base 5 point stats? problems with that?

[runescience]

our dm is starting a 5th Edition fantasy game with 5 point stats, and giving us 30 points to play with to build character stats, then another 30 points to add skills.

 

Does any one see inherent problems with that?

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

our dm is starting a 5th Edition fantasy game with 5 point stats, and giving us 30 points to play with to build character stats, then another 30 points to add skills.

 

Does any one see inherent problems with that?

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with playing low-powered characters, but those guidelines do sound awfully low. You don't have enough points to buy all your Characteristics back up to 8.

[Sociotard]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

Are you getting any disadvantage points?

 

My first thought was that this might be one way to get a Hero version of "kobolds ate my baby".

[runescience]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

40 in stats and 30 points in skills and powers.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

There isn't anything wrong with a low power level but starting with stats at 5 is a bit weird when everyone else you meet should have stats of 8-10. If everyone else uses 5 as the average then there seems little point to the exercise.

 

What's the scenario? Why are you playing people with lower stats than the average person on the streets/in the fields? Are you playing young characters who haven't completed their development yet? Are you playing kobolds as Sociotard suggests? Or goblins?

 

I'm just trying to follow the GM's reasoning here. Do they want you to play flawed characters who are weak or a bit dim or slightly socially inept but above average in other ways?

[薔薇語]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with playing low-powered characters' date=' but those guidelines do sound awfully low. You don't have enough points to buy all your Characteristics back up to 8.[/quote']

 

Not quite true. 4pts in every stat accounts to 28pts. So, in theory, a person in that scenario could buy all their stats to 9 and then still have 2pts left over. Thus making them slightly better than average person but still just below competent norm. Also 5pts in every stat accounts for 35pts. ^^

 

La Rose.

[Nolgroth]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

I ran a low powered game where the stats started at 5. It quickly instilled that combat would be very lethal, very quickly. I ended up relenting and raising the starting Body to 10. All in all, mechanically it was my favorite Hero game/mini-campaign to date. It was very easy to build opposition, since everybody started out with 5 (including Body for the NPCs). A couple of other things I did was change the Skill and Characteristics rolls from Char/5+9 to Char/4+8. It seemed to add just a wee bit of granularity into the skill rolls, though I think next time I might even do it as Char/3+8 for even more variation in the skill rolls.

 

I think I ended up giving the characters 125 or 150 points for character creation.

 

All in all, turned out to be a fun game ended prematurely by responsibilities outside of the game. When given the chance to move forward or start another game, I chose to start something else. Not because I didn't like the campaign, characters or mechanics, but just because I didn't want to push forward in the storyline that depended too much on the other characters.

 

I say go for it. As long as the GM makes the Everyman in his campaign the same as your characters (starting at 5), then it should be pretty fun. One problem would be if all of the bad guys were base 10. Then it is just the GM being a jacktard.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

Not quite true. 4pts in every stat accounts to 28pts. So' date=' in theory, a person in that scenario could buy all their stats to 9 and then still have 2pts left over. Thus making them slightly better than average person but still just below competent norm. Also 5pts in every stat accounts for 35pts. [/quote']

 

He's playing 5e, so CON, BODY, and EGO cost 2, and DEX costs 3. Buying everything up to 8 (including COM) costs 38 points.

[Nolgroth]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

He's playing 5e' date=' so CON, BODY, and EGO cost 2, and DEX costs 3. Buying everything up to 8 (including COM) costs 38 points.[/quote']OH good catch. In that case, Figureds would be less on average too. Going to make for some potentially crippled characters. I hope XP comes fast in this game. Otherwise the characters may not be able to outfight a brisk autumn breeze.

[runescience]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

He played in my game a few years ago. He has good intentions. He is steadfast saying that the average person in the world has stats between 6-10. So we are stuck with starting at stat -5- and adding in up to 30 points. If you add them one for one evenly, then you come up with all 7's in the non figured stats, with a couple of points left over for endurance and stun. Stats of 7? sigh

[ghost-angel]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

One thing I see happening is a lot of starting Skills will be 10- instead of 11-, and you'll probably see more specialization in skills with wider gaps in types of rolls.

[Nolgroth]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

Well to model "reality" a little better, I would agree with your friend. It tends to make your high scores really shine through. The flip side being that your characters really are Joe Normal in every other aspect. I think a few more points might make up the difference, as 30 points for Skills alone is pathetic. Add in powers too and you have almost nothing. As my old boss used to say, "It's impossible to make chicken salad out of chicken $#/@." I would lobby for a full 75+75 game or even a 100+50 point spread. Cutting down your base characteristics is already going to limit the heck out the characters, especially with the decrease in Figured Stats.

[薔薇語]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

Yeah, I'm with Nolgoth. I had an idea once of doing something like what your friend was may be setting up. The idea was to have my Players build truly normal characters and then, rather quickly in game, start pushing them into much more powerful (by comparison to their 'normal' selves) characters. But I wanted to start with normals because I wanted to inspire a sense of mortality and horror. Moving from that, I was going to move the campaign into a mystic setting (characters becoming lychans, mages, blessed, etc). I wonder if that may be what your GM is leading with (well, not my exact thing but something similar). If not, I would worry quite a bit about the focus of the game and how fun it would be to play.

