Tolkien Elves in Hero

[Christopher]

I am planning to built a Tolkien style elf for a player and unfortunately he has much more knowledge of them as I (I have seen the three movies, first release. That is it).

But I've found some information about thier abilities on a wiki:

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Elves#Characteristics

 

But I would need some help getting proper examples of these abilities, so I can properly translate them into HERO terms for my campaign.

Power level will be low-powered to standart Superheroic (300 or 400 points) in 6E. Otherwie feats like in the films would be difficulty.

 

"They were about six feet tall and somewhat slender, graceful but strong and resistant to the extremes of nature."

Increased DEX, OCV, DCV, SPD, at least normal other characteristics. In part natural, in part just "years of training".

But what should I understand under "resistant to extremes of nature"? Do we talk about LS: Heat and Cold here? Immunity to less extremes (desert and normal winter)? Immunity to Poisions? (I heart of the "I feel a thingling in my hand after 20 ales" sentence)

 

"their senses, especially of hearing and sight, were much keener than those of men."

Easy: high INT for good base throw (and because it fits the old age thing); Enhanced Perception and Telescopic for Sight&Hearing. Range PSL for use of Weapons.

 

"Elves apparently did not sleep, but rested their minds in waking dreams or by looking at beautiful things"

I could see several levels:

Talent "Lightsleep". He is still distracted, but much still mroe observant than a sleepign person

too

LS: Does not Sleep, with a dependency to look at beautifull stuff or daydream once a certain amount every day.

 

"they could communicate mentally with each other."

Since he will likely start out "removed" from his people I think I could leave it out, but what level are we talking about?

Simply empathy or direct conversation?

How well must the other be known?

What distances does this work at?

 

"Their archery skills were unsurpassed."

Pretty much a result of high senses, agility and looong time for training. So already covered above.

Maybe extra STR to cover the big draw of a big bow.

 

"The elves possessed skills and knowledge that appeared as if 'magical' to men, thanks in part to their immortality and bond with Middle Earth. The proper term persay is "enchanting", working with nature to improve something that's already there, not alter it. They were able to create artifacts of great power from the palantir to hithlain, and of course; the rings of power and the Silmarils. By default their craftsmanship is a blend of form and function, and can last for ages."

Does this mean "badass craftsmen if they learned it"? Or could they do more extreme stuff?

 

"Although they could be slain or die of grief, elves were not subject to age or disease."

LS: Does not Age, Immunity to Diseases

Maybe a succeptibility to greiving? But with all emotion based limitations it is hard to figure out when they kick in.

 

"Elves could recover from wounds which would normally kill a mortal man."

What do you think? Extra body? Regeneration? Extra CON?

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

I'd fact check anything written by someone who thinks "persay" is a word.

 

That aside, your suggestions look good. For the last one, I'd say high CON, BODY and REC . Tolkien elves are pretty much demigods, and should have pretty decent stats.

[Evenglare]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Eh, to go and say they are demigods is kind of a stretch. The Valar are gods (really angels/children of Illuvatar) who chose to go to earth. The Maia /Istari / Wizards /Sauron are demigods more so than elves. The elves were just the first born, they can die almost as easily in combat as men although your reference does say they can take a bit more punishment , in theory it seems that way, but in most of the books elves usually die in wars as easily as man... They indeed can not die of sickness or old age... but that's just about it. Also they can use a bit of magic but nothing as powerful as the Istari. The one thing that gives men the edge over elves are their adaptability and the fact that men can die and make their own fate while the elves can not. Also elves can die from grief, so that might be something to look at as well.

[Christopher]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

I'd fact check anything written by someone who thinks "persay" is a word.

 

That aside, your suggestions look good. For the last one, I'd say high CON, BODY and REC . Tolkien elves are pretty much demigods, and should have pretty decent stats.

Well, half the stuff I wrote were actually questions. It would be nice if you knew answers for that.

 

The more I read and hear, the more I agree that the elven powerlevel is "far beyond those of normal men". People like Gandalf might still be stronger, but they are clearly on the broken/superheroic powerlevel anyway.

 

Elven magic: The only stuff I have seen in the movies and games was to use the magic of prepared artifacts - echnated rivers and trees, for example. Artifacts that were created ages ago, or at least creted over the coruse of hundreds of years.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Chirstopher look to see if you can get ahold of I.C.E Middle Earth Roleplaying System or merp for short. They would have write ups for elves and since ICE owned Champions at the time, they might also have a conversion for you.

[Christopher]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Chirstopher look to see if you can get ahold of I.C.E Middle Earth Roleplaying System or merp for short. They would have write ups for elves and since ICE owned Champions at the time' date=' they might also have a conversion for you.[/quote']

Conversions are only the second best resource. They are way to heavily based on the convertees interpretation and campaign style.

