Invincible

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

Here's Brickhouse. She more in line with "typical" power levels in the game.

 

 

Brickhouse

 

Player:

 

Val Char Cost

60 STR 50

18 DEX 24

35 CON 50

14 BODY 8

10 INT 0

15 EGO 10

18 PRE 8

18 COM 4

 

 

30 PD 18

30 ED 23

4 SPD 12

20 REC 2

70 END 0

65 STUN 3

 

 

9" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

22" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 212

 

 

Cost Power

15 Incredibly Tough: Damage Resistance (15 PD/15 ED)

6 Long Reach: Stretching 1", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (7 Active Points); no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4)

4 Heavier than most: Knockback Resistance -2"

 

30 Multipower, 30-point reserve

1u 1) Powerful Legs Leaping +10" (22" forward, 11" upward), MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (15 Active Points)

1u 2) Long Powerful Legs: Running +3" (9" total) (6 Active Points)

1u 3) Seismic Stomp: Explosion (+1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of Strength (30 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (x2 Endurance Cost; -1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only effects targets touching ground; -1/4)

 

9 Surprisingly Agile/Bracihating: Flight 10" (20 Active Points); Must Land At The End Of Each Phase (-1/2), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (required appropriate enviornment and may cause damage to surroundings; -1/4)

 

8 Firm Grip: Clinging (normal STR), Limited Power Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (causes some damage to the surface; +0) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (No Knockback resistance; -1/4)

 

8 Adaptive Detenses: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% (15 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Must be struck by power first; -1/2), Requires A CON Roll (-1/4)

 

8 Adaptive Detenses: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% (15 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Must be struck by power first; -1/2), Requires A CON Roll (-1/4)

 

33 Regeneration: Healing 4 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

 

70 Adaptive Body: Variable Power Pool, 50 base + 20 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (100 Active Points); Character Has No Choice Regarding When Or How Powers Change (-1), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only to "adapt" to exotic situations, enviornmens and attacks; -1/2)

Powers Cost: 194

 

Cost Skill

3 Acrobatics 13-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Combat Driving 13-

3 Bugging 11-

5 Concealment 12-

3 Contortionist 13-

1 High Society 8-

2 KS: Corporate Alarms and security systems 11-

2 KS: safe cracking 11-

3 Security Systems 11-

3 Shadowing 11-

3 Stealth 13-

10 +2 with HTH Combat

Skills Cost: 44

 

Total Character Cost: 450

 

Pts. Disadvantage

15 Distinctive Features: Very big and tall (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

5 Physical Limitation: Physical size (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)

15 Hunted: Creator 8- (Mo Pow, Capture)

10 Hunted: Viper 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)

10 Vulnerability: 2 x Effect Physical Transformation attacks (Uncommon)

10 Social Limitation: Dark Secret: Former criminal (Occasionally, Major)

10 Psychological Limitation: Old Habits die hard, still thinks a little like a theif and a crook but wants to change her ways (Common, Moderate)

15 Psychological Limitation: Show off, likes to trash talk and thinks she's invulnerable (Very Common, Moderate)

10 Psychological Limitation: Can't resist a physical challenge (Uncommon, Strong)

Disadvantage Points: 100

Base Points: 350

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Christopher]

Re: Invincible

 

[...]but no one really wants to see her killed particularly if its a "Worf".

I think the only way she could be endagered by a certain Lt. Comander form Star Trek is, if she held or applied to the position of Klingon Chancelor. After all, he has his reputation as "chancelor maker" to uphold.

 

Or what did you mean with "its a Worf"?

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

I think the only way she could be endagered by a certain Lt. Comander form Star Trek is, if she held or applied to the position of Klingon Chancelor. After all, he has his reputation as "chancelor maker" to uphold.

 

Or what did you mean with "its a Worf"?

 

A "Worf" or being "Worfed" is when a powerful character is killed or severely injured usually with contemptuous ease just to demonstrate how powerful and dangerous the latest villain is. Bit of group slang though I think its seen wider use. Sorry.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Invincible

 

I think the only way she could be endagered by a certain Lt. Comander form Star Trek is, if she held or applied to the position of Klingon Chancelor. After all, he has his reputation as "chancelor maker" to uphold.

 

Or what did you mean with "its a Worf"?

 

 

From: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

 

The Worf Effect

Ladies and gentlemen, the Klingon warrior.

