Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

[CrosshairCollie]

What would you estimate the limitation value be for Extra Strength, only to increase throwing distance?

 

Specifically, the extra STR does not increase damage or lifting capacity; he still has to be able to lift the item in the first place, and will still do only his base STR damage with it if it hits. It's intended to be more of a 'throwing people' power for Fastball specials or giving flyers a boost rather than a damage-dealing power.

[Escafarc]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

In Fantasy HERO the Atlatl has STR only for throwing distance (-1).

[phoenix240]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

-1 in Sixth. -1 1/2 in 5th (counting in No Figured) at least. I could be convinced to go higher.

[Naanomi]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

I've gone with -1 before, though that version also increased damage of thrown objects...

 

How about Naked Advantage: 'Line of Sight' on X points of strength? When you absolutely have to throw someone to the moon...

[Martin2]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

In Fantasy HERO the Atlatl has STR only for throwing distance (-1).

 

Atlatl is a historic item which increases the range of spears which are designed to be thrown.

 

Lower limitation for a item that is not designed to be thrown???

[Escafarc]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

Atlatl is a historic item which increases the range of spears which are designed to be thrown.

 

Lower limitation for a item that is not designed to be thrown???

 

No. that would be covered on the Throwing Tables for the different types of objects.

[RexMundi]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

Well, there are Official Write Ups in Hero 6e Products that go, -3/4 for basically 4 effects (Disarm, Escape, Grab, Throw for example). Based on that logic, I'd say if it's Just for throwing distance alone, -1 1/2 total.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

I have a superhero character with a power like this. Here's how I did it:

 

15	[b]Heave Ho!:[/b]  +20 STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); Only For Throwing (-1)

 

You can see the rest here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/original/champions/grenadier.html

[Christopher]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

Atlatl is a historic item which increases the range of spears which are designed to be thrown.

 

Lower limitation for a item that is not designed to be thrown???

Nope, that is already reflected in the Throwing Rules themself: "Throwing a Character", 6E2 82. And there was no mentioning that this is only to throw characters in the posts so far.

 

Actually, has this character many "range based on STR" Powers? (or even one)

[Ice9]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

IMO, a lot more than -1. At least -2, maybe more. Would anyone consider "Not for Throwing Distance" to be a -1 limitation on Strength? Or even -1/2? Heck, I'm not sure it would even be -1/4. When something is "less than 20% of the value", then boosting that component only is definitely not worth "half the value" - which is what -1 explicitly represents, ala Limited Power.

 

And even Limited Power is a bit wonky, IMO. -2 is called out as some uber-limitation, but it really isn't. It's 1/3 the cost, at best - and if a limitation was significantly more limiting than that, I would assign a higher value. It's not even like none of the existing limitations goes above that. A fairly standard "Spell" limitation set (Gestures, Incantations, OAF (staff), Extra Time (full phase), RAR) is worth more than that by itself, and "Dweomer of Heroic Strength" is going to have a lot more effect in most games than "Strength Only For Throwing Distance".

[dmjalund]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

I don't think you can make such a comparison for something as flexible as strength. As a character can adapt his strategy based on what he can or cannot do. so that - as you say - Not for X - is rightly a low value, as the character has plenty of other options, but if he has the Only for X limitation, X can become his "thing"

[Lucius]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

I don't think you can make such a comparison for something as flexible as strength. As a character can adapt his strategy based on what he can or cannot do. so that - as you say - Not for X - is rightly a low value' date=' as the character has plenty of other options, but if he has the Only for X limitation, X can become his "thing"[/quote']

 

Well put.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Only For Palindromedary Taglines

[Ice9]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

True, but not to that extent. If it was "Strength Only For Throwing", then sure, that's not so bad a limitation (although not trivial either), and neither is "Strength, Not For Throwing". But this is Strength only for throwing distance.

Let's look at which of the functions of Strength it can fulfill:

 

Deal damage - No

Lift/carry heavy things - No

Perform "feats of strength" - No

Use combat manuevers (Grab, Shove, Disarm, etc) - No

Resist combat manuevers - No

Break free from Entangle - No

Throw things a long distance - Yes

 

That's not even close to half the uses, and "throw things a long distance" is not even equal to most single other uses, such as "deal damage" or "resist combat manuevers".

