Invincible

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

So, if I'm understanding things correctly, Mark is a little behind the curve compared to typical Vultrimites but is catching up quickly and has the potential to exceed their limits?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

He might actually be tougher than some adult Viltrumites, but it seems he's not quite as strong as them yet. Or at least he doesn't use his strength in quite as refined/deadly ways. So it's hard to judge.

 

Nolan told Mark he had to constantly push himself if he wanted to get stronger and faster, advice Mark has taken to heart with noticeable results. It's alluded to that he's very likely going to surpass other Viltrumites. If not soon, then maybe in the next hundred years or so. He's come a very long way in a relatively short amount though.

 

Given the Viltrumite culture of eugenics, I'm fully expecting Anissa (or maybe Thula) will end up trying to seduce him. But at this point, all the surviving Viltrumites except Nolan and Thragg are probably at least a little scared of him, considering the things he's done. The mention of one such deed halted an entire battle, as the Viltrumites were in stunned disbelief.

[RexMundi]

Re: Invincible

 

If you can make Thragg pause for even a moment of consideration....you got some potential. Do believe he's the only Viltrumite, that can one shot a Viltrumite.

 

~Rex....some good stuff on Writeups.org, but you need to be familiar with the MEGS (Either DC Heroes III or Blood of Heroes) system to convert (Though some are in the new MnM/DC game write ups now, even Easier to convert). Great for scale though even if the write ups do leave out a few things they get the physicality right.

[Christopher]

Re: Invincible

 

He's come a very long way in a relatively short amount though.

I do not know this series, but that sound like the typical "Son Goku/Kurosaki Ichigo" concept:

At an early point one enemy is just badass superior. Then he become an equal enemy, maybe even "just barely managed to defeat him" enemy. But then they are surpassed and left behind in his dust, as he has to engage "even stronger" enemys.

 

That goes on until you reach the point at wich the character has do be "reset"/seriously damaged to bring him down a little bit (ususally the point where he can destroy a mountain or planet by sneezing to hard) or take him out and leave the spotlight to his weaker friends/sprouses.

[RexMundi]

Re: Invincible

 

The series is very "Son Goku/Kurosaki Ichigo"-ish.... It just removes the "Blasty Go Boom!" aspects and sticks with raw physicality (and some heightened senses), then tops it all off with the awesome Viltrumite Mustache. Said format has proven very popular and successful in the Manga fields hence why it works well with Invincible. Besides it's an Image comic. EVERYONE in Image is of that mold.

 

~Rex

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Invincible

 

The Glas cannon/Invulnerable Man/Artfull Dodger problem. In comic books it is okay to let them have just the STR/damge/durability needed one time and have them lack it another. But in Hero games with points and the general "writer (GM) does not controll actions of characters (PC)", this can't be done as absolute or completely.

 

 

Actually, Hero does not do either. There is even some passage in the Champions 6E or APG referring exactly the "lift building" problem. And generally, since we talk about playing superheroes, this will not be a problem anymore than it is in the comicbooks. Unless we are talking baout exceptionally realistic campaings, wich certanly does not fit's well with Superpowered heroes.

 

I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, or just adding color commentary.

[Christopher]

Re: Invincible

 

I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me' date=' or just adding color commentary.[/quote']

A little bit from everything.

Agreeing on the general Problem with "Comicbook powerlevels" and how useless they are to rebuild a character.

Disagreeing that Hero cares much more for the durabilty of lifted objects than comicbooks do (in fact it is a semi rule that that is unimportant).

And overall addign more color/examples.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Invincible

 

A little bit from everything.

Agreeing on the general Problem with "Comicbook powerlevels" and how useless they are to rebuild a character.

Disagreeing that Hero cares much more for the durabilty of lifted objects than comicbooks do (in fact it is a semi rule that that is unimportant).

And overall addign more color/examples.

 

I don't recall saying that the Hero System cares much more for the durabilty of lifted objects than comic books do.

 

The point of my post was to caution against basing too much of a conversion / modeling of a fictional setting in HERO terms around displayed feats of strength in the source material translated into high STR stats via the Strength chart and then skewing other aspects to compensate /synch up with the inflated numbers.

[casualplayer]

Re: Invincible

 

The comic Invincible pretty clearly subscribes to the Megascale STR style of gaming too, where someone otherwise demonstrating around a 60-75 STR can still fling someone into space, punch someone through a skyscraper or throw a bag of garbage across the Atlantic. Kewl physics.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

I do not know this series, but that sound like the typical "Son Goku/Kurosaki Ichigo" concept:

At an early point one enemy is just badass superior. Then he become an equal enemy, maybe even "just barely managed to defeat him" enemy. But then they are surpassed and left behind in his dust, as he has to engage "even stronger" enemys.