 

 

"He's the guy who's here to act tough so new characters can wreck him when they're introduced thus proving to the rest of us how amazing they are! Like Wolverine or Worf."

— Red Mage, 8-Bit Theater

 

When the Monster of the Week or the Big Bad shows up, it invariably picks up the toughest character among the heroes and hurls him across the room (or otherwise takes him out in one blow) in order to demonstrate just how Big and Bad it really is. Named for the tendency in Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine for hostile creatures to do that very thing to Worf.

 

When this sort of thing keeps happening to the same allegedly "badass" character in episode after episode, to the point that more of their fights end with them in a crumbled heap than not, it deflates their reputation for badassery. Especially if, despite mounting evidence to the contrary, the series still presents the character as a credible opponent, rendering things downright farcical. However, the Worf in question usually builds up his reputation again by mowing down countless armies of Red Shirts and Mooks.

 

Also known as "jobbing" in certain circles, although jobbing usually refers to a character who loses many fights in order to make the hero appear stronger by contrast (See: Al Snow, Perry Saturn post-ECW, Triple H for about a year and a half after the Curtain Call or the Washington Generals). It usually affects whatever team member is brash and headstrong.

 

When this gets done too many times on an Action Girl, the result is often a Faux Action Girl.

 

When done by an already known villain, it may be used to try to counter-act Villain Decay.

 

The Law Of Conservation Of Detail can be responsible for this. The Big Guy might dispatch ordinary villains all the time, but this isn't shown to the viewer because it's business as usual and doesn't make for interesting storytelling.

 

On the analytical side of things, it can be difficult to portray someone as being strong yet outclassed. If they give the villain too good of a fight, it makes the villain not look quite as powerful. If they give too poor of a showing, then they end up getting a trope named after them. Sometimes the balance can be accomplished, usually resulting in Worf Effect Survivor.

 

See also Worf Had The Flu, The Worf Barrage, and Hero Killer who exists solely to invoke this trope at all times.

 

Contrast Knight Of Cerebus, a villain who exists primarily for the purpose of killing off a hero for the first time.

 

Compare Curb-Stomp Battle, Deus Exit Machina, Badass in Distress and Red Shirt. Can be averted if the character is given a secondary role and only takes up the role of fighter on occasion. Compare also with Conservation of Ninjutsu for when an army of Worfs (or ninjas) get killed by one guy just to prove how strong that one guy is. Contrast also with Big Guy Fatality Syndrome , in which the tough guy sacrifices himself in order to save the party.

 

See also The World's Expert on Getting Killed, for when someone who's built up to be a specialist against a certain threat gets killed easily by that very threat.

 

Note: No one fight or loss can invoke this effect. It must be a series of losses, not a unique event. This also does not apply to losses during dramatic final confrontations.

[Lucius]

Re: Invincible

 

I'm not entirely sure how you would even write that up....

 

For a male: Transform, female into gravid female

 

For a female: Duplication

 

I could demonstrate by writing up the actual powers I suppose....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not? chromosome

[Enforcer84]

Re: Invincible

 

Here's the most powerful (and semi retired) PC in our collective campaign for comparison

 

 

Enforcer84 would be so proud

(He's the board specialist at making 1000+ point homage characters like that)

Power Girl

Mary Marvel

 

I am. By the way is this the Artist Chris Bayliss?

Always liked his work.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

I am. By the way is this the Artist Chris Bayliss?

Always liked his work.

 

Thank you!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Invincible

 

Here is the original Apex discussion thread started by Killer Shrike and the version of the character posted on his website.

I'm guessing that the Champions Universe Empyreans have a lot in common with Viltrumites from the Invincible universe.

 

Apex

 

There's two versions given, with HDC files. Fun character.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

On thing that going to be harder to model in Hero is the Body damage (and death overall) is more common in this setting that Champions mechanics allows for. You'd have use some pretty high AP killing attacks to simulate some of this stuff or assume high damage rolls.

[Christopher]

Re: Invincible

 

On thing that going to be harder to model in Hero is the Body damage (and death overall) is more common in this setting that Champions mechanics allows for. You'd have use some pretty high AP killing attacks to simulate some of this stuff or assume high damage rolls.

