THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Who says she hasn't conquered universes similar to the CU already?

 

No one's saying that, AFAIK. Anyone who is, is wrong. She's conquered more than one dimension that's similar to the CU; she has lots of superhumans in her Imperial Battalion. So far, though, Earth has proved too tough a nut to crack... as usual, we're special!

 

I hope that the book spells out why she absolutely must be stopped - rebelling against a utopian conqueror would seem flimsy.

 

Well, this is one of the philosophical underpinnings that makes using IV so potentially interesting, in my opinion. If she were implacably cruel and evil, the whole situation would be pretty easy. The fact that she is in many ways a tolerable ruler who often improves things for her subjects gives the issue a lot of dramatic and roleplaying potential. What's your freedom worth? She may be a relatively benign ruler, but she undeniably deprives her subjects of their freedom.

 

For me, the answer is "It is beyond price." I don't care how good she makes things, I refuse to submit to being ruled. Perhaps you or your PCs feel differently. If so, great! Awesome roleplaying opportunities ahead, Cap'n!

 

(Side note: In Rod Currie's 30th Anniversary adventure for Champions at Origins, we ran into more or less this same issue. Several players said, "Wait a minute. So Foxbat's messed around with time and changed reality to make himself the world's greatest hero? What's so bad about that? Sounds like things are actually better. Why make him a villain again?" I had to argue, quite forcefully at times, that there's a Right Reality and a Wrong Reality, and you never tolerate Wrong Reality no matter how good it is. Just like in CALL OF CTHULHU, even though characters would often be better off ignorant of the lurking horrors, you never turn down an opportunity to learn; knowledge is better than ignorance.

 

But I digress. )

 

Are there interdimensional property laws?

 

No, but there are interdimensional incorporeal hereditaments. ::lawyerly drumroll::

 

Does V'han frequent any particular universes?

 

Well, there's that neat little hammock dimension, down in the Hammock District....

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I purchased both The Book of the Destroyer and The Book of the Machine and thought they were both superlative (as I've written elsewhere on this forum). Each substantially exceeded my expectations. But they also detailed my two favorite master villains in the Champions Universe, by some distance. Perhaps because I am not personally as interested in multi-dimensional (or even just plain magical) super villains, I'm afraid that the very subject of this book is not a draw for me.

 

In preparation for writing this post, I paged through my copy of Champions Villains Vo. 1 and asked myself if there was another master villain I would prefer to be detailed in their own book, like Dr. Destroyer and Mechanon. And I'm afraid my personal answer is 'no.'

 

With all due respect, in what way, shape, or form is this pertinent? You're certainly entitled to your opinion. If you don't like the idea of this book or don't want this book, I'm sorry to hear it but that's absolutely your decision to make.

 

But this is a thread for people who actually want to discuss the content of the book. If you don't, fine, but don't insert this sort of meaningless nonsense into the thread, please.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hope she gets a few levels of Striking appearance this time, seeing as she had a 26 or so COM in 5th Ed, she's due some.

 

This probably won't happen. I don't envision her as a character who uses her attractiveness that way. She's gorgeous, but it has no game effect for her, so no reason to pay for it.

 

A) Related to Istvatha (Does she have a son, or daughter? As long lived as she is, not like our Empress will be showing her age). If she does, and if any are grown, are they loyal? Ambitious? Actually on the side of rebels?

 

This will be covered. My general current thinking is that she has no children. We already have that "what are the ruler's kids like?" dynamic with Skarn, and an inability to have children is certainly one possible motivation for wanting to make your mark on the world (or the multiverse! ) now, since you have no chance at a "legacy."

 

Members of her Court

 

Yup, these'll be covered, though some may only merit sidebar descriptions. That's the ideal sort of thing for sidebars in a setting book.

[Guest dan2448]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

With all due respect' date=' in what way, shape, or form is this pertinent? You're certainly entitled to your opinion.. but don't insert this sort of meaningless nonsense into the thread, please.[/quote']

 

I had thought that my views on the upcoming book, however ambivalent, were "pertinent" because I've been buying Champions books for almost 30 years now, and have enthusiastically purchased many of DoJ's products over the years (including over a dozen 5th edition Champions volumes as well as several for 6th edition). Since I'd already purchased Book of the Machine and Book of the Destroyer, as well as Champions Villians vol. 1, I had thought that I would be among the target audience for this book. On that basis, I had thought my ambivalence to toward subject of this upcoming book was "pertinent." My apologies if I mis-judged that.