 

That goes on until you reach the point at wich the character has do be "reset"/seriously damaged to bring him down a little bit (ususally the point where he can destroy a mountain or planet by sneezing to hard) or take him out and leave the spotlight to his weaker friends/sprouses.

 

I think Killer Shrike was just advising against obsessing over capturing every panel of a character's depiction when trying to write them up in game terms.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

Barebones "typical" Viltrumite. Mainly a place keeper for suggestions and observations.

 

 

Typical Viltrumite

 

 

Player:

 

 

Val Char Cost

70 STR 60

20 DEX 30

20 CON 20

20 BODY 20

10 INT 0

15 EGO 10

15 PRE 5

10 COM 0

 

 

25 PD 11

25 ED 21

5 SPD 20

18 REC 0

60 END 10

75 STUN 10

 

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

14" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 217

 

 

Cost Power

20 Damage Resistance (20 PD/20 ED)

36 Life Support (Eating: Character only has to eat once per week; Extended Breathing: 1 END per 20 Minutes; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: 200 Years; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week)

97 Flight 30", x4 Noncombat, Usable Underwater (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (97 Active Points)

13 Flight 3", MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (13 Active Points)

45 Rending Strength: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 3d6 (6d6 w/STR)

Powers Cost: 211

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 428

 

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 228

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Invincible

 

I think more attention needs to be paid to the super-speed reflexes of the characters.

 

It was mentioned that Omni-Man was able to take out the Guardians of the Globes' version of Flash. It seems like any decent CU speedster would have no problem of escaping from someone with this particular flying/brick power set.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Invincible

 

The bolded part should require a skill roll :-D

 

Or Luck...

[Enforcer84]

Re: Invincible

 

I think more attention needs to be paid to the super-speed reflexes of the characters.

 

It was mentioned that Omni-Man was able to take out the Guardians of the Globes' version of Flash. It seems like any decent CU speedster would have no problem of escaping from someone with this particular flying/brick power set.

 

Hmm. Well he caught him off guard. And it fit the story. I agree and I tend to throw that kind of stuff into my write ups but you're looking at 1500+ pts for my Supes, so in the interest of brevity, how often has Mark or his dad been able to do this?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

Like I said' date=' I'm pretty sure they can reattach lost limbs, but not actually regrow them.[/quote']

 

Finally looked it up.

 

In issue 66, they show that Conquests arm was devoured by the savage and indestructible Rognarr, though it was after he was weakened by the Scourge Virus (but they were able to tear up full strength Viltrumites anyhow).

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

As I recall Mark's father mostly took them by surprise, either in a total blindside or the old "My old friend Omni-man! He-URRRRK!" routine. I wrote up the typical Viltrumite up under the assumption that Omni-man is a more towards the high end, not a standard issue Viltrumite. He seems old and experienced. It's also scaled for our Champions setting where that speed is very high for someone that tough and that does that much damage. The highest speed in setting a 6 (or a limited 7 I'll haver to check). Most characters are 4 or 5, a few are 3.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Invincible

 

He actually seemed to use the Superspeed attack. Killing most of them in one panel. Only the Immortal survived long enough to say, "Oh, it's you."

 

It was...if I may...a pretty piss poor bit of storytelling. But I forgave it.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

He actually seemed to use the Superspeed attack. Killing most of them in one panel. Only the Immortal survived long enough to say, "Oh, it's you."

 

 

It was...if I may...a pretty piss poor bit of storytelling. But I forgave it.

 

 

Huh, I thought a couple of them got a chance to at least know who killed them. They were jobbed even harder than I thought. I agree it did seem like something that would have been better served happening off screen, IMO.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

A bit more fleshed out. I considered giving them some form of Enraged. In the fights so far Viltriumites seem to get -really- worked up in battle particularly when the blood starts to flow. Even Mark seems to lose it a little from time to time but OTOH, it hasn't really been a disadvantage that I've seen (they can control themselves enough to not kill someone they're trying to keep alive and such) so I left it out. I didn't include Casual Killer for similar reasons.

 

 

Typical Viltrumite

 

 

Player:

 

 

Val Char Cost

70 STR 60

20 DEX 30

20 CON 20

20 BODY 20

10 INT 0

15 EGO 10

15 PRE 5

10 COM 0

 

 

25 PD 11

25 ED 21

5 SPD 20

18 REC 0

60 END 10

75 STUN 10

 

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

14" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 217

 

 

Cost Power

20 Damage Resistance (20 PD/20 ED)

36 Life Support (Eating: Character only has to eat once per week; Extended Breathing: 1 END per 20 Minutes; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: 200 Years; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week)

97 Villtrium Flight: Multipower, 97-point reserve

10u 1) Flight 30", x4 Noncombat, Usable Underwater (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (97 Active Points)

1u 2) Flight 3", MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (13 Active Points)

2u 3) Faster-Than-Light Travel (2 Light Years/week) (24 Active Points)