Well, in this thread about missing negative effects for negative HP (or general HP loss) there were some ways discussed to make it "more lethal/dangerous" with the existing optional rules:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/85855-Game-Effects-of-Dying

 

Especially Killer Shrike links to a page about that in this post:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/85855-Game-Effects-of-Dying?p=2184283#post2184283

[Enforcer84]

Re: Invincible

 

On thing that going to be harder to model in Hero is the Body damage (and death overall) is more common in this setting that Champions mechanics allows for. You'd have use some pretty high AP killing attacks to simulate some of this stuff or assume high damage rolls.

 

You could cap defenses (using Damage Reduction over straight defenses - or Damage Negation for 6e).

[Enforcer84]

Re: Invincible

 

Oh! hey I saw the handbook for the Invincible characters mentioned is that still available? Anyone know the title? I'd kind of dig that.

[RexMundi]

Re: Invincible

 

http://www.comicvine.com/invincible/29-5210/

 

Pretty much everything needed to write up Invincible. Not very complicated unless you want to get silly with a pile of Brick Tricks. Fairly Basic FIST build though granted on the higher end of a few things.

 

~Rex

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

http://www.comicvine.com/invincible/29-5210/

 

Pretty much everything needed to write up Invincible. Not very complicated unless you want to get silly with a pile of Brick Tricks. Fairly Basic FIST build though granted on the higher end of a few things.

 

~Rex

 

 

FIST=Flight Invulnerability, Strength, ?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Invincible

 

Well, in this thread about missing negative effects for negative HP (or general HP loss) there were some ways discussed to make it "more lethal/dangerous" with the existing optional rules:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/85855-Game-Effects-of-Dying

 

Especially Killer Shrike links to a page about that in this post:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/85855-Game-Effects-of-Dying?p=2184283#post2184283

 

Direct link:

 

Increased Lethality Options

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Invincible

 

FIST=Flight Invulnerability' date=' Strength, ?[/quote']

 

Federation of Interstate Truckers?

[RexMundi]

Re: Invincible

 

FIST=Flight Invulnerability' date=' Strength, ?[/quote']

 

Flying Invulnerable Super Strong (w/) Tricks (In the case of Invincible or any other Viltrumite, the Rend trick comes to mind)....

 

Pretty simple character.

 

~Rex

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

On thing that going to be harder to model in Hero is the Body damage (and death overall) is more common in this setting that Champions mechanics allows for. You'd have use some pretty high AP killing attacks to simulate some of this stuff or assume high damage rolls.

 

Well, we are talking about rather powerful supers, so high AP powers are kinda par for the course...

 

Omni-man/Nolan killed all of the original Guardians of the Globe effortlessly, and each of them was an analogue to an existing super: Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern and Martial Manhunter. Only the retired Black Sampson and the regenerating Immortal (something of a Wolverine analogue) ultimately survived.

 

So lets not kid ourselves here: one of Image's Superman clones took out their whole JLA single handed. It usually takes just one Viltrumite to enslave whole worlds and less than a dozen of them are able to fight against a resistance that comprises hundreds of aliens races with technology far more advanced than anything on Earth. A teenage half-Viltrumite (remember, they get progressively stronger and tougher with age) just got hit with a blast that arguably had more than 5 times the destructive power of the bomb we dropped on Nagasaki and he walked away pretty much fine.

 

So Viltrumites are supposed to be crazy scary powerful within the context of their universe. Not sure if you actually want to simulate that sort of thing in the game or if you want somethign a bit more toned down. Then again, looking at Free Sprite, the OP already has characters in the world that can throw around 30+ dice of damage, so this may not be too potent after all

 

Now, I don't have all the issues in front of me so this is all rough estimates from memory. If I were doing this, I'd probably review the recent issues of the Viltrumite War arc to nail down some more specifics, as that's where you really see them all cut loose on each other. So, off the top of my head:

 

Irresistible Force: 13d6 HKA (or maybe 4d6+1 HKA, AVAD, Does Body)

 

That should do the trick. 195 AP either way, so it just comes down to how many dice you want to roll. Can fiddle around with various degrees of AP and Penetrating as well, obviously.

 

Mind you, the above is assuming Mark only has a STR of 75. That lets him bench press over 400 Tons, which I believe we have actually seen him do at one point (was trying to find the exact issue the other night, but saw that number bandied about while goggling something else). However, that would have been early on in his career and he's gotten stronger since then so you could possibly use less dice of HKA. That many dice is also assuming you build typical Viltrumites with around 40rPD and 20 BODY (like Free Spirit). This also doesn't factor in things like Haymakers or the rather messy Move Throughs Viltrumites use either, which given their high meters of Flight could allow you to further reduce the dice involved.