[dmjalund]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

Yes in this instance for throwing distance only, would be something like -1 1/2. I was just objecting to the blanket using of the "rule" of Limitation (X Only) is directly calculated from the value of Limitation (Not X)

[Ice9]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

Still too little, IMO. I would seriously put this at -3 or more.

I blame Limited Power - for unknown reasons, it assigns values as if the scale were exponential (-2 being more than 2x the savings of -1) when in fact the opposite is true.

[dmjalund]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

but if a character has the ability to throw things far, he will find a way to make it useful.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

I don't think you can make such a comparison for something as flexible as strength. As a character can adapt his strategy based on what he can or cannot do. so that - as you say - Not for X - is rightly a low value' date=' as the character has plenty of other options, but if he has the Only for X limitation, X can become his "thing"[/quote']

...So he's the Dude with the Thing?

[dmjalund]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

no, just HIS thing.

[Christopher]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

but if a character has the ability to throw things far' date=' he will find a way to make it useful.[/quote']

Certainly. Especially when he has martial throw (or maybe even a variant that is a Blocking Grab + following throw, possible writh HSMA rules), he has a very effective weapon against melee fighters.

And don't forget usage of the environment: When the enemy has no flying, a throw beyond the that cliff/from the rooftop/into the open tanks full of chemicals can be a very effective tactic.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

but if a character has the ability to throw things far' date=' he will find a way to make it useful.[/quote']

 

So why have limitations at all? The character can throw things far, and will find a way to make that useful. But a character with unlimited STR will be able to throw things just as far, plus get all the other benefits of that high STR. If the second character can do much more with his STR, is it not reasonable that he should pay much more for that STR?

 

If the limitation for "only to throw things further" is -1/2, what is the limitation for "not to lift things"? Can't be more than -1/4 - that's much less limiting. So, if I can have either +30 STR only to increase throwing distance for 20 points, or +30 STR not to lift things for 24 points, which one would make a more effective character? I'm interested in suggestions on the abilities I buy with the 4 points I saved to make the two characters comparable in utility.

 

I wonder whether limitations suggested for Telekinesis might make good benchmarks for this limited STR (although I don't think I've ever seen TK limited to that extent either).

[Christopher]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

So why have limitations at all?

Who talked about no Limitation(value)?

We just err on the side of caution when determining the value.

[Ice9]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

As the saying goes, sufficiently undervalued limitations are indistinguishable from no limitations ... or maybe I just made that up. But really, erring too far on the low side for a limitation is just as bad as erring to far on the high side. Any power level caps should be independent of the real cost, so the "worst case scenario" is that a player has a few extra points. Conversely, valuing limitations too lightly can pressure players toward more generic abilities.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

So why have limitations at all? The character can throw things far, and will find a way to make that useful. But a character with unlimited STR will be able to throw things just as far, plus get all the other benefits of that high STR. If the second character can do much more with his STR, is it not reasonable that he should pay much more for that STR?

 

If the limitation for "only to throw things further" is -1/2, what is the limitation for "not to lift things"? Can't be more than -1/4 - that's much less limiting. So, if I can have either +30 STR only to increase throwing distance for 20 points, or +30 STR not to lift things for 24 points, which one would make a more effective character? I'm interested in suggestions on the abilities I buy with the 4 points I saved to make the two characters comparable in utility.

 

I wonder whether limitations suggested for Telekinesis might make good benchmarks for this limited STR (although I don't think I've ever seen TK limited to that extent either).

Most of the people who posted a value went with -1 for "Only for throwing distance". That makes it 15 RP vs 24 RP, a savings of 9 RP.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

Most of the people who posted a value went with -1 for "Only for throwing distance". That makes it 15 RP vs 24 RP' date=' a savings of 9 RP.[/quote']

 

So I repeat the question - what do you buy for 9 points to make the two characters comparable in utility. Keep in mind that I need to make up 6 DC's lost on that extra STR, just for starters.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Lim Value: 'Only to increase throwing distance'

 

So I repeat the question - what do you buy for 9 points to make the two characters comparable in utility. Keep in mind that I need to make up 6 DC's lost on that extra STR' date=' just for starters.[/quote']

RKA, Range Based On Strength, OAF, Gestures, Incantations. 30 / 3 = 10. Granted, it's one point over, but oh well.