 

While I recognized at the time I wrote the post that The Book of the Empress would be published no matter what, I also thought, for the reasons enumerated in the paragraph above, that my lack of enthusiasm for books detailing further Master Villains, or for books detailing magical or multi-dimensional characters might incrementally guide DoJ's publishing decisions in the future. For that reason, I did not think that my sentiments were "meaningless." This thread seemed to me like a reasonable topic on which to raise my personal sentiments in this regard. Again, my apologies if my assessment in this regard was also incorrect.

 

But I am not sure how, in any way, my post could be construed as "nonsensical" (i.e. lacks coherent meaning).

[yamamura]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

An anime Magic Girl genre where The Empress is trying to take over Japan. Really would work well. I would even be willing to come up with a write up for it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

No one's saying that' date=' AFAIK. Anyone who is, is wrong. She's conquered more than one dimension that's similar to the CU; she has lots of superhumans in her Imperial Battalion. So far, though, Earth has proved too tough a nut to crack... as usual, we're special! [/quote']

 

Perhaps a discussion of why we are special. This might encompass why Earth has been able to hold out for so long (or has it? have other dimensions had lengthy battles of conquest, perhaps over years or even millenia?) and why V'han keeps trying for our little backwater. Are there other dimensions she has given up on (either permanently or to come back to later because they're not a priority), perhaps, and if so, how do those get handled within the Empire?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

While I recognized at the time I wrote the post that The Book of the Empress would be published no matter what

 

A challenge - what could be included in the book which would cause you to consider making it a possible or definite purchase?

[Steve]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

When we are talking about conquering a dimension, why start the conquest near Earth? She could open a beachhead several galaxies away from Earth. What prevents this? Her ego? Rules of inter-dimensional travel?

[megaplayboy]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

When we are talking about conquering a dimension' date=' why start the conquest near Earth? She could open a beachhead several galaxies away from Earth. What prevents this? Her ego? Rules of inter-dimensional travel?[/quote']

 

I suspect the usual explanation for this sort of issue is that the dimensional barriers are either weakest near Earth, or that the actual gateway is specifically located near Earth. The final possible reason is that perhaps this was the first area of this universe she encountered and she's thus obsessed with it, or that she is inordinately fond of conquering Earth-like planets in other dimensions and just wants to continue in that vein.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Something just occurred to me: part of V'han's legions probably include several units made up entirely of alternate versions of the same person.

 

I've seen it done in comics: the collection of Captains Britain from the various universes of the Marvel Multiverse, and in DC (I forget the miniseries title -- heroes were fighting alternate versions of themselves in an arena) when various versions of Captain Atom showed up to attack Monarch.

 

So there might be a Defender Brigade, an Ironclad Brigade, a Silverback Brigade, a Justiciar Brigade, a Menton Brigade, a Foxbat Brigade, a Seeker Brigade, and so forth.

 

Alternately, such a collection of alternate-version heroes could be a unit in the multiversal resistance. Perhaps the Legion of Defenders monitors V'han's activities, warns the defenders of worlds that could stand a chance of standing up to her, and makes decisive strikes where they can. The Legion of Nighthawks could similarly carry out covert activities such as sabotage, espionage, ambush attacks, and the like. The Legion of Foxbats... well, I don't want to think about that one too hard.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Perhaps a discussion of why we are special.

 

Sorry, but that's highly unlikely. My Iron Age-ry only goes so far. We're special because we're Earth! We have that certain something that no one else has. That's pretty much it.

 

Some genre conventions I'd just rather not explain.

 

Well, OK, I suppose I could claim the shape of our continents gives us magic powers or something. But that exceeds my desired level of goofiness.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I had thought that my views on the upcoming book, however ambivalent, were "pertinent" because I've been buying Champions books for almost 30 years now, and have enthusiastically purchased many of DoJ's products over the years (including over a dozen 5th edition Champions volumes as well as several for 6th edition). Since I'd already purchased Book of the Machine and Book of the Destroyer, as well as Champions Villians vol. 1, I had thought that I would be among the target audience for this book. On that basis, I had thought my ambivalence to toward subject of this upcoming book was "pertinent." My apologies if I mis-judged that.

