Space the final frontier

[megaplayboy]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

The implications of transporter technology are truly disturbing. You can literally replicate living beings(complete with all their training and memories)--a less scrupulous species could whip up an army overnight. Talk about Clone Wars!

 

Or you could lock onto the crew of an enemy vessel after knocking down their shields--and beam them all into the hard vaccuum of space.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

The implications of transporter technology are truly disturbing. You can literally replicate living beings(complete with all their training and memories)--a less scrupulous species could whip up an army overnight. Talk about Clone Wars!

 

Or you could lock onto the crew of an enemy vessel after knocking down their shields--and beam them all into the hard vaccuum of space.

I always liked the "transport the organs right outta ya" version, ala the Phage in Star Trek: Voyager, myself.

 

But you have to admit... Star Trek holograms were awesome too. In that same Phage story the doc kept Nelix alive (after the Phage transported his lungs away) by projecting a pair of holographic lungs into his torso using Sickbay's holographic emitters.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

I always liked the "transport the organs right outta ya" version, ala the Phage in Star Trek: Voyager, myself.

 

But you have to admit... Star Trek holograms were awesome too. In that same Phage story the doc kept Nelix alive (after the Phage transported his lungs away) by projecting a pair of holographic lungs into his torso using Sickbay's holographic emitters.

 

There's probably a good story that could be written about an agoraphobe who lives out a hedonistic utopian existence inside a holodeck.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Well, in 'The Dilbert Future', Scott Adams (Dilbert's creator, funny guy) had a chapter titled 'Why The Future Won't Be Like Star Trek'. Amongst other things, he suggested that the Holodeck would probably be the last things that Humanity ever creates - because there will be no reason for any of us to want to leave it. Doesn't matter what might be happening elsewhere, because (as Scott puts it) most of us will infinitely prefer to stay in the Holodeck getting oil massages from Cindy Crawford and her identical twin sister.

[RexMundi]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Not a bad Idea.

 

~Rex....says Cindy is still looking pretty darn good.

[Clonus]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Well' date=' in 'The Dilbert Future', Scott Adams (Dilbert's creator, funny guy) had a chapter titled 'Why The Future Won't Be Like Star Trek'. Amongst other things, he suggested that the Holodeck would probably be the last things that Humanity ever creates - because there will be no reason for any of us to want to leave it. Doesn't matter what might be happening elsewhere, because (as Scott puts it) most of us will infinitely prefer to stay in the Holodeck getting oil massages from Cindy Crawford and her identical twin sister.[/quote']

 

Just ask the Talosians.

[Christopher]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Teleporting warheads to multiple points around a ship' date=' photon torps actually being more effective than a stick of dynamite, etc.[/quote']

Then the enemy would start using transport scramblers and point defense phaser as a usual means of defense.

 

The dangers/possibilities of Transporters were partially adressed in Stargate Atlantis (the "Beam Warhead to Wraith Ship"), but these tricks where soon blocked by the enemy.

There was also one Star Trek DS9 Episode (the Season with Esri Dax), where a sniper used a gun with teleporter to shoot people through walls (RKA, Indirect combined with Wall Penetrating Sight).

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

There's probably a good story that could be written about an agoraphobe who lives out a hedonistic utopian existence inside a holodeck.

 

Fanfic sites have probably already done this, a thousand times over. Not that I ever read fanfic. No, seriously, I don't! Why are you looking at me like that?

 

And Voyager even had a rather hilarious storyline about 6 of 9, er, I mean 7 of 9 exploring romantic relationships in the Holodeck.

[RexMundi]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Just the thought of fanfic.....eww.......

 

~Rex

 

[Lucius]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Who the heck is tobias 1482?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Inquiring palindromedaries think they might want to know

[RexMundi]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

I'd say, someone to watch out for at a Convention.....Honestly though, nobody I know but it's been popping up on a lot of those various geek charts so I'd say, beware.

 

~Rex...

[Lucius]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

I did a websearch. Possibly this person

 

http://www.myspace.com/tobias1482

 

he lists "Collision detection algorithms" under "interests."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Insert geeky palindromedary tagline here

[Christopher]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

There's probably a good story that could be written about an agoraphobe who lives out a hedonistic utopian existence inside a holodeck.

 

And Voyager even had a rather hilarious storyline about 6 of 9' date=' er, I mean 7 of 9 exploring romantic relationships in the Holodeck.[/quote']

Reginald Barklay, when he was still on the TNG Enterprise.

 

There was also one alien in TNG that used a Holo-thing to trap Riker in a illusion - mostly because it was young and feared contact with a large group of people.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Also an 'Enterprise' episode, where they find a spacecraft stranded on a hostile world - for quite a few years as it turns out.

