Kid's Gloves Rules?

[Elysea]

I'm looking at starting a Champs campaign for a small group of friends -- me as the GM and three players. Two of the players have no experience with table-top RPG'ing, so I'd like to keep things as simple as possible for these new players -- I don't want to intimidate them with an overabundance of complicated math. Obviously I'll be doing most of the character-building for them, but I'm looking for some suggestions on what else I can do to help bring the new players in slow and easy. My ideas so far:

 

1. Ignore END. It's one of the things I dislike in Champs, that a superhero can be completely exhausted after a 24-second fight. We'll probably forget all about END costs, for starters.

 

2. Ignore BODY. We'll be running a pretty 4-color campaign, light-hearted and with an emphasis on role-playing and humor. I don't want to see anybody get killed, hero or villain, until the players have had a chance to mature a little. And keeping track of STUN is probably complicated enough for a first-timer. Killing Attacks will also not be allowed.

 

3. Free base, maybe a free vehicle. One less thing for them to worry about. Nothing too special, but servicable for basic super-hero needs. Probably include a MedBay so that I can give them an occasional cut or bruise so they don't get too over-confident in battle, without giving them the headache of staying in a civilian hospital.

 

Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[Lord Liaden]

I would imagine that you're leaving out all the optional combat rules and maneuvers, like Sweep, Hit Locations and the like. You might also drop Con Stunning for the first session. You might also consider leaving off Power Frameworks and Martial Arts from the first batch of characters you make with them.

 

If you have a subscription to Digital Hero and haven't already done so, I'd suggest downloading the HERO System Sidekick playtest manuscript and printing up copies for your players. This sounds like just the sort of situation that Sidekick was designed to help with, and Steve Long would be very interested to hear what worked and didn't work for your group.

[Supreme Serpent]

The ideas you already have are good.

 

Speed can sometimes be an issue for new HEROs. May want to make all of the characters/villains the same speed to start with to avoid confusions about "do I act this segment or not". If everyone in the fight goes on 3, 6, 9, and 12 it can make it easier.

 

You said ignore BODY - for characters, I agree. But I would still introduce the concept, for affecting inanimate objects and knockback (KB can be complicated, but is just too fun to leave out altogether! )

 

Leave out mental powers and presence attacks.

[Barton]

my 2 cents

 

I would leave BODY and killing attacks in. They are still important even in a 4 color game (I run a 4 color game).

My suggestion is you run a teenage mutant school game. Limit characters to maybe 150pts, with low limits on power levels and even which powers maybe taken. This would be my solution to your problem.

For an intro game run a "danger room" event so the players and you can get a feel of the mechanics.

Please be very descriptive of the events and people the characters will interact with. A good "story" really helps people get "into character".

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Elysea]

Lord Liaden: That's correct, not going to use much of the optional combat rules. Knockback will probably stay in, and if my one experienced player wants to use some of the optional rules and maneuvers, that may be a good way to slowly work them into the campaign. My experienced player wants to play a martial artist/gadgeteer, so he'll have lots of possibilities there. His character also has a "mysterious benefactor" who will be providing most of the group's equipment -- all very convenient. The other two have expressed interest in playing pseudo-mentalists. The lack of a team brick concerns me but I'm not planning on enforcing my idea of what a superhero team should be on my players. I'm not a Digital Hero subscriber but my interest is piqued -- tell me more about Sidekick?

 

Supreme Serpent: Good call on Speed. Thanks for the suggestion. Spd 4 should work nicely.

 

Barton: We're looking at a Teen Titans-esque theme to the campaign. Not sure how the two inexperienced players plan to flesh out their characters' backgrounds or explain their powers yet -- we'll see. I'm not too enthusiastic about making the team mutants, that can get a little maudalin sometimes. If the players can come up with good ideas for their characters we'll roll with that and then find a way to bring them all together into a group. I was planning on working with 200pt characters to begin with, haven't decided on how much of that will be disads yet.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys!

[Barton]

A further 2 cents,

Maybe only allow them to spend 150 pts out of the 200 pts and then after playing for awhile they get to spend the other 50pts after they know what they want/what fits with the character.

[Supreme Serpent]

Why not have the experienced gadgeteer character play the role of mentor himself? He will get "free points" in the form of the group's starting base/vehicles/etc.

