Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

[Epiphanis]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I bought the PDFs but not the books because I pretty much never buy hardcopies if there are PDFs, even if the PDF isn't cheaper; I value portability and storage space greatly over tangibility. But I do think the relatively small number of new characters was probably a significant factor in poor sales of the hardcopies. I hypothesize that most GMs modify stats anyway, so the redundancy of the fluff was not sufficiently offset by updating the crunch. I have absolutely nothing to back it up, but I suspect a compilation of new characters would sell better. Certainly I got more of a thrill reading Champions Beyond with its never-seen-before-content like Mordace and the Malvan gladiators.

[Steve]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I bought the pdf/book bundles for CV1 & 2 when they became available, and I still want to get CV3. As far as the Monster Manual comparison goes, I think CKC was a more popular buy because it was the first revision of classic CU villainy in a long time. A lot of players buy Monster Manuals to avoid surprises, but I don't think Hero players are the same.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Speaking just for myself, I bought the PDFs of the CV trilogy because I'm a completist and wanted the few new villains, and any updates to the old villains. I already own all the Fifth Edition villains compendia, containing most of the CV villains. I admit I felt no desire to put out significant money for color hardcover hardcopies just because they're 6E.

 

I actually was long concerned other veteran Champsfiles would feel as I did, and that that would impact sales.

 

I shared that concern - if the book feels like it's mostly reprinted material, I suspect a number of readers will shy away, especially if money is tight. I wonder whether Hero could recoup some costs with a .pdf of the new villains from the three books (or, alternatively, mini-pdf's with a master villain, villain team or a set of solo villains) priced on a basis that 50% to 2/3 of the book as a whole in this structure would cost as much as the full book.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well....guess I'm just gonna keep my fingers crossed and hope the book still sees a release at some point....and hit up Champions Beyond and Book of the Empress in the meantime.

[TotalerKrieg]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well like I said before, I like several others are new to Champions and don't have the vast array of books that everyone here seems to have access to, so we need these CV1-3 books, for those of you who have all your 5th ed. books, burn them and then you will see what I'm talking about as you will be in the same boat. ("Still on strike until CV3 is printed!")

[Steve]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

To tide me over until the release of the book, I picked up the HD character package for the trilogy. I'd buy the pdf, but I'm holding off on that option unless it's announced that the book will not be getting printed for sone reason. I really prefer picking up the bundles for a book.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

If I wasn't on year 3 of my unemployment sojurn I'd have bought them in a heartbeat. For the Hardcover color treatment. I still want them...are 1 and 2 still available? I'm hoping in the near future to be working again.

[phoenix240]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I guess I'm in something of a minority. I create most of my own villains and NPCs so character books are nice for inspiration and quick sheets to crib but not a requirement.

[brionl]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well like I said before' date=' I like several others are new to Champions and don't have the vast array of books that everyone here seems to have access to, so we need these CV1-3 books, for those of you who have all your 5th ed. books, burn them and then you will see what I'm talking about as you will be in the same boat. ("Still on strike until CV3 is printed!")[/quote']

 

It's not so much the vast array of books, but that most people prefer to build their own villains and adventures. So they don't sell well compared to other types of supplements, so there's not as much financial incentive for the company to rush them out. If you're really that desperate for villains, you can always buy the PDF and/or HD character pack.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

It's not so much the vast array of books' date=' but that most people prefer to build their own villains and adventures. So they don't sell well compared to other types of supplements, so there's not as much financial incentive for the company to rush them out. If you're really that desperate for villains, you can always buy the PDF and/or HD character pack.[/quote']

 

They promised me this book. They marketed it to me last year at about this time, and based on that marketing I bought the first two books for my bookshelf. If this one does not come out, I will have a gap in my collection. Part of their market is folks who buy the books for the sake of completeness, and they should recognize this. Why else did I, and I suspect others, buy 6th edition versions of books I already have where very little changed between editions?

 

The PDF is not the same thing as the book, and the HD packet has even less appeal, as there is no background and explanatory text included. Call me a Luddite or a bibliophile, but I still prefer books to screens.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I guess I'm in something of a minority. I create most of my own villains and NPCs so character books are nice for inspiration and quick sheets to crib but not a requirement.

 

me too. But I'd like to see the classics get the treatment they seem to have gotten here. Heck I've replaced the whole of the CU for my games but I still have a soft spot for many of these guys.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well one thing imo that is certain is that they need a new and better printer. Too many 6E titles are only avaliable in PDF. Almost the entire line of Hero system style books I cannot purchase because they are only in PDF at the moment. Champs beyond is barely two months old and you can once again only buy it as a PDF. Right now it's not only a mattter of delayed books. It's also a matter too much of their older 6E books not being avalaible in print. Which is never a good thing imo. It's not something new either. i just wonder what kind of contract they signed with the current printer that seems imo to force they to keep using them. At this point someting more concrete at least on this issue needs to be done beyond "were working on the printer issue". It's been almost a year. At least my copy of Star Hero arrived today and it's a beauty.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well one thing imo that is certain is that they need a new and better printer. Too many 6E titles are only avaliable in PDF. Almost the entire line of Hero system style books I cannot purchase because they are only in PDF at the moment. Champs beyond is barely two months old and you can once again only buy it as a PDF. Right now it's not only a mattter of delayed books. It's also a matter too much of their older 6E books not being avalaible in print. Which is never a good thing imo. It's not something new either. i just wonder what kind of contract they signed with the current printer that seems imo to force they to keep using them. At this point someting more concrete at least on this issue needs to be done beyond "were working on the printer issue". It's been almost a year. At least my copy of Star Hero arrived today and it's a beauty.

