the book. The 5th edition version was one of my top 5 books. The 6th edition version is virtually a reprint with some updates and extra stuff in it.

 

And yes, there is a PDF available.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

and there lurks the 800 lb gorilla question

are the updates and new stuff worth getting if you already have FH 5th ed?

Honestly, I would say not. As much as I want to be a company shill, unless you really want the 6E template (package) updates, new magic systems, want to be a completist, or just want something a little more colorful, I have to say no. Most of the text content is lifted directly from the 5E version. For the newly arrived HERO player it is a fantastic resource. For the veteran with the 5E version, I just don't see the point. In fact, as I was working on a project the last few days I pulled down the 5E version to have a hard copy version in addition to the PDF 6E version. I was looking up multiple references and the conversion was minimal.

[Beast]

Re: Fantasy Hero 6E - initial impressions

 

Same here I'd love to have everything,but money is tight

I'll be waiting for new original stuff or from 4th ed or before

 

just looking for an honest opinion

Thanks Nolgroth

repped

 

Honestly' date=' I would say not. As much as I want to be a company shill, unless you really want the 6E template (package) updates, new magic systems, want to be a completist, or just want something a little more colorful, I have to say no. Most of the text content is lifted directly from the 5E version. For the newly arrived HERO player it is a fantastic resource. For the veteran with the 5E version, I just don't see the point. In fact, as I was working on a project the last few days I pulled down the 5E version to have a hard copy version in addition to the PDF 6E version. I was looking up multiple references and the conversion was minimal.[/quote']