 

If the game world's not anti-mutant, being mutants shouldn't be a big problem. If you're doing a Marvel-mutants-are-either-evil-or-misunderstood-verse, then yeah, could be a pain. It's your world - your choice.

 

Worried about not having a brick? Why not give the team an NPC robot member (maybe designed by the gadgeteer, maybe just found and activated/befriended) that can function as a brick. Fills a hole in the team, and can be a convenient temp character in case you have a new player sit in for a test session. Also handy for plot ideas - where did he come from? Who made him? When will he end up becoming Mechanon?

[Steve Long]

I'm not a Digital Hero subscriber but my interest is piqued -- tell me more about Sidekick?

 

Sidekick is a product we currently have in advanced playtesting. It's the sort of thing a lot of people sometimes refer to as "quick-play rules," but a better term in this case would be "HERO System teaching rules."

 

It's the core HERO System rules with all the options and complex stuff cut out, so that it's easier for newcomers to learn. However, the main goal of the product is "make it easy for people to learn the HERO System rules and become full HERO System players/customers," not "create a new, simple game." The rules I chose to omit are chosen within the limits necessary to teach people something that can easily transition to the full rules. For example, SK leaves in END and BODY, two things you're thinking about getting rid of, because without them the learning curve to transition from SK to full 5E rules is too steep. SK's about 25% as long as the full 5E rulebook.

 

If you're interested in joining the playtest, please drop me a line at SteveL@herogames.com. Your group sounds like just the sort of playtesters we're interested in. However, I should warn you that (a) it's a "formal" playtest, meaning I'll expect a report from you, and ( as a playtest it's generally only helpful if you use the manuscript as written (which means things like leaving in END, BODY, and Killing Attacks).

[mattingly]

If your two new players want to be mentalists, give them different specialties. Make one a telepath and the other a telekinetic -- who can also fill the role of team brick.

 

Go light on the Limitations. Make the Powers as straightforward as you can. In a similar vein, don't use any Frameworks for the new characters. Let them be introduced to the concept by the gadgeteer's VPP. Go ahead and spend 200 points for them, making essentially a 150-point character with unoptimized points. That way, the experienced gadgeteer can spend his "extra" 50 points on team base/vehicle/equipment.

 

Ignoring END and BODY for the first game might work, but I'd add one or two new rules per game session until they got the hang of things.

 

If this is their first time roleplaying, don't go straight into a danger room. Give them an hour or two of roleplaying. Maybe even have them play out their solo origin stories before they come together as a team.

[Elysea]

I know one of the mentalists wants to play an illusionist/trickster-type mentalist rather than a Force Field/TK/Ego Attack kind of mentalist, so there should be plenty of room for them each to fill their own niche. I'm confident that the three can perform adequately as a team without a traditional brick or energy projector if they're creative.

 

The more experienced player and I have started running a campaign with just the two of us, based on Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. He's GM'ing, I'm playing. I'll be trying to get the two new players to sit in for a few of those sessions to see how the system plays before we begin the four-player campaign. Obviously Fantasy-type Hero and Champions Hero are a little different but it should still be a valuable experience for them.

 

I'll slowly introduce BODY into the campaign, after a session or two -- I don't want them to believe that they're invincible and combat gets boring if there's no risk involved. END I'm up in the air about -- it's semi-realistic and it makes you have to fight more intelligently when you have END to conserve and spend wisely, but it may bog us down a little too much. Maybe we'll try it after awhile and if it makes the game significantly less enjoyable for the newer players we can back off from it.

 

And yes -- combat's just one part of a Champs game. I'll probably keep the first session or two light on combat and heavy on set-up and role-playing.

 

Steve: I'll be dropping you an e-mail. Thanks!

[John515]

Unless your players are really opposed to it, creating the charcters as mutants would be good. It will simplify the creation process. I would also suggest that you sit down w/each player individually and interview them as you create a rough draft while they are present. That way you can explain to them how everything work together on the sheet and will provide that much more exposure to the rules mechanics (END, BODY, STUN, REC, etc). I did this with my players and it has, so far, seemed to be working. Best of luck!

[Killer Shrike]

I would highly recommend NOT ignoring BODY. Its integral to many mechanics in the game, and causes a logical void.

