Double Tap

[McCoy]

I have a character who is basically Matt Parkman, a cop with some telepathic abilities. His attacks are focused, and the most lethal is his sidearm.

 

Thinking about the character, there are times when it would be appropriate for him to "double tap," quickly squeeze off two rounds at a single target.

 

I'm thinking of asking the GM if I can buy a naked advantage, autofire, 2 shots only, single target only, only with pistols. But before I do I wanted to ask herodom assembled: Is this a logical "skill" for the character to acquire, or a munchkinish attempt to get around the attack Active Point limit?

 

Has someone got a better way to model double tap? Campaign is using 5th ed rules.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Double Tap

 

That's pretty much the way it's built in Dark Champions for 5E. I see no problem with it.

 

Another possible build would be the Rapid Attack skill, with the limitation, only usable for 2 pistol shots at same target. That's a big limitation, so this is a very 'cheap' build.

[Beast]

Re: Double Tap

 

what about a large rka with reduced penatration(4d6rka = 2x2d6 rka)+ 8 skill levels vs location

 

 

double tapping with a .44: Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), 4 clips of 3 Charges (-3/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Double Tap

 

I'm not much of a firearms guy, but I had another thought; levels with guns with the limitation that it expends an additional bullet to use them. You could use them for either damage (both shots hit) or accuracy (at least one bullet will hit).

[Tasha]

Re: Double Tap

 

I have a character who is basically Matt Parkman, a cop with some telepathic abilities. His attacks are focused, and the most lethal is his sidearm.

 

Thinking about the character, there are times when it would be appropriate for him to "double tap," quickly squeeze off two rounds at a single target.

 

I'm thinking of asking the GM if I can buy a naked advantage, autofire, 2 shots only, single target only, only with pistols. But before I do I wanted to ask herodom assembled: Is this a logical "skill" for the character to acquire, or a munchkinish attempt to get around the attack Active Point limit?

 

Has someone got a better way to model double tap? Campaign is using 5th ed rules.

 

OK Rapid fire (pg396 5er) IS built into the rules so you CAN double tap a target with no other weird writeups.

 

Rapid Attack (pg 68 5er) + 2 levels with Rapid Fire (pg396 5er) to offset the OCV penalty. It does still half your DCV and you COULD buy levels with DCV to offset the halving.

[Querysphinx]

Re: Double Tap

 

Just go with the autofire: It's simple. It does what you want. It involves no mental gymnastics. These are all big plusses. Talk to the GM first, of course, but simpler is usually better.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Double Tap

 

Either Rapid Attack or Autofire will work, depending on how much you want to spend and whether you want your DCV halved or not. I have used both for this kind of thing, and it boils down to how realistic a tone your campaign has. The Rapid Attack is good for a gritty or espionage type setting, Autofire is better for wuxia or comic book type setting. I will say that the Rapid Attack version will make the player think twice before doing a double tap because of the DCV penalty, whereas the Autofire will get used a lot since there is little reason not to.

[brionl]

Re: Double Tap

 

I usually try to avoid the "real world" thing, but in a lot of shooting sports "double-tap" is a standard move. Which it probably wouldn't be if it significantly lowered your accuracy. And it does get used a lot, so you should probably go with the Autofire.

[Wolf]

Re: Double Tap

 

Today the double tap is pretty widely used. I'm not in the cops, and my buddy who is, says that it's really kinda pitiful (considering the things they go up against) the piss poor amount of Pistol training they do in the police. That said, it's pretty easy to get a membership to a local gun club, and take a day or two a week and get yourself trained up on it.

 

Two things though (depending on your school of thought):

Pistols (real world thoughts, NOT movie/cinimatic theory- depending on how your game is being run) are really considered pretty last ditch, due to the shorter barrels and smaller rounds (than rifles or SMG's- and lets face it, you can now get most combat rifles about as big as an MP5 these days). The term sidearm really puts it in perspective. That said more groups (agencies/military/SWAT/etc) are training up a chopped down M-4 variant and using those for "assualt" or entry, and they use pistols as a escape tactic, or (again) last ditch.

 

Two- the double tap is more considered a added "stopping power" move by most. It kinda goes into the classic saying, "two in the head, you know their dead." type line of reason. So again it's more along the lines of SWAT in the civilian world, and definately has more of a place in military theory or assualt-craft than in a police man's toolbox. However, again, if the cops in your GM's world are like the ones in the movies (Die Hard series as an example) then it's very much a part of what you want to look at.

 

My 2 brass.

[McCoy]

Re: Double Tap

 

OK Rapid fire (pg396 5er) IS built into the rules so you CAN double tap a target with no other weird writeups.

 

Rapid Attack (pg 68 5er) + 2 levels with Rapid Fire (pg396 5er) to offset the OCV penalty. It does still half your DCV and you COULD buy levels with DCV to offset the halving.

Do'H! Rapid fire is exactly what I'm looking for! Have some rep!