 

But frankly, only Grand Regent Thragg has consistently demonstrated the sort of ridiculous power that lets him kill other Viltrumites with almost casual ease. He's the genetic pinnacle of the Viltrumite race, raised since birth to be the greatest warrior amongst them with hundreds (thousands?) of years of combat experience.

 

With lesser members of the race, it's a bit different. It's usually quite a throw down when Viltrumites fight each other or foes of comparable toughness. Omni-man and Conquest seem to both be towards the higher end of the power scale and could just about one hit kill nearly anything on Earth. But super aliens like Alan, Battle Beast or other Viltumites gave them at least some pause (bloody though those battles may have been). If I recall, even when Enraged Omni-man only managed to cripple one of the Viltrumites that was trying to kill him, Mark and Oliver. That would have been a kill shot against any lesser foe for sure though. As I said, Viltrumites are insanely tough and have a knack for not dying (or at least resurrecting).

 

But I'm sure some of Earth's other tough bricks, like Brit, Savage Dragon and Bulletproof would still give them more challenge than the original Guardians of the Globe did...

 

If this was a campaign starting from the ground up, I might approach things very differently. In that case, you might alter the way that the various character's defenses are built to allow more body to leak through on lower dice attacks. There's a ton of ways to get that effect, but not sure if this is worth doing to retrofit a new menace in...

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

Well, we are talking about rather powerful supers, so high AP powers are kinda par for the course...

 

Omni-man/Nolan killed all of the original Guardians of the Globe effortlessly, and each of them was an analogue to an existing super: Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern and Martial Manhunter. Only the retired Black Sampson and the regenerating Immortal (something of a Wolverine analogue) ultimately survived.

 

So lets not kid ourselves here: one of Image's Superman clones took out their whole JLA single handed. It usually takes just one Viltrumite to enslave whole worlds and less than a dozen of them are able to fight against a resistance that comprises hundreds of aliens races with technology far more advanced than anything on Earth. A teenage half-Viltrumite (remember, they get progressively stronger and tougher with age) just got hit with a blast that arguably had more than 5 times the destructive power of the bomb we dropped on Nagasaki and he walked away pretty much fine.

 

So Viltrumites are supposed to be crazy scary powerful within the context of their universe. Not sure if you actually want to simulate that sort of thing in the game or if you want somethign a bit more toned down. Then again, looking at Free Sprite, the OP already has characters in the world that can throw around 30+ dice of damage, so this may not be too potent after all

 

Now, I don't have all the issues in front of me so this is all rough estimates from memory. If I were doing this, I'd probably review the recent issues of the Viltrumite War arc to nail down some more specifics, as that's where you really see them all cut loose on each other. So, off the top of my head:

 

Irresistible Force: 13d6 HKA (or maybe 4d6+1 HKA, AVAD, Does Body)

 

That should do the trick. 195 AP either way, so it just comes down to how many dice you want to roll. Can fiddle around with various degrees of AP and Penetrating as well, obviously.

 

Mind you, the above is assuming Mark only has a STR of 75. That lets him bench press over 400 Tons, which I believe we have actually seen him do at one point (was trying to find the exact issue the other night, but saw that number bandied about while goggling something else). However, that would have been early on in his career and he's gotten stronger since then so you could possibly use less dice of HKA. That many dice is also assuming you build typical Viltrumites with around 40rPD and 20 BODY (like Free Spirit). This also doesn't factor in things like Haymakers or the rather messy Move Throughs Viltrumites use either, which given their high meters of Flight could allow you to further reduce the dice involved.

 

But frankly, only Grand Regent Thragg has consistently demonstrated the sort of ridiculous power that lets him kill other Viltrumites with almost casual ease. He's the genetic pinnacle of the Viltrumite race, raised since birth to be the greatest warrior amongst them with hundreds (thousands?) of years of combat experience.