 

Anyway, all gamers should be comfortable with some kind of mechanic to determine "how much damage can I take" -- even if theyve only played video games. Without some kind of damage resolution you might as well play Cowboys and Indians (I shot you! No you didnt!)

 

If you want to do aways with END, just buy all the characters powers with 0 END and increase the overall point range you are looking at to compensate for the price difference. That way the mechanic is still there, but the newbie players dont have to worry about it.

[Mr. Negative]

On the topic of END/STUN/BODY, one of the big things that seems to confuse players is writing down and altering these totals during the game. Since you have a relatively small group, you might try this suggestion:

 

Use counters and cups for each of the totals. Use counters of different colors for END, STUN, and BODY. Label each cup, for each player. The players, of course, start with all three at their normal maximums.

 

As they declare actions, have them "pay out" the END, and pay it back in during Recoveries.

 

Similarly, they "pay out" STUN and BODY as they get hit.

 

This also has some fun uses in normal games. No one seems to keep exact track of what their current totals are, so they just have to "eyeball" it during play. If you use semi-clear cups, so that others can see "roughly" how exhausted/hurt someone is, it can even be fun to use for the villains. Lay down a big cup of stun for a beefy bruiser, and everyone already knows that trouble is brewing. Plus, they can have an idea of what they are doing to the opposition, without having to keep notes. "I know that's the injured one---he has hardly any BODY counters left!"

[Mr. Ooze]

Originally posted by Mr. Negative

On the topic of END/STUN/BODY, one of the big things that seems to confuse players is writing down and altering these totals during the game. Since you have a relatively small group, you might try this suggestion:

 

Use counters and cups for each of the totals. Use counters of different colors for END, STUN, and BODY. Label each cup, for each player. The players, of course, start with all three at their normal maximums.

 

As they declare actions, have them "pay out" the END, and pay it back in during Recoveries.

 

Similarly, they "pay out" STUN and BODY as they get hit.

 

This also has some fun uses in normal games. No one seems to keep exact track of what their current totals are, so they just have to "eyeball" it during play. If you use semi-clear cups, so that others can see "roughly" how exhausted/hurt someone is, it can even be fun to use for the villains. Lay down a big cup of stun for a beefy bruiser, and everyone already knows that trouble is brewing. Plus, they can have an idea of what they are doing to the opposition, without having to keep notes. "I know that's the injured one---he has hardly any BODY counters left!"

 

Wow. That is quite honestly the coolest idea I've ever heard for introducing new players to the whole stun/body/end triad. Geting them used to the whole math of combat is half the trouble (The speed chart is the other half) especially when they come from a d20 system, and all they have to keep track of is HP.

[Tom Carman]

Originally posted by Mr. Negative

On the topic of END/STUN/BODY, one of the big things that seems to confuse players is writing down and altering these totals during the game. Since you have a relatively small group, you might try this suggestion:

 

Use counters and cups for each of the totals. Use counters of different colors for END, STUN, and BODY. Label each cup, for each player. The players, of course, start with all three at their normal maximums.

 

As they declare actions, have them "pay out" the END, and pay it back in during Recoveries.

 

Similarly, they "pay out" STUN and BODY as they get hit.

 

This also has some fun uses in normal games. No one seems to keep exact track of what their current totals are, so they just have to "eyeball" it during play. If you use semi-clear cups, so that others can see "roughly" how exhausted/hurt someone is, it can even be fun to use for the villains. Lay down a big cup of stun for a beefy bruiser, and everyone already knows that trouble is brewing. Plus, they can have an idea of what they are doing to the opposition, without having to keep notes. "I know that's the injured one---he has hardly any BODY counters left!"

Here's an extension of this concept: don't use red or yellow (maybe orange) counters for END / STUN / BODY. But when a character goes negative on STUN or BODY, hand the player these negative-color counters to place in their cups. Green/Red is a good combo for positive and negative BODY, and Blue/Yellow for STUN.

