Stratospheric Punch for 6E

[Steve]

I was playing around with some power ideas, and I came up with this one.

 

Stratospheric Punch: Flight 1m, Usable As Attack (+1 1/4), MegaScale (1m = 10 km; +1 1/4) (3 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Extra Time (Extra Segment, -1/2), Linked (STR; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/2)

 

Super-strong character hits and his target goes flying far away. I realize it has some Stop Sign abilities in the construction, but I'm just playing with builds now.

 

Opinions?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

Seems a bit too inexpensive, given its utility/power. Instant BFR(Battlefield Removal). I'd probably set a minimum base cost of 10 points in order to keep it kinda "balanced". I'd also suggest Leaping, UAA instead of Flight--it's more imprecise and probably better simulates the effect.

The more expensive way of doing it is to use multiple levels of Double KB. For a +5 "naked" Advantage on STR, you can have x1000 knockback(i.e., convert meters into km). Take it with the same ET(1 segment), plus Charges(x3, -1 1/2), and Costs END(-1/2), and for a 60 STR the cost is about 86 points. For a 100 STR, about 140 points. Of course, that version is way more lethal, potentially, since the target will be travelling at combat velocity and damage on impact will be calculated accordingly.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

I was playing around with some power ideas, and I came up with this one.

 

Stratospheric Punch: Flight 1m, Usable As Attack (+1 1/4), MegaScale (1m = 10 km; +1 1/4) (3 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Extra Time (Extra Segment, -1/2), Linked (STR; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/2)

 

Super-strong character hits and his target goes flying far away. I realize it has some Stop Sign abilities in the construction, but I'm just playing with builds now.

 

Opinions?

 

I like it.

 

Just for giggles, I'd tinker with it a bit; lower the megascale to 1km, buy meters of flight up to the character's maximum punching knockback, then add a limitation so that the target's megascaled flight in meters is no greater than the knockback from the punch.

 

Voila! Mega-scaled knockback by the kilometer.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

Seems a bit too inexpensive, given its utility/power. Instant BFR(Battlefield Removal). I'd probably set a minimum base cost of 10 points in order to keep it kinda "balanced". I'd also suggest Leaping, UAA instead of Flight--it's more imprecise and probably better simulates the effect.

The more expensive way of doing it is to use multiple levels of Double KB. For a +5 "naked" Advantage on STR, you can have x1000 knockback(i.e., convert meters into km). Take it with the same ET(1 segment), plus Charges(x3, -1 1/2), and Costs END(-1/2), and for a 60 STR the cost is about 86 points. For a 100 STR, about 140 points. Of course, that version is way more lethal, potentially, since the target will be travelling at combat velocity and damage on impact will be calculated accordingly.

 

Naked Power Advantages cost END by default unless the GM waves it (like most do if Reduced END is bought as a NA). Other than that I like this build.

[dmjalund]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

Megascale turns any power into a noncombat power - so unless the person sits still for it, youare almost certainly goinf to miss.

[DreadDomain]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

Megascale turns any power into a noncombat power - so unless the person sits still for it' date=' youare almost certainly goinf to miss.[/quote']

 

Which may be not that bad since a Stratospheric Punch could be a good follow-up after someone has been stunned. Or rather Stratospheric Punch should not be an option unless someone is almost helpless (surprised, stunned and the like).

[Steve]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

Megascale turns any power into a noncombat power - so unless the person sits still for it' date=' youare almost certainly goinf to miss.[/quote']

 

When I read through Megascale, it said it was a full phase action when used as an attack and halves DCV (unless GM rules otherwise) if used at any level above personal, so in the RAW it allows you to attack at full OCV and DCV.

 

Granted, the notion of Stratospheric Punch is intended to do the Hulk-level punches that send targets flying for miles.

 

I do like the idea of using Leaping as the basis instead.

[Christopher]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

When I read through Megascale, it said it was a full phase action when used as an attack and halves DCV (unless GM rules otherwise) if used at any level above personal, so in the RAW it allows you to attack at full OCV and DCV.

 

Granted, the notion of Stratospheric Punch is intended to do the Hulk-level punches that send targets flying for miles.

But this is a movement Power and Megascaled Movement powers are always consdiered to be used at NCM-speeds (0 OCV, 1/2 DCV).

 

I see a few problems:

Instant BFR. A "realy" big effect. And it will keep for some time.

Very high damage from impact (you can bet for maximumg falling damage).

The movement is too "instant". Even at 6 seconds/action, that power gives you no way to defend.

It is mass independent (unless you apply the Mass Limit for UAA).

 

As usual I think we should use the rules we have, instead of writing around them.

There are two ways to move a target by RAW, only "Throw Object" rules seem to fit (6E2 81; Shove is the other one). You can "Grab and Throw" in the same attack action (6E2 62), I see no reason why the SFX for this "Throw" maneuver can't be a "Startosphere punch".

So all you really need is to boost the throwing distance, wich can be done with Limited strenght/pushing strenght. But I am not 100% certain if "throwing up" is allowed, if the distance has a "gravity penalty" and how much the damage would be, so I asked:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/90179-Throwing-objects-upwards

 

 

There are also the rules for Long Range throws in APG I 10 (called "realistic" Throwing).

Page 11 has a small sub rule to use a Haymaker Like Maneuver to "access" these alternative throwing rules and there big distances in combat.

 

 

Another idea is, that this can simply be the SFX of the Hulk Knocking out a foe into deep stun.

Usually the guys to wich that happens aren't seen again that episode/adventure but also don't get caught. So it's propably just the GM fudging the world so that Abdomination isn't getting caught after being "Knocked out into deeps stun" by Hulk, but Hulk isn't cheated out of the Knockout either.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

There at at least 4 ways to move opponents by Raw. Throw, Shove, Knockback, and (Movement Power) Usable as Attack. Now I'm not saying Movement UAA is the way to go, but it is allowable by RAW and the fact that you have repeatedly made clear that you don't like it does not mean that there are not cases where it is appropriate. Your bias does not negate a legitimate Power build being used.

[Christopher]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

There at at least 4 ways to move opponents by Raw. Throw' date=' Shove, Knockback, and (Movement Power) Usable as Attack. Now I'm not saying Movement UAA is the way to go, but it is allowable by RAW and the fact that you have repeatedly made clear that you don't like it does not mean that there are not cases where it is appropriate. Your bias does not negate a legitimate Power build being used.[/quote']

The rules say it is okay. They also (in lenght) talk about how these things really easily get abusive. They even say that you shouldn't use Flight UAA, where TK works.

 

I think shove is unsiuted, because it is tied to much to the "along the ground" thing.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

I never said or implied Shove was suited for this build I just listed it with thepossible ways to move someone (the same as you listed it in the post I responded to). I just added the 2 ways you ignored.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

Well, x16 Knockback is a +2 Advantage, at the upper bound of what might be considered "normal range" for advantages(+1/4 to +2). On an attack that might do 10m of knockback(a 12d6 punch), it increases that to 160m, which is sufficient to remove someone from the battlefield for up to a turn(because it takes a while to get up and run/move back to the battlefield). It's not "stratospheric" knockback, but it's still "battlefield removal" level knockback. For that matter, a running throw with someone with pushed or limited added STR(up to 80-120 or so, say) will also send someone way off the battlemap. So, BFR in itself can still be accomplished without employing megascale attacks.

[phoenix240]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

And Heaven help you if you hit anything during your brief flight

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

 

I have a question about battle field range. If you ue this power in a Dragonball type game, or even against some Hulk like villians, don't they have riddicules movement where concerns of bfr would be minimal?