kahuna's bro Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition ialways read it "kirby loo" i guess i was instintivele coorecting it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Aaron Allston's stuff was gold ... I can't tell you how many times I've referred to his supers stuff no matter the system I'm running Of all the older stuff, my favorite was always the Mastermind Option (Champions II?) ... I always liked that and was kind of bummed when it didn't make it into 4e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Maybe you could use the First Edition Characters using the 5th Edition rules. Titan (Powered Armor) Crusader (Martial Artist) Flare (Energy Projector) Starlet (Energy Projector) Lady Victory (Patriot) Star Spangled Hero (Patriot) Gargoyle (Winged Brick) Starburst (Energy Projector) Icestar (Energ Projector) Rose (Mentalist) Marksman (Gadgeteer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition ialways read it "kirby loo" i guess i was instintivele coorecting it Since that spelling was referenced in (I think) 5e, it's likely you weren't the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition acrobatics should cost 10 pints and give +2 dcv for for a half move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition acrobatics should cost 10 pints and give +2 dcv for for a half move1. Why? 2. What does that have to do with this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition "ACROBATICS: This skill gives the character the ability to perform rolls, tumbles, flips, etc. like a circus acrobat. A character may perform Acrobatics on a roll of 9+(DEX/5) or less for 10 pts. The character gets +1 to his Acrobatics Roll for every +2 pts. A successful Acrobatics Roll will allow a character to land on his feet after being Knocked Back so that the character does not take any damage from impacting against the floor. Acrobatics takes a 1/2 move to perform. A successful Acrobatics Roll adds +2 to a character's DCV. A character may not add the +2 DCV from Acrobatics to the DCV bonus from doing a Dodge Maneuver. Cost: 10 pts. Base Rolls 9+(DEX/5), +1 per 2 pts." - Page 10, Champions (1st Edition) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition So are we just stating 1st Ed rules at random? I still don't know what his point was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition So are we just stating 1st Ed rules at random? I still don't know what his point was... Perhaps it's a way of saying he likes the 1E rules. Or, I thought he might just be thirsty. I know that I could still be drinking if everyone that took Acrobatics had to give me 10 pints. To keep this post somewhat on topic... I agree with Tasha (#2). You can make the game what you want. Use rules, or don't, as you see fit. It's mostly the flavor of the game, and you can do that with the current rules. And if you don't have a group that was playing back-in-the-day, they won't necessarily be on the same RPG nostalgia page as you. I say this after having given some thought to the same idea just recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Dude, the differences between 1st and 2nd edition were incredibly minor. Those supplements were for either 1st or 2nd edition. Heck in those days they didn't even think of it in terms of 1st/2nd edition. 2nd edition was just another printing where they could fix some typos (ie Sleath becomes Stealth) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Maybe you could use the First Edition Characters using the 5th Edition rules. Titan (Powered Armor) Crusader (Martial Artist) Flare (Energy Projector) Starlet (Energy Projector) Lady Victory (Patriot) Star Spangled Hero (Patriot) Gargoyle (Winged Brick) Starburst (Energy Projector) Icestar (Energ Projector) Rose (Mentalist) Marksman (Gadgeteer) You could try, but there were no official writeups for those characters available in the early days (ex what the Original Players were using, but those were never published). Also, if you were going to use the character it would be best to bring them into compliance with what ever edition the GM decides to use. There were some broken ways to build characters in the old days. I am sure that the founders all played to the spirit of the rules without munchkinisms, but some of the broken builds weren't seen as munchkin in those days. Again, in the core 1st/2nd rules there were like 5 skills including the one martial art, Acrobatics (which gave +2 DCV when the roll was made), Deduction, and a couple of others that escape me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition "ACROBATICS: This skill gives the character the ability to perform rolls, tumbles, flips, etc. like a circus acrobat. A character may perform Acrobatics on a roll of 9+(DEX/5) or less for 10 pts. The character gets +1 to his Acrobatics Roll for every +2 pts. A successful Acrobatics Roll will allow a character to land on his feet after being Knocked Back so that the character does not take any damage from impacting against the floor. Acrobatics takes a 1/2 move to perform. A successful Acrobatics Roll adds +2 to a character's DCV. A character may not add the +2 DCV from Acrobatics to the DCV bonus from doing a Dodge Maneuver. Cost: 10 pts. Base Rolls 9+(DEX/5), +1 per 2 pts." - Page 10, Champions (1st Edition) 3 pts Acrobatics 9+(Dex/5) 7pts Acrobatic moves +2 DCV (10 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Skill roll (Acrobatics); -1/2) (6ed Build) See the language has changed a bit, but you can simulate all of the good parts from 1e/2e in 6e without all of the badly written rules. I was happy when 3rd edition came out so that I didn't have to thumb through 3 different Champions rules books to make a character. I was very happy when 4th edition came out and made Hero a Universal System (it also fixed stuff that 3rd edition didn't fix or broke in new ways). I welcomed 5th edition for the clarifications of the rules from 4th edition. 5er had more explanations which helped me to understand the powers etc better. 