Mind control question

[megaplayboy]

Re: Mind control question

 

But contract law debates are fun and sexy! Why, just the other day I was contemplating the concept of efficient breach, when these two busty coeds walked in...

[OddHat]

Re: Mind control question

 

I agree with ShadowEater. "Target remembers the activity and thinks it was his own idea" seems to indicate that it is possible for the target to believe he was hungry, horny or tired. Having him remember "well, I wasn't hungry, but I decided to eat a cheeseburger, then I decided to have sex with a person I found completely and utterly repulsive and after that I forced myself to pee despite having no physical need to do so" seems inconsistent with the spirit of remembering the activity and thinking it was his own idea.

 

A lot like rules lawyers who, when Mind Controlled to "attack your teammate" asserts he may attack with only 1d6 of his 15d6 Blast because the Command was not specific as to the level of power to be used, or that his 5 STR Mentalist commanded to "close and attack that target" will run at his 3" velocity (as he is lame) to Punch his teammate, rather than close with his 40" of Flight and use his array of mental powers, for the move through for the same reasons. Which leads, inevitably, to the same type of extensive legalistic wording applied to Wishes in many D&D games, replacing the excitement, cinematics and heroism of the game with the thrills of contract law debates.

 

Exactly so.

 

I suspect that if the GM played along and said "Fine, you become incredibly, unbearably hungry" (due to a Mental Illusion) the same player would refuse to leave his post and go look for food, claiming that there's nothing in the Mental Illusions rules explicitly forcing him to do so.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Mind control question

 

Exactly so.

 

I suspect that if the GM played along and said "Fine, you become incredibly, unbearably hungry" (due to a Mental Illusion) the same player would refuse to leave his post and go look for food, claiming that there's nothing in the Mental Illusions rules explicitly forcing him to do so.

 

There is a mechanism for dealing with this...the guidelines suggest a 1 xp penalty for "playing out of character". Meta-gaming of this sort is precisely that...it breaks the illusion of role-play, ticks off the GM, and lowers the "fun level" of the game, imo.

[OddHat]

Re: Mind control question

 

There is a mechanism for dealing with this...the guidelines suggest a 1 xp penalty for "playing out of character". Meta-gaming of this sort is precisely that...it breaks the illusion of role-play' date=' ticks off the GM, and lowers the "fun level" of the game, imo.[/quote']

 

Or you could just use Mind Control to induce Hunger with the purpose of forcing a character to take an action, which is why Emotion Control has always been built with Mind Control as a base. "Mind Control Induced Hunger" is just a special effect for the mechanic (Mind Control) of forcing someone to do something.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Mind control question

 

Or you could just use Mind Control to induce Hunger with the purpose of forcing a character to take an action' date=' which is why Emotion Control has always been built with Mind Control as a base. "Mind Control Induced Hunger" is just a special effect for the mechanic (Mind Control) of forcing someone to do something.[/quote']

 

Having slept on it, I would buy this to an extent. You still have to frame it as an action: Mind Control (go eat something) as opposed to Mind Control (you're hungry). Plus, you're still facing everything else that goes with Mind Control; someone in a stupor after gorging themselves on a large holiday meal might be "violently opposed" to eating anything else and would therefore not feel the hunger that goes along with the command.

 

Imitating physical sensations is a perfectly legitimate use of Mental Illusions under most circumstances. For Mind Control, only in conjunction with a command, and only to the extent required to follow it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Mind control question

 

Having slept on it' date=' I would buy this to an extent. You still have to frame it as an action: Mind Control (go eat something) as opposed to Mind Control (you're hungry). Plus, you're still facing everything else that goes with Mind Control; someone in a stupor after gorging themselves on a large holiday meal might be "violently opposed" to eating anything else and would therefore not feel the hunger that goes along with the command. [/quote']

 

I think the term "violently opposed" gets thrown around far too readily,especially when we want mind control to be weaker. While I would expect it would be much easier to control someone who is already starving, easier to control someone who is hungry, and more difficult to control someone who is full, I find it hard to believe people tend to be "violently opposed" to eating ordinary food. By contrast, I suggest most people might reasonably be considered to be "violently opposed" to eating razor blades, arsenic or other people. If I accept that someone who just ate a large meal is "violently opposed" to another serving, then why bother with that command? May as well command them to eat a hand grenade, or a bottle of sleeping pills, since they're no more opposed to that than chowing down on another slice of that delicious pie.

[ShadowEater]

Re: Mind control question

 

One would have to be splitting their stomach open to be Violently Opposed to pie one would think... like the 'Gluttony' guy in the movie Seven. Eating something obviously dangerous (razorblades) or grossly against a moral code (other people) would get there though. I guess if the person's mind control was strong, and they kept eating and eating, they would eventually get to the violently opposed category. The deliciousness of said pie may offer a modifier

[prestidigitator]

Re: Mind control question

 

You can't make someone hallucinate using MC' date=' but you can make someone believe that they saw you yesterday.[/quote']

See, I'd call making someone believe they saw you yesterday either Telepathy (sending thoughts at the Ego+20 "memory" level) or a Mental Transform.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Mind control question

 

Summon a flying hamburger that then grapples itself down their throat?

That's worth some rep right there, if I can.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Mind control question

 

ok...my interpretation of Mind Control is you tell them to do something...so..."Go get a cheeseburger" would be fine. If you say something like..." Feel hungry. Get a burger. " I'd interpret that as two separate commands. One to feel hungry...and one to go get a burger. I don't allow paragraph long commands with Mind Control. I prefer the KISS method for that power. If you want virtual slavery...buy Psionic Surgery. You want Mind Control...keep it simple. Emotion Control is basically Mind Control saying " Feel Anger(Fear, whatever). I wouldn't let emotion control do any more than that. That's why it's a limitation after all. Mental Illusions can make a target feel and see things that aren't really there("mmm..tasty orange"), but you can't make anyone obey your commands(though you could certainly trick them into doing so). I've never really had trouble running these powers in my games to be honest. That's my take on it anyways....

[Utech]

Re: Mind control question

 

I think it's obvious from many of the thoughtful posts so far that there is plenty of overlap between Mind Control and Mental Illusions. I think we should embrace that as much (or as little) as we embrace having both standard attacks and killing attacks in the system -- they can both accomplish the same goal but have different mechanics.

 

Other obvious areas of overlap have also been suggested: Transform, Telepathy, TK, etc.

 

I prefer to give a great deal of latitude in what players are allowed to do with their powers and skills. Having tried the more restrictive approach, I just seem to have more fun saying "yes" more than "no".

[dmjalund]

Re: Mind control question

 

... Summon a flying hamburger that then grapples itself down their throat? A NND blast defined as choking on a summoned hamburger? Hrm... maybe teleport one into their mouth or stomach.

A standard attack for a cleric of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

[phoenix240]

Re: Mind control question

 

Of course... one could use TK to literally force their body to eat a hamburger... or force it down their throat... or use APG possession and have them eat it while you are in control, or... lets see... Summon a flying hamburger that then grapples itself down their throat? A NND blast defined as choking on a summoned hamburger? Hrm... maybe teleport one into their mouth or stomach.

 

Men shall tremble before.. The Buffet Burgermeister!

 

"When he says "All you can eat" he means all you CAN eat!"