 

There are survivors - a family and some of the crew, some of whom seem rather ... "odd". Turns out the father and his young daughter were the only survivors, and he then created a bunch of holograms to keep her company and also help maintain the ship's systems.

[Christopher]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Also an 'Enterprise' episode, where they find a spacecraft stranded on a hostile world - for quite a few years as it turns out.

 

There are survivors - a family and some of the crew, some of whom seem rather ... "odd". Turns out the father and his young daughter were the only survivors, and he then created a bunch of holograms to keep her company and also help maintain the ship's systems.

In one early DS9 Epsiode they found found a vilage that consisted entirely out of holograms - except for the village elder, who made them. Was afaik with Odo/Jetzia Dax

[Christopher]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

And let's not forget Vina from the first TOS Pilot "The Cage"

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Who the heck is tobias 1482?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Inquiring palindromedaries think they might want to know

 

The random 4chan member being mercilessly heckled by the creator of that flowchart?

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

The implications of transporter technology are truly disturbing. You can literally replicate living beings(complete with all their training and memories)--a less scrupulous species could whip up an army overnight. Talk about Clone Wars!

There was a pair of novels a long time ago (before TNG), titled "The Price of the Phoenix" and "The Fate of the Phoenix" that deal with just that possibility, iirc.

 

Or you could lock onto the crew of an enemy vessel after knocking down their shields--and beam them all into the hard vaccuum of space.

or, as was done at least once in the series (to an object, not a person), defocus the transporter beam an spread them across the system without ever re-materializing. Much more humane than allowing them to suffocate in space.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

What about weaponizing the holo-emitters? There was a Voyager episode where they put a holographic lung in Neelix and a TNG where they kept Wharf alive by replacing his spine (and spinal column?) with a hologram...

 

Imagine the possibilities of complex constructs insinuated within your oppositions body! Heck, you could probably holographically implant cerebral control devices and safely mind control their whole army, or implant stints that cause instant cardiac arrest, strokes or just blindness...

 

And what about your own troops? Anything but a critical wound could be temporarily (permanently with enough power?) healed and maybe enhanced (or even project entire armies of holographic warriors and weapons???). What ever happened to those sentient holograms (photonics?) that once attacked Voyager?

 

It'd end up being a cross between Green Lantern's power ring and the newest iterations of Adam Strange's Rannian hard-light plasma weapons. Cool! Anything you need right when you need it.

[Christopher]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

What about weaponizing the holo-emitters?

Not as good as it sounds. The range is very limited. Usually you have to be inside a room designed for complex holograms for this to work.

 

Holographic Armies: A lot of Power, a vulnerable/easily disturbed Hlolographic generator and they still need normal weapons anyway.

 

Beaming the whole crew was doen two times at least:

Once in DS9 when Gul Dukatt got his Bird of Prey.

Once in Voyager, whe nsaid ship resqued the klingons stranded in the Delta Quadrant from their exploding Cruiser

 

And like I said, transporters are regulary stopped by transport scramblers, shields or just not being able to lock on.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Not as good as it sounds. The range is very limited. Usually you have to be inside a room designed for complex holograms for this to work.

Hogwash. There are multiple examples in Voyager that show otherwise (eg. The Doctor's Mobile Emitter - In fact, in the novel "Homecoming" the character Henry Bates, a holographic-rights sympathizer, creates a functionally equivalent emitter about the size of a briefcase on Earth using Earth tech. So it's possible without 29th century technology, it just needs further refinement.)

 

Holographic Armies: A lot of Power, a vulnerable/easily disturbed Hlolographic generator and they still need normal weapons anyway.

As far as holographic weapons go... How many times have we seen the Holodeck's safety protocols disabled and the true lethality of holographic weapons displayed. As long as you're in the field, you're vulnerable!

 

Again... A Delta Quadrant species, known as the Lokirrim, had enslaved holograms, known as "photonics" to them. They rebelled, leading to a war between the two sides (Voyager: "Body & Soul"). If power were a problem it would have been a simple thing to quell the Photonic rebellion... but I assume it wasn't.

 

Holograms also fought in hand-to-hand and blaster battles in Voyager (Voyager: "Photons Be Free") and were much stronger and more proficient than all the "meaty" races they faced. Torres was actually able to enhance their hologram emitters on the fly. Given time they could be developed to be regional, continental or even global in sway!!!

 

Imagine a few dozen of these secretly transported onto, into or in orbit around a planet... Each emitter with shielding, ECM, ECCM and stealth tech. You may get lucky and find 2 or even 10, but all it takes is one and you have an army that can react globally at the speed of thought with any weapon imaginable. OUCH!