 

I think it's cash flow more than anything. The printers want to be paid up front for a print run, so the company has to commit large amounts of capital to getting their books printed. They can't always afford to do this. They have said as much on the boards, so I don't feel like I'm out on a limb here. I suspect that it would be very hard to find a printer that would be willing to extend credit.

 

With PDFs, they pay the designer once to set it up, and they just earn, as long as they can afford to host the files.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I would agree if they had not received some extra cash from the deal they made with Cryptic studios. So while they are not millionaires I doubt they are broke. If they are going to go ahead and release Book of the empress one assumes they have cash to get that printed. Whatever the reason it's not a good thing when I cannot buy the book in a format I want directly from the source. It's one thing to go to the lgs. As their distributors are not always relaible. When I cannot order directly from HG how exactly am I supposed to recommend people the system. The thing is it's never been this bad. During 5E you may have had a 2-3 tiles tempororly out of print never half or more of the inventory. Another problem for me at least is that I'm feeling pressured into buy books because who knows when and if they will be in print and who knws for how long. Once again imo not a good thing. I'm not saying fix it right now it is something that needs to be looked into asap. Eventually if they are not careful none of their stock will be avaliable in print. While I'm slowly switching to PDF it is not my preferred format for rpgs. If I cannot get the books I want in print it's less moeny I spend on HG products and not by choice.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I would agree if they had not received some extra cash from the deal they made with Cryptic studios. So while they are not millionaires I doubt they are broke.

 

If they want to reinvest those funds in printing, that's their choice. If they want to sock it away in a retirement account, that's also their choice. When DoJ announced the Cryptic deal would provide resources to produce books in glorious colour, I certainly didn't think that meant Hero would not be pricing those books to generate a profit after the costs of colour printing, or that if the sales didn't cover the costs of colour printing, they would still keep producing colour books at a loss.

 

If they are going to go ahead and release Book of the empress one assumes they have cash to get that printed. Whatever the reason it's not a good thing when I cannot buy the book in a format I want directly from the source.

 

Really? Where is my softcover 1 volume 6e in B&W (assuming that's my preferred format)? I do agree it's not a good thing if producing the book in my desired format would be profitable for the company. I don't think anyone at DoJ is asserting the delays are a good thing - but that they have to address the business realities as best they can.

 

It's one thing to go to the lgs. As their distributors are not always relaible. When I cannot order directly from HG how exactly am I supposed to recommend people the system. The thing is it's never been this bad. During 5E you may have had a 2-3 tiles tempororly out of print never half or more of the inventory.

 

If I were DoJ, I would be focused on getting the core books back in print, and I would prioritize that well above printing the third volume of a book whose predecessors have a less than stellar sales record.

 

Another problem for me at least is that I'm feeling pressured into buy books because who knows when and if they will be in print and who knws for how long. Once again imo not a good thing. I'm not saying fix it right now it is something that needs to be looked into asap. Eventually if they are not careful none of their stock will be avaliable in print. While I'm slowly switching to PDF it is not my preferred format for rpgs. If I cannot get the books I want in print it's less moeny I spend on HG products and not by choice.

 

I think it's a simple business reality that, at some point, the print run will sell through and a decision will be made not to reprint because the ongoing sales don't justify it. There are no guarantees that any book will stay in print for any defined period of time.

 

Hero's challenge is to set its priorities to maximize its return on the printing it can get done (whether the constraint is cash available, printing turnaround or what have you). Quite a while back, Hero indicated they intended to publish a genre book, a villains book, a pre-fab abilities/equipment book and a scenario book for every genre. This didn't prove profitable and they stopped doing it. I don't feel they owe me a Pulp Scenario book. I'd probably buy it (and our gamer who runs pulp undoubtedly would), but history indicates not enough people would buy it to justify its creation and printing. So Hero has to make a business decision.

 

If I had all the facts, and it was my money at risk, maybe I'd make the same decision, and maybe I'd make a different one. Certainly, this thread indicates there would be some sales of Vol 3, and I'm equally certain the fact there would be some sales factors into DoJ's decision making process. They've indicated they are committed to printing the book as soon as resources exist to do so, and that they must prioritize other printing due to business reality, making a release date uncertain, but hoped to be a matter of weeks. I don't see what more they can realistically be expected to do.

