Christougher Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Sparked by the idea that lead to my Anti Paladin thread, I had another thought. Evil PC groups have shown up before in superhero games (though they generally didn't work so well), but has anyone ever considered or played an Evil PCs Fantasy Hero game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Re: Evil PCs Fantasy (though not Hero). In college (KU) we had a huge gaming group (KUGAR - KU Gamers & Roleplayers). It was divided into multiple campaigns all inhabiting a single world. Travel around the world meant your character was ushered to a new campaign (GM permitting) by a special interim GM (Global travel often came at a cost, those guys were harsh!)... Well, there was no limit on the GMs as to what kind of game they ran. Many were standard, some totally neutral and one was pure evil... And loads of fun. The only reason it worked was the result of a cabal of higher level characters (an Anti-Paladin, a Half-Demon and a few others) that had a tight (if not antagonistic) relationship with each other. Their might kept new players (usually of much lower level) in line. I actually ended up running a caravan that traveled throughout the world, crisscrossing other GM's territories (with their permission and/or corroboration) in search of the lost city of Tarthalion... Great days!!! Since then we've attempted a High Fantasy Hero game with a decisively evil tone. It was actually called NEMESIS: FANTASY (based on the space game called NEMESIS SQUADRON, which you can read about if you follow the link in my sig). Unfortunately, though many very cool characters were created, it never really got off the ground due to a disappearing GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Re: Evil PCs No, never in the history of roleplaying has anyone ever considered this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Re: Evil PCs Especially not Fire Mountain Games, publishers of Way of the Wicked, an adventure path for Pathfinder designed for evil characters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Re: Evil PCs I just ran an evil PC campaign in Pathfinder. I felt that there were really only two motivations for a bunch of evil people to work together. One was more loot and the other was fear. The only problem with running such a group is it's hard to present any moral dilemmas. If a certain action works to the party's gain, then they'll do it no matter what the repercussions. On the other hand, the group is free to perform certain actions that a bunch of goodie two shoes wouldn't, so your players may end up having a lot more fun with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmcbride Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Re: Evil PCs Hey, Gary McBride here. I wrote "Way of the Wicked", the aforementioned evil campaign for Pathfinder (which by the way is not difficult to convert to Hero System). Thanks to Hugh for referring me to this discussion. The first book "Knot of Thorns" has a substantial essay on running evil games and the adventure is filled with advice within the text. Further, I have no received dozens of actual play reports and run four demos at a local gaming con plus of course our in house play-tests. In short, I know a lot about the practical side of evil games and would be happy to answer questions or offer advice. Here's my first and foremost piece of advice for running evil games -- give your PCs a reason to work together. And not a subtle reason either. Villianous PCs need strong bonds to hold them together -- stronger than heroic PCs need. In "Way of the Wicked" we provide those bonds by having you escape from prison together, being on the run in a truly lawful, heroic nation and then later by becoming members of an evil organization sworn to Asmodeus, the master of Hell. Being the bad guy is fun. Petty back-biting isn't. Give your PCs a reason to cooperate and then let the evil ensue. Working together, the world will tremble in your wake. Game on, Gary McBride Fire Mountain Games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethosos Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Re: Evil PCs Having played a game of such (3.5 D&D FR, as Cormanyr drow,) the best way to make a working evil campaign is to pre-create a tight, good reason to work together. In our case, we were all followers of Vaerun, a male drow deity naturally atagonistic to Lloth. That actually gave us reason to trust each other enough that we weren't being all backstabby; although I did snipe a few remarks about looting as the NE priest of the bunch. (We were sent to Mithral Hall, hunting down a dragon's treasure horde. I had fun cohercing dwarven shades to do my bidding.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs There are a lot of players who think that 'evil' means 'I'll stab my buddies in the back at the first opportunity.' These people generally cannot handle playing in an evil party... unless rampant PvP is what you are looking for. If you are looking to run a game centered around a party of evil characters that does NOT focus on PvP, your players need to come up with the reason they won't turn on each other at the first opportunity. Even evil characters can have friends they won't screw over on a whim... with a good reason, sure, but not on a whim... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs There are those who do that in "Good" aligned games as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs Having played a game of such (3.5 D&D FR' date=' as Cormanyr drow,) the best way to make a working evil campaign is to pre-create a tight, [i']good[/i] reason to work together. In our case, we were all followers of Vaerun, a male drow deity naturally atagonistic to Lloth. I played in a long-term Rolemaster game with the same idea. We were all working for an evil deity trying to climb back into power. We all had different jobs; my character ran various criminal guilds in several cities and was effectively funding the whole operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs There are a lot of players who think that 'evil' means 'I'll stab my buddies in the back at the first opportunity.' These people generally cannot handle playing in an evil party... unless rampant PvP is what you are looking for. At the same time, if the characters are all happy and co-operative with one another, it hardly seems "evil". It doesn't mean they stab each other in the back for no reason. It may well mean they will loot separately, and my Fighter may be much more inclined to sell that wand he picked off the wizard's corpse than offer it to the party arcane spellcaster. Making sure they stay powerful enough to help me, but don't get powerful enough to threaten me, would be a very valid objective. Whereas a Good party may be much more inclined to divide up the loot to strengthen the group as a whole, since I trust that Wizard to watch my back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs I ran a game once in which one player wanted to play an evil character. He was with the group in search of a powerful artifact he wanted for himself. Just as well they never found it. It had the power of Redemption, and would have Transformed his evil Psych Limits slowly over time into good ones. Lucius Alexander And an antipalindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs I don't want to know what an antipalindromedary is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs In the context of a party, 'evil' is how they treat people who aren't their friends. The evil party will level a town, murder the inhabitants, and salt the land if it's the easiest way to get what they want. That doesn't mean they don't have old friends, even people they trust, it just means they have a hard time making new friends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs In the context of a party, 'evil' is how they treat people who aren't their friends. The evil party will level a town, murder the inhabitants, and salt the land if it's the easiest way to get what they want. That doesn't mean they don't have old friends, even people they trust, it just means they have a hard time making new friends... QFT. An evil group might be internally kind and loyal to its members. They could genuinely care about and even love one another; they may sacrifice themselves for one another. They might also be a family of murderous cannibals. So, still very Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re: Evil PCs I've been in or run quite a few through the years. The majority of them have been in shades of grey S&S settings, in fact most of our evil PC games have been very setting dependent. let me think... Lahnkmar FH game. Dragerean FH game. Stormbringer Agents of Chaos game, our Rolemaster crimelord game. WHFRP campaign inspired by The Black Company. Every WoD game and many Amber games could be considered all Evil PC's almost by default.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmcbride Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Re: Evil PCs Just introducing myself. My name is Gary McBride and I wrote the aforementioned evil campaign. I published an essay about evil characters, have run a playtest, four con demos and have received now dozens of actual play reports from Europe and North American about evil campaigns. I would be happy to answer questions and give advice. Gary McBride Fire Mountain Games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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