[McCoy]

Re: Double Tap

 

Two- the double tap is more considered a added "stopping power" move by most. It kinda goes into the classic saying, "two in the head, you know their dead." type line of reason. So again it's more along the lines of SWAT in the civilian world, and definately has more of a place in military theory or assualt-craft than in a police man's toolbox. However, again, if the cops in your GM's world are like the ones in the movies (Die Hard series as an example) then it's very much a part of what you want to look at.

 

My 2 brass.

My character is a cop who wants to stay a cop, doesn't want a heroic ID (secret or otherwise), but who is put in a position where he has to take on Supers. Double Tap would be reserved for times when shooting them once makes them mad.

[Wolf]

Re: Double Tap

 

As the mechanical aspect had been pretty well covered, I was just trying to answer this part of the question:

Is this a logical "skill" for the character to acquire' date=' or a munchkinish attempt to get around the attack Active Point limit?[/quote']

 

Do I think a cop in your character's situation should be trained in a double tap, yes. Do I think every cop should be trained in a double tap (real world speaking)? Absolutely.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Double Tap

 

Do I think every cop should be trained in a double tap (real world speaking)? Absolutely.

 

Actually, this is a good skill for anyone who uses firearms to know. The thinking behind it is fairly straightforward:

 

1. Fire Gun once.

 

2. Do I still have ammo?

 

A. Yes: Double-tap.

 

B. No: Reload.

[Wolf]

Re: Double Tap

 

LOL, agreed, Rep given.

[Susano]

Re: Double Tap

 

Actually, this is a good skill for anyone who uses firearms to know. The thinking behind it is fairly straightforward:

 

1. Fire Gun once.

 

2. Do I still have ammo?

 

A. Yes: Double-tap.

 

B. No: Reload.

 

Actually, I think the rule is that if you're not firing, you should be moving and/or reloading.

[Tom]

Re: Double Tap

 

I can't speak for all states, but in OH double tap is the standard training/qualification requirement for LE and armed security. (as is 'tactical reload' for pistols)

[pinecone]

Re: Double Tap

 

I have a character who is basically Matt Parkman, a cop with some telepathic abilities. His attacks are focused, and the most lethal is his sidearm.

 

Thinking about the character, there are times when it would be appropriate for him to "double tap," quickly squeeze off two rounds at a single target.

 

I'm thinking of asking the GM if I can buy a naked advantage, autofire, 2 shots only, single target only, only with pistols. But before I do I wanted to ask herodom assembled: Is this a logical "skill" for the character to acquire, or a munchkinish attempt to get around the attack Active Point limit?

 

Has someone got a better way to model double tap? Campaign is using 5th ed rules.

 

Rapid attack: Ranged? Haymaker? (+4DC< SFX use two shots?...) even buy it as a Martial move (Offensive shot?)

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Double Tap

 

Actually' date=' I think the rule is that if you're not firing, you should be moving and/or reloading.[/quote']

 

Warning: Inside Joke ahead.

 

We'll just add that to the (long) list of stuff Mitch was doing wrong in Shadows Angelus 2.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Double Tap

 

Today the double tap is pretty widely used. I'm not in the cops' date=' and my buddy who is, says that it's really kinda pitiful (considering the things they go up against) the piss poor amount of Pistol training they do in the police. That said, it's pretty easy to get a membership to a local gun club, and take a day or two a week and get yourself trained up on it.[/quote']

Where is he a police officer? I might avoid that town. My brother is a sheriff’s deputy in a county in Florida and their pistol training is pretty intense.

 

Two things though (depending on your school of thought):

Pistols (real world thoughts' date=' NOT movie/cinimatic theory- depending on how your game is being run) are really considered pretty last ditch, due to the shorter barrels and smaller rounds (than rifles or SMG's- and lets face it, you can now get most combat rifles about as big as an MP5 these days). The term sidearm really puts it in perspective. That said more groups (agencies/military/SWAT/etc) are training up a chopped down M-4 variant and using those for "assualt" or entry, and they use pistols as a escape tactic, or (again) last ditch.[/font']

I'm sure this may vary from place to place, but again using my brother (and those I know in the local police up here in my area of Wisconsin) as example the pistol is the primary firearm, not by any means a "last ditch" weapon. He has rarely had occasion to use his AR-15 or 12 Gauge (both of which he keeps in his squad car) but has had to draw his pistol a number of times. Even when executing an arrest warrant for someone suspected to be "armed and dangerous" there will usually be one or maybe two people with assault rifles while the rest go in with hand guns.

 

Two- the double tap is more considered a added "stopping power" move by most. It kinda goes into the classic saying' date=' "two in the head, you know their dead." type line of reason. So again it's more along the lines of SWAT in the civilian world, and definately has more of a place in military theory or assualt-craft than in a police man's toolbox. However, again, if the cops in your GM's world are like the ones in the movies (Die Hard series as an example) then it's very much a part of what you want to look at. [/quote']

All the police/deputies I know are trained to double tap and I don't know any SWAT or special forces of any kind. The fact that it is a "'stopping power' move" as you put it, is exactly why it is average beat cops all around the country are trained to use it. If you have to shoot, two shots to center mass is pretty much the standard from everyone I know.

 

Of course, your experience may vary…

 

My 2 brass.