 

I'm sure if those wanting the book faster can identify a printer who can print it and float DoJ an interest-free loan to finance the print run (to be repaid as the books sell through), DoJ would be happy to accelerate the process.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

The thing is Hugh it's not just CV3 that is not avaliable. It's a good amount of their 6E material. While unhappy I have made my peace with CV3. Right now my main problem is that I cannot buy a lot of older 6E books directly from Hero. I was fortunate to get Champions Beyond today because they recieved their copes at my lgs yet even they were surpsied. Since CV2 they have recevied nothing newer than that from their distrubtors. I also bought Star Hero because I wanted it and mainly because who knows how long before that is still avalaible from them. I would at least like to know when the older 6E books will be reprinted. They should have at least an idea on when that will happen. If that is still unknown it is not a good thing. I also agree they should get at least the core back in print. In the end it is incredibly frustrating because we have no date for when and if the older 6E books will be reprinted. We need imo more than "as soon as possible". I love to give this company my money. Yet at the same time I just cannot wait forever either.

[Doc Quantum]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

My FLGS checks with his supplier every week for me but no joy so far on Champs Beyond or Star Hero.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

My FLGS checks with his supplier every week for me but no joy so far on Champs Beyond or Star Hero.

And you would probably get a more accurate status update if you spent the afternoon staring at a pile of dog poo. Distributors and suppliers LIE! They know jack about anything and they will make crap up when they don't know the answer.

 

NEVER trust anything that someone claims the distributor tells you, if you want an accurate description of what the status is for a Hero Games book, you come HERE and no where else.

 

I can't tell you how many times people around here have been told flat out WRONG things and have believed it hook line and sinker because "my FLGS's distributor said..."

 

TB

[Doc Quantum]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

And you would probably get a more accurate status update if you spent the afternoon staring at a pile of dog poo. Distributors and suppliers LIE! They know jack about anything and they will make crap up when they don't know the answer.

 

NEVER trust anything that someone claims the distributor tells you, if you want an accurate description of what the status is for a Hero Games book, you come HERE and no where else.

 

I can't tell you how many times people around here have been told flat out WRONG things and have believed it hook line and sinker because "my FLGS's distributor said..."

 

TB

 

 

Back in the good ol' days, my FLGS had a family-run distributor that had the books in the store the Friday after release almost without fail. Then the old man died and nobody in the family wanted to keep the business going. Now my FLGS is stuck with a comics/games distributor that uses its contract with the major comic book publishers as a license to screw over store owners and their customers.

[gojira]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Is Indie Press Revolution a distributor? Why is DOJ messing about with sketchy distributors if they have their own channel? I'm honestly curious, I thought IPR was going to eliminate at least some of this rigamarole.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

The thing is Hugh it's not just CV3 that is not avaliable. It's a good amount of their 6E material. While unhappy I have made my peace with CV3. Right now my main problem is that I cannot buy a lot of older 6E books directly from Hero. I was fortunate to get Champions Beyond today because they recieved their copes at my lgs yet even they were surpsied. Since CV2 they have recevied nothing newer than that from their distrubtors. I also bought Star Hero because I wanted it and mainly because who knows how long before that is still avalaible from them. I would at least like to know when the older 6E books will be reprinted. They should have at least an idea on when that will happen. If that is still unknown it is not a good thing. I also agree they should get at least the core back in print. In the end it is incredibly frustrating because we have no date for when and if the older 6E books will be reprinted. We need imo more than "as soon as possible". I love to give this company my money. Yet at the same time I just cannot wait forever either.

 

I'm sure DoJ would love to be able to give a precise schedule. If they knew the specific date on which each book would be released, I have no doubt they would post the schedule. In the real world, however, such prescience is not common. If they were to give a date, and some unpredictable issue or other caused them to miss it, then we're just back to complaints about how unrealiable they are. Nobody's happy about the sutuation, I'm sure. Griping about it isn't going to change the situation, though.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'm not "griping" for the sake of griping. I bring it up because I'm worried about HG as a whole. If none of use ever say anything why would they look into it or try to change it. In any case hopefully by the end of the year the situation on CV3 and lack of 6E books on print is resolved.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'm not "griping" for the sake of griping. I bring it up because I'm worried about HG as a whole. If none of use ever say anything why would they look into it or try to change it.

 

Because they know not shipping the books isn't good business? I don't think they're under any illusions in that regard. But they are constrained by the resources available to them.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

If none of use ever say anything why would they look into it or try to change it.

 

What, seriously?

 

It's your hobby, it's their livelihood. If it makes financial sense for them to do something, they'll do it, and if it doesn't, they won't. You're not going to talk them into to doing something if they feel they can't afford to.

 

All you're doing is making yourself feel like you're doing something.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Ouch PamelaIsley, while I understand your frustration and respect your opinion I chose to continue to support my favorite game system and company despite the fact I do not get to play often. I am deeply concerned about the delays.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

QM