 

La Rose.

[Darbor]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

My answer is the awful, it depends. What it depends on are the expectations of what your characters can do. It doesn't really help if the GM gives you NPC's that are balanced with your PC's. Your characters are still going to be weak and unskilled and fail a lot. If that sounds more like an interesting challenge than a downer then go for it. For me it would be a downer. I would do as Nolgroth suggested and lobby for more points. After all this is Hero System not Average System. There are other ways for the GM to throw interesting difficulties in your way. Despite your heroic abilities you could be poor and with little opportunity to get money or you could be in a social caste that has little to no political power, etc. I played one pretty interesting game where we were endlessly poor and politically weak but had skills and powers to allow us to do interesting things within that system.

[Markdoc]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

I'll go against the stream and say that in the hands of a good GM, this could be excellent fun. We've played a couple of Hero system campaigns where players started on base stat.s of 10 but only got 50 points to play with (25 base points/25 disad.s ... er complications). Great games! We've also played the D&D equivalents, where it was roll 3d6 for Stat.s and play 'em as they roll. I have a fondness for my old - and pretty useless - illusion-using mage Korlass the Grubby, that many much more powerful characters have not evoked, and the saga of the Brothers Snøtgøbblerson was appropriately legendary.*

 

I've never, ever bought into the idea that mo' points, yo mo bedda. It's perfectly possible to build a dull 250 point character and actually somewhat easier to build an interesting 50 pointer, since by definition, you are not going to cover all the bases. Your characters are going to have weak areas, and you'll need to work around that.

 

The only catch is that the GM has to give your character-strength appropriate adventures. At this level, you're going to be petty criminals, stout-hearted farmboys, hapless apprentice mages or spoiled but essentially useless princesses escaping a dire marriage, rather than Conan, Elric or Red Sonya. But ya know, playing an assistant pig-keeper on the trail of an oracular pig is not necessarily less fun than playing a bronze-thewed slayer of men and trampler of armies who's wandered into yet another ruin haunted by eldritch horrors.

 

*and their adventures started with a fight over sheep-grazing rights

 

cheers, Mark

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

I've never' date=' ever bought into the idea that mo' points, yo mo bedda. It's perfectly possible to build a dull 250 point character and actually somewhat easier to build an interesting 50 pointer, since by definition, you are not going to cover all the bases. Your characters are going to have weak areas, and you'll need to work around that.[/quote']

 

I'm in complete agreement. However, there's a line between low-powered characters and incompetent characters, and I think that the OP's description fell on the wrong side of it.

[Old Man]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

I've played at this level and had a blast. I recommend that all Hero gamers try it at least once if only for a session.

 

That said, the system can exhibit lots of granularity at this level. You have a lo-med-hi stat system where stats will be 5, 8, or 10. Jumps between DCs will seem pretty big, and there is no bell curve on 1d6k so damage can be really random. Be careful out there.

[Vondy]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

I'm with Markdoc on this one. I think it cuts too much to the quick. Of course, its subjective and if people are having fun you aren't doing it right. This just wouldn't be my cup of tea. On the other hand I did run a game with base 8 primary characteristics (ordinary joes) and 25 +25 for base/disads. It produced interesting characters and it made for a fun arc (it was a multi-session adventure rather than a campaign).

[Ice9]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

It's very low power compared to "standard" FH, but that's not inherently a problem. It seems like it'll be less "heroes saving kingdoms" and more WHFRPG-style "trying to survive in a deadly world where your greatest asset is a small but vicious dog", but that can be a fun game if everyone's on board with it.

 

I would say that in a setup like this, forget trying to be good at everything, or even adequate at everything. Pick a niche and specialize in it. Also, can you get anything else with your points, or only stats and skills? Because at very low point totals, followers (like the aforementioned small but vicious dog), perks (with great wealth comes great bodyguards), and powers (you can accomplish much with five points) are often the most bang for your buck.

[Ternaugh]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

I've had this idea for a campaign start bouncing around for a while now. The PCs are all kids, who happen to be out of the village when the invaders strike. None of them would be very powerful, but you might have the apprentice to the blacksmith being a bit stronger, or a farm kid who was good with training animals (and had an animal follower or two), an apprentice to the local herbalist or alchemist with access to a few low-level potions, and so on. The goal would be to avoid capture, and perhaps free their family members. I figured that it would make a good arc, and then I'd fast-forward to a few years later, when the characters would be grown up. That part of the campaign would involve "maturing" the characters by raising the base points (and disads/complications) based upon the events in the story arc.

 

My other goal was to design it so that the initial, low-powered arc was to be coupled with simplified rules, so that new players could learn the system by easing into it. Once the arc completed, the players should have enough familiarity with the system to play the more complicated characters.

 

JoeG

[Kraven Kor]

Re: base 5 point stats? problems with that?

 

It all depends on what the theme of the campaign is - it sounds painfully underpowered to me, but I like my heroes to be, well, heroic. 150 Points in 5E was painfully low to me, and I always hated starting at 1st level in D&D, where you could trip and end up unconscious!

 

But if you are starting as wimps, then working up to non-wimps, or facing only other wimps, or the point of the campaign is not the usual adventures of PC's, then it could work. I'd say at least give it a go and see what the GM has in store.