 

While I recognized at the time I wrote the post that The Book of the Empress would be published no matter what, I also thought, for the reasons enumerated in the paragraph above, that my lack of enthusiasm for books detailing further Master Villains, or for books detailing magical or multi-dimensional characters might incrementally guide DoJ's publishing decisions in the future. For that reason, I did not think that my sentiments were "meaningless." This thread seemed to me like a reasonable topic on which to raise my personal sentiments in this regard. Again, my apologies if my assessment in this regard was also incorrect.

 

Dan, your thoughts about an upcoming book are both relevant and welcome -- in the proper thread. We have threads up in Company Questions, for example, where people comment about upcoming books. They often tell us what they will and won't buy.

 

That's when to tell us you're not interested in a title: months and months before it comes out. If we got enough negative response about a book that far in advance, we could consider changing it, or replacing it with something else. That's one reason why we announce our schedules a year or more in advance.

 

But by the time I've started a WDYWTS thread and gotten to work on a book, "I don't want this book" is an utterly useless and inappropriate comment. A thread asking about suggestions for the contents of a book is in no way a proper place to say "I don't want this book." That's no more relevant or useful at this point than "This book should be all about Foxbat!" or "I'd like to see a supplement on Necromancy."

 

We always want to hear what our fans think about our upcoming titles, positive or negative -- but there's a proper time and place for everything. This thread was posted for a specific, clearly-stated purpose, and your response had nothing to do with that purpose. It would have if you'd posted "I have no interest in this book, but I might change my mind if it included X, Y, and Z." That's well within the confines of the thread, since it discusses what you want to see in the book (even if you don't like the general idea of the book). But "I don't want this book" just isn't appropriate or helpful at this point.

[Steve]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What does Empress V'han do with her leisure time, or does she not take any time for leisure? Does she have a passion for a certain form of art, like opera or sculpture? Does she collect things?

 

Does she maintain any sort of social life? She has her pick of lovers from across multiple variations of timelines, so she could have quite a variety of them. How does she handle romantic overtures from would-be consorts?

[Sub-Par Dragon]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see some info on the specific Earthlings who played a role in foiling the Empress's prior invasion attempts, her plans for revenge and feelings towards such individuals, as well as the fate of any counterparts or alternate versions who failed to stop her.

 

Also, an adventure seed where PC's would be forced to team up with unsavory resistance members, such as the afore-suggested Nazis that were conquered and their world "liberated" from the "Eternal Reich"

 

Please.

 

I'll buy it anyway, cause The Empress is awesome!!

[Christopher]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

When we are talking about conquering a dimension' date=' why start the conquest near Earth? She could open a beachhead several galaxies away from Earth. What prevents this? Her ego? Rules of inter-dimensional travel?[/quote']

Actually when you do the right quests in Champions Online (the ones giving you translation for Gadroon/Qularr) you can read their consoles and find out that she did it there:

She is currently the leader of the Gadroon and waging successfull war against the Qularr unsing "D-Warriors". I sense a "Help the Qularr stop the empepress, or earth will be next" Adventure pack comming.

 

And Qularr intel also say she can't travel through time and may have less dimensions than she claims.

[Hermit]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

 

 

This will be covered. My general current thinking is that she has no children. We already have that "what are the ruler's kids like?" dynamic with Skarn, and an inability to have children is certainly one possible motivation for wanting to make your mark on the world (or the multiverse! ) now, since you have no chance at a "legacy."

Much as I like the family angle for cosmic tyrants, That's an intriguing motivation to add on. If I might suggest a way to have cake and eat it too; one could put a ward in her care. The son or daughter of one some realm's former ruler which Vhan had replaced. Now said ward(s) of the court can act as both guest, student, and hostage should the ex ruler get the idea of rebelling into his or her head. Perhaps one of the former wards has grown up believing he or she was indeed a son or daughter of V'han only to find out it was the Empress' troops that killed his or her true parents? V'han might have meant taking the child of the fallen as a kindness, but the now adult ex-heir certainly see it differently.

 

And, Barren or not, V'han might have a sibling or two in the wings.

 

Another thought, and forgive me if you've mentioned this and I'm just blanking out... but does V'han herself have duplicates? Is there a "Council of V'Hans" like Marvel had a council of Kangs or is she truly unique in the many universes? Is an accidental duplicate creation one of the reasons she is reluctant to time travel?

[Bloodstone]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

V'han's influence vastly exceeds her personal power, so to make her really scary, I'd like to see some minions that are mind numbingly powerful.

 

An important part of their writeups would be details on how she manages to inspire loyalty or otherwise control these beings, many of whom will be much more powerful than her in a physical confrontation.