 

In fact, holographic armies (or weapons) could be instantly coded and relocated to portable emitters anywhere (as far away as the other side of the galaxy - been done with The Doctor's program - from Delta to Alpha quadrant and back). Single enhanced emitters could even be configured to produce multiple holograms that could form tight fighting units. Shooting the hologram would only disrupt the field, not the hologram's program. Thus, your soldier could instantly reappear after "death". They wouldn't need to eat or sleep, could modify their visage and gear or (assuming the field reached) even alter the very environment... Yikes!!!

 

And we haven't even begun talking about the holographic field projector's mysterious ability to project within a sentient mass. Yuck!

 

It wouldn't take much to develop holographic tech to the point of sheer awesome.

 

LONG LIVE THE CHILDREN OF LIGHT!!!

 

Ahem, sorry

[Christopher]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Hogwash. There are multiple examples in Voyager that show otherwise (eg. The Doctor's Mobile Emitter - In fact' date=' in the novel "Homecoming" the character Henry Bates, a holographic-rights sympathizer, creates a functionally equivalent emitter about the size of a briefcase on Earth using Earth tech. So it's possible without 29th century technology, it just needs further refinement.)[/quote']

The emitter was 29th century tech. By then the enemy would have 29th century counter tech.

It's still the fact that stopping something from working is easier than making it work. Do your remember how often they have disabeled Planet Killers, Alien Traps and other stuff even when it was way more advanced and has been around for hundreds of years?

 

As far as holographic weapons go... How many times have we seen the Holodeck's safety protocols disabled and the true lethality of holographic weapons displayed. As long as you're in the field' date=' you're vulnerable![/quote']

Each of these chases this was a ship bound/station/planet bound holodeck or small area emitters (with short lifetime). It needs to draw the energy damaging you from somehwere. The holodeck itself is nothing but photons, tractor beams and just-in-time replication of matter.

 

Torres was actually able to enhance their hologram emitters on the fly. Given time they could be developed to be regional' date=' continental or even global in sway!!! [/quote']

Now imagine how long she would take to modifiy the deflector to produce a disruptive signal. Not long either.

 

Imagine a few dozen of these secretly transported onto' date=' into or in orbit around a planet... Each emitter with shielding, ECM, ECCM and stealth tech. You may get lucky and find 2 or even 10, but all it takes is one and you have an army that can react globally at the speed of thought with any weapon imaginable. OUCH! [/quote']

One Global anti-hologramm emitter. One shoot form orbit against you emitter - that can't stay hidden while producing an army - and your army is gone. If it is hard to target the anyone woudl just target the area...

 

In fact' date=' holographic armies (or weapons) could be instantly coded and relocated to portable emitters anywhere (as far away as the other side of the galaxy - been done with The Doctor's program - from Delta to Alpha quadrant and back). Single enhanced emitters could even be configured to produce multiple holograms that could form tight fighting units. Shooting the hologram would only disrupt the field, not the hologram's program. Thus, your soldier could instantly reappear after "death". They wouldn't need to eat or sleep, could modify their visage and gear or (assuming the field reached) even alter the very environment... Yikes!!! [/quote']

Ship bound holodecks use Just-In-Time replciation (and the doctors emitter most likely too). So this emitter will need a ton of raw material and raw energy to spit out a atom bomb or 1 Million Phaser Rifles.

 

And we haven't even begun talking about the holographic field projector's mysterious ability to project within a sentient mass. Yuck!

A plot device, nothing more. The only one to easily grab into torres body was a alien hologramm, with the doctors emitter. So all bets are off. Oh, and you do remember how that one was beaten?

 

You are very fast at seeing all those Star Trek tech through Pink Glasses and totally forgot one rule about Star Trek: For any "cheap trick" supeweapon one fraction develops, the Main Cast creates a counter.

And the weaponizing the Holoemitters is about the cheapest trick you can use, right next to Beaming Torpedos.

 

Cloning with teleporters:

You are aware that mass has to come somwhere? You need a ton of spare energy to create a human body, around M*C². That is why replicators are actually not replicating matter - they reform storages of raw carbon. The same way transports get most of their enegry from actually unbindign the energy in the original.

[Barwickian]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

An idea I borrowed off a friend is to make the captain a group character.

 

It works in almost any military situation -- my friend told me about it when we were discussing Age of Sail naval campaigns -- and avoids the problem of a one player being able to pull rank on the rest, and the problem of the captain's player not showing up.

 

Basically, when the captain must make a decision the players discuss it, come to an agreement, then one of them roleplays it as the captain.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

Very interesting, Andy. Rep you if I could.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Space the final frontier

 

The emitter was 29th century tech. By then the enemy would have 29th century counter tech.

It's still the fact that stopping something from working is easier than making it work. Do your remember how often they have disabeled Planet Killers, Alien Traps and other stuff even when it was way more advanced and has been around for hundreds of years?