6e had some things that I wasn't sure of at first, but now that I have played it and built a ton of characters with it. I believe that it is the best version of Hero ever. The 2 book format is somewhat daunting, but worth it for clarity and the freedom that it brings to Char Gen. YMMV. I played through those editions and had fun with them. I know that the rules didn't have much to do with that because they were imperfect at best. I had a great GM and he taught all of his players how to RolePlay and not to just play a RPG as a Tactical (Your Genre Here) Combat Simulator. Which is how we played most games up to then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition You could try' date=' but there were no official writeups for those characters available in the early days (ex what the Original Players were using, but those were never published). [/quote'] Did their stats not appear in the "Champions" comic published by Eclipse? (I'd need to go did to verify) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Even if they did, does the OP, or anyone else thinking of doing this, have access t them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Even if they did' date=' does the OP, or anyone else thinking of doing this, have access t them?[/quote'] I can go check downstairs and see if I'm right and (provided it's not a copyright violation) transcribe them or update them to 6th Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Issues #1 has character sheets for Raze (reader submission), Flare Issues #2 has Well (reader submission), Icestar, Morbanes Issues #3 has Powerhouse (reader submission), Giant and Demon Master. Issue # 4 has Rose and Malice Issue # 5 has Marksman Issue # 6 has Doctor Arcane and Lady Arcane Any interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition I'm certainly curious, but that is largely due to my never having seen them as I joined Hero during 5E. Don't put yourself out on my account, but if you dig them out anytime in the near future let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition I'm interested as a matter of historical curiosity, but I think all of the characters are under copyright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition I'm certainly curious' date=' but that is largely due to my never having seen them as I joined Hero during 5E. Don't put yourself out on my account, but if you dig them out anytime in the near future let us know.[/quote'] I have no patience. I dug them out and updated the list above. I'll wade through the reset of the "Heroic Comics" title I have and see what else is buried in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition I'm interested as a matter of historical curiosity' date=' but I think all of the characters are under copyright.[/quote'] Here's the interesting question: Assuming that we write up gaming stats for copyrighted material all the time (and we do) would it be ok to convert these character sheets 5th/6th since they were originally published with the intent of being used in this game (Champions) in the first place? Can I get a witness (lawyer)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Did their stats not appear in the "Champions" comic published by Eclipse? (I'd need to go did to verify) i read an issuethe stats were there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Did their stats not appear in the "Champions" comic published by Eclipse? (I'd need to go did to verify) Those weren't published by Hero Games. Therefore not "official". The comics were created by a seporate company called Hero Comics (which had no ties to Hero Games other than a name and the same group of friends) That company is currently know as Heroic Comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition I'm interested as a matter of historical curiosity' date=' but I think all of the characters are under copyright.[/quote'] To make the copywrite issue even more murky. Some of the people who gave permission for their character's to appear in the Heroic Comics Later changed their mind. I really don't know how close Heroic Comics worked with the Original people when it came to stats. As far as I am concerned the Heroic Comics titles are little more than fan fiction. Amusing by themselves, but not really revealing much of the original Guardians Universe. To me, Unless the Original player publishes the character or George MacDonald posts the stats (or Hero Games). I just can't see it as being an "Official Source". Here the wikipedia article on "The Huntsman" which is a renamed version of Bruce Harlick's Character The Marksman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntsman_(Heroic_Publishing) PS there WAS a thread where someone was posting jpg scans of the Stat pages from Heroic Publishing. Go find that for the 3rd edition(?) writeups of the characters. Also here's the drivethrucomics page full of Heroic Publishing's books. http://comics.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?&manufacturers_id=113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Here the wikipedia article on "The Huntsman" which is a renamed version of Bruce Harlick's Character The Marksman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntsman_(Heroic_Publishing) What's interesting is that they changed the name mid-story due to events during a time travel story. History got altered and the comic showed the insignia on Marksman's costume blurring and changing and then everyone started calling him Huntsman. The same events led to Mechanon becoming Mechano (bleh) and Foxbat becoming the Flying Fox. What's really funny is the somewhat recent revelation that the mysterious female super-thief Raven Gold (a Flare supporting character) is actually Flying Fox (Foxbat), dealing with the side effects of a shapeshifting spell that was placed on him off-panel by a member of DEMON way back in the original limited series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Re: Champions 1st edition Those weren't published by Hero Games. Therefore not "official". The comics were created by a seporate company called Hero Comics (which had no ties to Hero Games other than a name and the same group of friends) That company is currently know as Heroic Comics. Yeah. I am aware. There were, rather, "inspired by the Champions rpg". That being said, as a CYA, I am not posting the scans here (that'd be a no-no), but, after talking to my friend Tim (an entertainment and copyright lawyer), it was determined that since we are not challenging the copyright (like all the stats we have been writing up for superheroes and anime characters) that writing up the stats on here for personal use is fine. He said if I was wanting to place them permanently on my website that I should post "All trademarks and copyrights are owned by their respective owners. Every entry is labelled as to its source and state that all of those copyrights, trademarks, etc. are used without authorization and is not intended to challenge any trademark or copyright." So, when I get a chance, I will put up the 1st (3rd?) Ed stats and update them to 6th Ed. Because they are about as "official" as we'll ever see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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