 

For example, the last time I saw her used effectively she was introduced face to face with the PC's with 12 "Herald of Galactus" class characters in tow.

 

When I say in tow, I refer to the fact they were on leashes.

 

Picture beings with the power cosmic, each one able to personally blow up planets and reshape galaxies, being toted around like some sort of lap dog fashion accessories.

 

Mind you, the team had already fought one of these pets and nearly lost several sessions prior.

 

The only reason they had "won" having been that V'han had tightened the leash and pulled her minion back out of Earth's dimension. As the story went, he was only supposed to be a scout. He was apparently punished harshly for failing his mission and having been discovered by the PC's. The fact that this Silver Surfer-esque being looked utterly cowed in her presence lent to the atmosphere quite well.

 

V'ahn was showing up to congratulate the PC's on their competence, offer them jobs and intimidate them into not interfering with her plans...

 

It was a casual show of force on her part and immediately set the tone of the next story arc.

 

She wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective without those "loyal" minions by her side...

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

but does V'han herself have duplicates?

 

No. Given the nature of her powers, she is a unique being -- there are no other V'hans in any alternate realities. And unless absolutely necessary, she never travels back in time to "meet herself," since that can cause all sorts of problems. I plan to go into this in the section discussing her powers in detail; they have some interesting implications and consequences.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Actually when you do the right quests in Champions Online (the ones giving you translation for Gadroon/Qularr) you can read their consoles and find out that she did it there:

She is currently the leader of the Gadroon and waging successfull war against the Qularr unsing "D-Warriors".

 

You'll actually find out more about that by reading Champions Beyond -- and of course BotE, in time.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What does Empress V'han do with her leisure time

 

"Female full-contact karate." ::drumroll::

[drunkonduty]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Actually I think the WHY of why she is invading Earth is important. It gives the HOW of how to defeat her. By which I mean it sets the limits on what the campaign/scenario is about.

 

Mmm, how to explain it better...

 

There's a bunch of reasons she might be targetting Earth. Each reason will directly inform the way in which V'Han (and her operatives) act in the invasion. What the goal is will effect how the D-Soldiers go about trying to achieve it and will define what is considered a "win" or "loss" situation by her local commanders. It will also be quite telling about V'Han's personality OR the way her Empire is being run by the local governors in this neck of the interdimensional woods. (These two things may well be at odds.)

 

Some examples:

 

1. The classic Earth is located at an important dimensional nexus. V'Han wants a hyper-space by-pass put in here. Cue 'dozers. Or Earth makes an excellent forward base for further expansion. Cue large military staging base.

 

2. Earth is a great source of phlebotinum. She intends to set up a massive phlebotinum mine and refinery here. Shame that refining phelbotinum causes such horrible, mutation-causing pollution. Corrollary: maybe removing the phlebotinum removes Super Powers from Earth. There's a way to get the heroes motivated. In any case: humans are just "primitive animals in the way of exploiting an important economic resource, they need to be exterminated."

 

3. To serve mankind (1.) You know the way I mean: humans taste delicious. In this case maybe she's content to set up a forward base/staging area/factory and leave the actual harvesting to private organisations that send out hunting parties to harvest the free-range humans. Or maybe it goes all "factory farm and automated slaughter house."

 

4. To serve mankind (2.) V'Han is delighted and at the same time oh so annoyed to see a world that has such wonderful ideals (universal equality and all that Tom Paine "The Rights of Man" stuff) but that fails to live up to them. "Why, with a decent centralised administration that isn't subject to interference from vested interests, this little back water could become a Utopia." This would make for a "kinder, gentler" invasion in the form of a (pardon the politics) Legitimate Regime Change.

 

6. V'Han wants to put an extension on her multi-dimensional palace. Specifically a whale watching addendum to her Water Gardens. In this case she might be content with just blowing the heck out of whaling nations and only claiming a small part of Earth. "Oh, the Pacific Rim sounds nice."

 

7. Similar to 1. Earth is needed to prevent a vast salient forming around her army in the Gadroon/Qularr war. Would also explain why the Qularr have invaded earth a few times recently as they try to forestall a V'Hanian conquest.

 

8. A local Satrap/Grand Moff/Duke Palatine takes it into their head to invade Earth dimension because they think (right or wrong) that it will enhance their prestige and promotional prospects. Or perhaps they seek to break away from V'han and set up their own little Empire of a Billion Dimensions and the invasion will help in some way. Any of the above reasons could also apply but there's the opportunity to work with V'han.