 

With lesser members of the race, it's a bit different. It's usually quite a throw down when Viltrumites fight each other or foes of comparable toughness. Omni-man and Conquest seem to both be towards the higher end of the power scale and could just about one hit kill nearly anything on Earth. But super aliens like Alan, Battle Beast or other Viltumites gave them at least some pause (bloody though those battles may have been). If I recall, even when Enraged Omni-man only managed to cripple one of the Viltrumites that was trying to kill him, Mark and Oliver. That would have been a kill shot against any lesser foe for sure though. As I said, Viltrumites are insanely tough and have a knack for not dying (or at least resurrecting).

 

But I'm sure some of Earth's other tough bricks, like Brit, Savage Dragon and Bulletproof would still give them more challenge than the original Guardians of the Globe did...

 

If this was a campaign starting from the ground up, I might approach things very differently. In that case, you might alter the way that the various character's defenses are built to allow more body to leak through on lower dice attacks. There's a ton of ways to get that effect, but not sure if this is worth doing to retrofit a new menace in...

 

Thank you for the advice. It's given me some things to think about. I might have to reconsider some of my ideas. Posting Free Spirit has probably skewed some impression of our games. She's the -top- of the heap and more a flagship/legacy item than a PC and the creation of someone that enjoys higher power games than most of us.

 

So scaling will be a definite consideration if I go through with this idea.

 

Again, thanks, Bloodstone and everyone else that's posted.

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

Flying Invulnerable Super Strong (w/) Tricks (In the case of Invincible or any other Viltrumite, the Rend trick comes to mind)....

 

Pretty simple character.

 

~Rex

 

Oh, okay, thanks.

[Jagged]

Re: Invincible

 

I was always a little curious about Conquest's arm. I got the impression that Viltrumites do regenerate, so I think his injury must have been something unusual. I don't think Robert Kirkman ever explained but did once comment, "A Viltrumite with a cybernetic arm! What's that about?"

[casualplayer]

Re: Invincible

 

Invincible has a heck of a PRE or positive reputation also. The villain in the last issue gave up without firing a shot when he saw who caught him.

 

He's able to survive a move-through on a planet, and also able to make a successful move-through on a planet. Heaps of speed and resilience, but then again when Viltrumites tussle the blood starts to fly. Maybe Damage Reduction Only versus Non-Viltrumites for a crazy meta-solution.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Invincible

 

Based on the ocean liner feat and subsequent stuff, I'd put his STR in the 110-130 range, probably 120, and give him 50-60 defenses with half reduction. His KA should be (w/STR) in the ballpark of 120-150 active points, probably with APx2 and/or Pen x2(with both, you could have 4d6 KA at 30DC/150AP). Probably a brick tricks MP or even VPP.

Thragg should be likely in the 150-180 STR range, with 70-80 defenses and half reduction(tough enough to shrug off a direct shot from Invincible). He'd be tough enough to kill most of the master villains in the 6th ed. CU(with the obvious exception of the cosmic baddies).

[Bloodstone]

Re: Invincible

 

Invincible has a heck of a PRE or positive reputation also. The villain in the last issue gave up without firing a shot when he saw who caught him.

 

That jobber had no chance and he knew it. It would be like Stilt-Man trying to take on the Silver Surfer.

 

After the Invincible War everyone on Earth basically knows how incredibly powerful Mark Grayson's are

 

At this point, Mark has a very odd mix of positive and negative Reputation. Plenty of people think he's the savior of earth (few know just how true that is) while others definitely hate and fear him.

 

He may have a rather high PRE, at least as it relates to fear. He almost never backs down no matter how massive the threat. But he's not a smooth talker or a particularly inspirational leader.

 

Heaps of speed and resilience, but then again when Viltrumites tussle the blood starts to fly. Maybe Damage Reduction Only versus Non-Viltrumites for a crazy meta-solution.

 

That sorta thing can work, but it needs to be expanded a bit. It's not just Viltrumites that can hurt each other after all.

 

Battle Beast, Alan the Alien and Tech Jacket have all hurt or killed Viltrumites. Heck, in the most recent issue Dinosarus punched Mark hard enough that he was spitting blood. Space Racer's gun is probably an AVAD, so probably not worth counting that one. There was also that alien race that Nolan wrote about in his books... name escapes me at the moment...

[phoenix240]

Re: Invincible

 

One of the problems with modeling fictional characters particularly comic book character for me is that their portrayals are no where near as consistent as a character sheet. Writer's fiat drives allot of things that if you applied them literally in game terms could lead to problems.