[Elysea]

I was only planning on ignoring BODY when it came to attacks on PCs and NPCs. We'd still be using STUN, so there would still be "hitpoints" as it were, to avoid the mentioned "cowboys and indians" scenario. It would just be that the worst that could happen to the characters would be getting knocked unconscious and waking up in the villain's secret lair, or whatever the story dictated. It isn't very Saturday-morning-cartoonish for one of the heroes to get mangled by an enemy -- it's just not the genre. And since that's the genre I'm aiming for, I didn't want it to be a concern. Inanimate objects would, of course, retain their usual BODY, so the players would have some exposure to it when Entangles and the like came into play, and we could perhaps introduce BODY into the campaign for the players once they were out of their cribs, but I didn't want them to have to worry about it on their first outing.

 

I like the idea of counters for the players to keep track of -- I'll have to see if I can come up with some poker chips or the like. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

I'll probably just make Speed 4 mandatory for all three characters to make sure there's no Speed Chart confusion.

[Killer Shrike]

As you note, supers getting killed is not in genre, and the HERO System models this well (it was afterall originally a superhero RPG).

 

I think youll find that unless your PCs have no defense at all, Normal Damage Attacks will knock them out long before they kill them.

 

Its remarkably difficult to kill people in Champions (or any genre not using the more gritty optional Hit Locations) if you dont use Killing Attacks.

[Elysea]

I agree that the heroes getting killed is a longshot. Their deaths isn't my only concern though.

 

Concern #1 is that BODY is just one more stat to keep track of. For brand-new players, I think STUN and END are enough to keep track of if we want combat to move along without getting too bogged down.

 

Concern #2 is that even if they're not killed, BODY damage doesn't heal too quickly and a little bit goes a long way. To keep the first few sessions breezy and light-hearted while the new players climb the learning curve, I don't want seriously wound them. I'm not proposing leaving BODY out of the campaign entirely; just not introducing it right away. If one of the new player's characters spends a month in a hospital because they didn't know they could Abort to Dodge, or that their Force Field would go down at the end of the Segment if they got Stunned, or that they would take an extra die of Knockback because they were flying, it'll leave them with a bad first impression of the game. I'm pretty much just trying to give them a safety net while they learn.

 

[Edited for grammar]

[MoonHunter]

Teaching is easy:

 

You can start without many of the rules being discussed. However, you can build up your player's hero skills AND bring in new rules by running Video Game Sessions.

 

A "Video Game Session" where the characters are run through tactical situations without worrying about roleplaying or the continuity of the campaign. These sessions teach players more about the rules, how to use them quickly, what their characters can do, and lets the players experiment on with actions. Video games sessions come in two varieties: The Run and Fighting game: The Run is characters run through an obstacle course: full of things to jump, places to balance, weights to shift, things to spot, vehicles to drive, rings to pick up, and other such things. The fighting game is just that: characters vs characters or monsters in Arena combat. You can keep the video game feel by giving everyone one life for a quarter. This is a great way to kill time while one player is running late.

 

Now I would use a video game session to teach them about segments and phases, as well as combat rolls, stun and body (I would count body for knockback purposes... but I might suggest adding +1d6 to the dice rolled for knockback).

 

Every few weeks, you run another video game session. Add another element of rules AND it gives the players a better understanding of what their cahracters can do and the game mechanics that simulate that.

 

You can now catch a monthly does of MoonHunter at

http://www.silven.com

http://www.silven.com/articles.asp?case=ezine&month=10&year=2003 to be exact

 

[Ranxerox]

I started GMing champions when I was 14. I've GMed kids as young as age 11. I've also GMed plenty of players who by their ons admission weren't very good at math. None of the people that I have GMed have ever had any problem with the concepts of STUN, BODY or Knockback past the first adventure.

 

Knockback in particular I have always found to be popular with newbie gamers. There is just something fun about knowing that your characters punch sent the villian flying 18 feet.

 

Just explain everything in there simplest and most basic terms. "When your character runs out of STUN he is unconscious. When your character runs out of BODY he is dead." It doesn't need to be more complicated than that a first. Don't try to explain game mechanics in advance, but just intraduce them as they come up. "It's round twelve so everybody gets to recover back some of the STUN that they have lost. You have a REC of 8 so you get to recover 8 and you have a REC of 10 so you get to recover 10."

 

Just keep it simple and resist the powerful urge to over explain and everyone will understand the basic of combat by the end of the first one and not even have been aware of just having been taught anything.