56 Rending Strength: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 3d6 (6d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (56 Active Points)

2 Healing Factor: Regeneration: 1 Body a week (10 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Week, -4 1/2)

12 Overconfident experienced warriors: +15 EGO (30 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to Defend against Presence Attacks based on Fear; -1 1/2)

Powers Cost: 236

 

 

 

 

Cost Skill

2 AK: The Viltrium Empire 11-

2 KS: Races of the Galaxy 11-

5 Rapid Attack (HTH)

3 Stealth 13-

3 Tactics 11-

Skills Cost: 15

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 468

 

 

Pts. Disadvantage

5 Social Limitation: Subject to Orders (Occasionally; Minor)

10 Hunted: The Viltrium Empire 11- (Mo Pow; Watching)

10 Hunted: Enemies of the Empire 8- (Less Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)

15 Psychological Limitation: Violent meglomaniacs, driven to conquer and rule (Common; Strong)

10 Psychological Limitation: Respects only power and physical might (Uncommon; Strong)

Disadvantage Points: 50

Base Points: 250

Experience Required: 168

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

I think more attention needs to be paid to the super-speed reflexes of the characters.

 

It was mentioned that Omni-Man was able to take out the Guardians of the Globes' version of Flash. It seems like any decent CU speedster would have no problem of escaping from someone with this particular flying/brick power set.

 

Viltrumites don't tend to dodge anything, even when thy know it's going to hurt. They get slugged by other bricks that lesser mortal speedsters would run circles around. Rather typical Superman style of fighting. So, while they are demonstrably capable of a fair variety of Speedster Stunts, they don't normally exhibit the feats of super human reflexes that we most associate with pure speedsters.

 

It might be best to reflect this fact with some Nonpersistat/Cost END super speed abilities (+DEX, +SPD, +CV, etc) and let the rest boil down to Power Skill/MP/VPP tricks.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Invincible

 

In an alien warrior race head-to-head, gotta give the edge to the Saiyans. The Viltrumites sent an adult to Earth to subjugate it. The Saiyans sent a baby.

[RexMundi]

Re: Invincible

 

A Baby that turns into a giant nigh unstoppable uber destructive monkey when the Moon shines full and the Monkey Bane blooms......

 

Though by these stats. Invincible wins any fight against a saiyan not running around in an alternate state.

 

http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?cat=Homemade%20characters&name=Invincible&note=&id=2833

 

http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?id=2593

 

~Rex

[megaplayboy]

Re: Invincible

 

A Baby that turns into a giant nigh unstoppable uber destructive monkey when the Moon shines full and the Monkey Bane blooms......

 

Though by these stats. Invincible wins any fight against a saiyan not running around in an alternate state.

 

http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?cat=Homemade%20characters&name=Invincible&note=&id=2833

 

http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?id=2593

 

~Rex

 

Of course, that writeup is for Goku at the very beginning of DBZ...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

A bit more fleshed out. I considered giving them some form of Enraged. In the fights so far Viltriumites seem to get -really- worked up in battle particularly when the blood starts to flow. Even Mark seems to lose it a little from time to time but OTOH' date=' it hasn't really been a disadvantage that I've seen (they can control themselves enough to not kill someone they're trying to keep alive and such) so I left it out.[/quote']

 

I'd say Enraged is probably still appropriate. Not a full on Berserk, but there are three times when Mark starts fighting and doesn't stop until his opponent isn't moving anymore.

 

The first hint Omni-man is "evil" is way back in Issue #3 when him and Mark are fighting off the first Flaxan invasion. They trigger Nolan's Enraged and he nearly loses it in front of his son. At this point, Omni-man was still playing the boyscout.

 

36 Life Support (Eating: Character only has to eat once per week; Extended Breathing: 1 END per 20 Minutes; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: 200 Years; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per week)

 

Extended Breathing probably isn't quite right there, since they don't generally seem to suffer the ill effects of holding their breath. Might be better to build it as Self Contained Breathing with 1 Recoverable charges lasting X amount of time.

 

Only Oliver and Mark had problems where they needed to catch their breath the first few times they were in space, but they are the youngest and most inexperienced Viltrumites we have ever seen. They both learned to deal with it quickly.

 

Also, Viltrumites measure their life spans in centuries, if not millennia. Nolan is at least 1000 years old. I believe he made reference to it one time while talking to Debbie, but even without that comment he's revealed many of his achievements for the empire were hundreds of years in the past.

 

In fact, Thaedus remembers the Viltrum from it's golden age. He was there before the Viltrumites became a war like people, he survived the Scourge Virus, created the Coalition of Planets and, while he generally looks like an elderly human somewhere between 70-110, he clearly shows no signs of weakness for his advanced years.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

You know, I've been posting on this thread so much, I think I may just end up doing a writeup of Invincible and/or Omni-man.

 

I wound up rereading several issues over the weekend anyhow...