I think you missed the second part of my statement - that you actually quoted : In fact, in the novel "Homecoming" the character Henry Bates, a holographic-rights sympathizer, creates a functionally equivalent emitter about the size of a briefcase on Earth using Earth tech. So it's possible without 29th century technology, it just needs further refinement. It's canon...

 

As for disabeling Planet Killers, Alien Traps and other stuff... Of COURSE THEY DO! They're the protagonists! If they don't, the show ends.

 

Each of these chases this was a ship bound/station/planet bound holodeck or small area emitters (with short lifetime). It needs to draw the energy damaging you from somehwere. The holodeck itself is nothing but photons, tractor beams and just-in-time replication of matter.

Emitters were placed planetside so that the holograms could live out their existence on their new world.... Not the weekend. There's no reason that their scope couldn't be broadened. There was never any concern about power outages/shortages. A simple (and small) dilithium crystal matrix would keep the projectors viable for years. Remember, this wouldn't be a weekend science project... It would be an advanced world's (empire's?) answer for war, backed by huge funding. There WOULD be advancements.

 

Now imagine how long she would take to modifiy the deflector to produce a disruptive signal. Not long either.

Oh c'mon. I already mentioned shielding, ECM, ECCM and stealth tech. Given years (and dozens of their own Toreseseses/Datas/awesome engineers), I'm certain an advanced society could make these new emitters nigh impossible to hack. And I'm also talking about peppering a target with dozens of redundant systems. If they worked on an encoded, modulating frequency it'd be nigh impossible to knock them all out.

 

One Global anti-hologramm emitter. One shoot form orbit against you emitter - that can't stay hidden while producing an army - and your army is gone. If it is hard to target the anyone woudl just target the area...

So now, you're in the business too?? Hahaha! Again, this is a war device. Modulating frequencies, ECM, ECCM, stealth tech, shielding, etc. etc... If it were that easy to take them out they'd have been able to shut down The Doctor whenever they wanted... But when he was wearing his emitter, they couldn't. He even offered to give Janeway the emitter as a form of self punishment (Janeway said no. She was cool that way).

 

Ship bound holodecks use Just-In-Time replciation (and the doctors emitter most likely too). So this emitter will need a ton of raw material and raw energy to spit out a atom bomb or 1 Million Phaser Rifles.

True, but the answer is a matter/anti-matter reaction regulated by a dilithium crystal matrix. The devices need only be as big as a ship's core, probably much smaller (a Constitution-class starship's core is only as big as a shuttle - as seen when jettisoned or towed - TOS: "That Which Survives"; TNG: "Cause and Effect"; VOY: "Cathexis", "Day of Honor", "Renaissance Man"; Star Trek; VOY: "Renaissance Man"). 12.5 metric tons of slush Deuterium keeps a starship running for 3 years (oh, and a 12.5 metric ton container is similar in size to a natural gas tank - much smaller than a shuttle). These emitters could last quite long and be very small indeed.

 

 

A plot device, nothing more. The only one to easily grab into torres body was a alien hologramm, with the doctors emitter. So all bets are off. Oh, and you do remember how that one was beaten?

Well, this happened at least 3 times (Tores/Nelix/Whorf). On one occasion the process happened very fast (life or death weighing in the balance (replacing Neelix's lungs). Sure they were ALL plot devices... Just like the main protagonists saving the day every time (but you didn't have a problem pointing that out earlier).

 

I think you're missing the entire exercise here. Hologram tech, given the proper attention by an advanced civilization, could be developed to astounding levels quite quickly (based on a preponderance of the amazing things already being done with it in Star Trek canon). And it would look hellacool!!!!!!

 

You are very fast at seeing all those Star Trek tech through Pink Glasses and totally forgot one rule about Star Trek: For any "cheap trick" supeweapon one fraction develops, the Main Cast creates a counter.

And the weaponizing the Holoemitters is about the cheapest trick you can use, right next to Beaming Torpedos.

Cheap trick??? You mean a weapon of mass destruction, right?

And stop talking about the "main cast". We know they will always win, even against 50th century end-of-days technology.

Oh, and they DO beam torpedos, right? It's one of my favorite tactics in Star Fleet Battles.

 

Cloning with teleporters:

You are aware that mass has to come somwhere? You need a ton of spare energy to create a human body, around M*C². That is why replicators are actually not replicating matter - they reform storages of raw carbon. The same way transports get most of their enegry from actually unbindign the energy in the original.

I think you missed my intention (or I wasn't clear). The "clones" would simply be new projections or independent holograms with autonomous control programs (multiple The Doctors acting as a Seal Team if you must) stemming from a single emitter. This would reduce the number of personal emitters (if personal emitters were even needed). If each hologram were projected wearing its own (fake) emitter (or better yet, they were all carrying concealed decoy emitters) then it might prove quite difficult to take the team down by targeting the real emitter. Just another FUN idea.