 

So, yeah, I think the WHY, or a selection of WHY's to keep the players guessing, is good.

 

Other things I'd like to see:

 

A rough (very rough) overview of Imperial Administration with a more detailed look at the folks who run the Empire in this neck of the woods. Plus maybe some internal politics between factions.

 

Also what, if any, Public Persona does the Empress like to maintain? Is there free media in the Empire that can act to keep her honest or is it all Big Brother, Newspeak and the Ministry of Information?

 

Is the Empire a Tyranny? Does V'han maintain direct control of all major ministeries? Are there Satrapies? Are there local (for a given definition of "local" of course) councils? How do they interact?

 

anyhoo, I love V'han as a character and look forward to seeing an expansion on her.

 

cheers.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Is there a difference in how a dimension that surrenders to V'han is treated, versus one that attempts to resist her conquest? What happens if a dimension rises in rebellion against her? Are such worlds made an example of?

 

How does V'han view her subjects? Are they children whom she guides to a better future? Sheep who must be herded lest they hurt themselves? Or worker insects laboring to build a greater society for their queen? And how do her subjects view V'han? Is she some distant legend that most of them will never see or hear, or does she spread her words and image among them regularly? Is she a goddess to some, feared or even worshipped?

 

What, in tangible terms, does the rule of V'han bring to a dimension? What are the common Laws of V'han, and how does she see to their implementation and enforcement? What about taxation, and economic policies? Technological advances? Medical and food-production improvements? Does she see to her people's education, health-care, and/or housing? Are there any social practices she absolutely forbids her subjects from following?

[Christopher]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There's a bunch of reasons she might be targetting Earth. Each reason will directly inform the way in which V'Han (and her operatives) act in the invasion. What the goal is will effect how the D-Soldiers go about trying to achieve it and will define what is considered a "win" or "loss" situation by her local commanders. It will also be quite telling about V'Han's personality OR the way her Empire is being run by the local governors in this neck of the interdimensional woods. (These two things may well be at odds.)

Champions Online:

The Gadroons on earth, especially those terraforming in Canada, have difficulties with the process since they can't just "burn and rebuild", they have to slowly transform/replace to not cause much damage - all on Command of the Empress, so i guees we can rule out everything that destroys the planet/makes it inhabitable.

 

And you forgot the most simple reaseon:

We are there. And under her Command we are better of. ("I just wish to improve the lifequality for everyone. ").

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

An extension of my previous post: It just hit me this morning that the "legion of alternate versions" idea could be the basis for a V'han-centered campaign. The GM picks a character in the CU, and each player comes up with an alternate version of that character for part of the team.

 

That should be good for at least a paragraph or two in the GM's section.

[Steve]

Re: THE BOOK OF THE EMPRESS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Okay, since V'han is unique in the multiverse, I'd like to see how information on the state of her empire flows to her.

 

How do the worlds of the empire communicate with each other? Is there some sort of inter-dimensional comunication network? How about an inter-dimensional form of the internet? Are there news outlets of any kind? Or does information flow across dimensions require some form of courier network, like a high-tech pony express? An example of that would be the courier vessels that carried mail and news in Traveller, since there was no form of hyperspace radio.

 

Do worlds of the empire trade with each other? If so, how do they transport goods and individuals? Are there worlds that act as resorts and function as tourist destinations?

 

If there is trade, there is crime. Are there illicit substances that get transported? How about human/alien slave trafficking across the empire? What are V'han's police forces like? How are they organized? Are they all part of one massive agency or are they broken up into regional levels in some way? Do they use telepaths to gather information from suspects directly? How are superhumans used in policing? Are there super-criminals in V'han's empire? How many versions of Doctor Destroyer or Mechanon are plaguing her?

 

Are there local governors in each dimension? She can't possibly maintain control of millions of dimensions all by herself, so she needs some form of power delegation. Is there a bureaucracy of some kind? How do events from a single world in a single dimension flow up to her attention?

 

What are the stages for a new dimension becoming admitted to her empire? There must be some sort of process in place to bring new acquisitions in line. Are schools set up to function as indoctrination centers? How are rebellions following the initial conquest stamped out? Are history texts from pre-V'han times outlawed? Are there gulag worlds for those who refuse to bow to V'han? Does she teach new citizens to love her as some kind of god-empress?