Reading the wikipedia (or a wikipedias) article and correleating them to specific situations is usually more helpfull.

[tkdguy]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

I did a few write-ups for 4th Edition. I'll look for them.

[McCoy]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

About the only other thing I remember from LOTR you haven't mentioned is that the elves were able to walk on a single rope like a bridge, and walk on top of snow instead of having to force their way through it.

[Christopher]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

About the only other thing I remember from LOTR you haven't mentioned is that the elves were able to walk on a single rope like a bridge' date=' and walk on top of snow instead of having to force their way through it.[/quote']

I was thinking of giving the character super-acrobatics based on flight anyway. This fits as well.

was their walkign on top of snow also trackless?

[McCoy]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

I was thinking of giving the character super-acrobatics based on flight anyway. This fits as well.

was their walkign on top of snow also trackless?

Don't recall that being mentioned one way or the other, but almost a decade since I read the book.

[McCoy]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

D'Ho! Animal Friend! Legolas spoke to a horse, then rode it without saddle or bridle, even convincing it to go on The Paths of the Dead.

[Christopher]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Don't recall that being mentioned one way or the other' date=' but almost a decade since I read the book.[/quote']

It's mostly based on tricks Legolas showed in the films:

Surfing down the stairs in Helm Deep on shield, while shooting orcs.

Climbing and shooting around on an Oliphaunt/Mûmakil.

 

So what you said above didn't strike me as odd. It's simply "extreme acrobatics skill/balancing" wich I would built as Flight with limitations. Of course that is only true for PC level elves with strong physical abilities (like a Legolas copy).

The average elven scholar won't be any more skilled than Characterics roll with a 15-20 DEX. If he even has the skill.

[Lucius]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

In the first book, when the Fellowship is passing through a land that Elves inhabited thousands of years previous, Legolas knows this, but not because he knows the history of his people. He knows because the land itself tells him. He says something like "The beasts do not recognize me, even the trees have forgotten the Elves. But the stones remember, and recognize me, and sigh 'deep they delved us, high they builded us, fair they wrought us; but they are gone.'"

 

He doesn't just talk to animals; he is in communion with the land itself, everywhere he goes.

 

 

When they take the Paths of the Dead, Legolas is said to be the only one who sees the dead clearly - and the only one with no fear of them. It's said elsewhere that the Elves see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, in the same way that Frodo sees them when he wears the Ring. I believe it was Gandalf who said of the Elves that "They live in both worlds at once" that is, the world of sense experience that Humans consider their "real world" and the realm of wraiths, shades, and other things mortals fear because they do not understand or percieve them clearly if at all.

 

 

I think this is connected to why the Elves do not sleep as Men and other mortals do. Mortals enter that world in dreams, and being spiritual beings, we cannot too long do without that contact and awareness, any more than we can do without feeding our bodies, but our consciousness is such that we can only be aware of one aspect of reality at a time. Elves need not dream because they are already dreaming, always present in what we may call Dreamtime or Faerie.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Like a palindromedary

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Eh' date=' to go and say they are demigods is kind of a stretch. [/quote']

 

Compare their abilities to demigods of legend, and then say that. I know full well what Tolkien's taxonomy was for the races, I'm talking in terms of ability. You're missing the point.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Well, half the stuff I wrote were actually questions. It would be nice if you knew answers for that.

 

Most of the stuff you wrote were suggested rules interpretations for abilities. I think they were fine, so if I agree with you, I suppose I don't have the "answers" you're looking for?

[Greywind]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Eh' date=' to go and say they are demigods is kind of a stretch. The Valar are gods (really angels/children of Illuvatar) who chose to go to earth. The Maia /Istari / Wizards /Sauron are demigods more so than elves. The elves were just the first born, they can die almost as easily in combat as men although your reference does say they can take a bit more punishment , in theory it seems that way, but in most of the books elves usually die in wars as easily as man... They indeed can not die of sickness or old age... but that's just about it. Also they can use a bit of magic but nothing as powerful as the Istari. The one thing that gives men the edge over elves are their adaptability and the fact that men can die and make their own fate while the elves can not. Also elves can die from grief, so that might be something to look at as well.[/quote']

I disagree. Feanor was well known to craft items that would be considered magical.

 

The Three Rings of the Elves were never touched by Sauron, nor did he have any part in their making. It seemed more bad luck on the Elves part that they were caught up by the magic of the One Ring. Even then, they didn't corrupt the way Sauron's rings did.

 

Feanor's mother was the first Elf to die. It wasn't from grief, but that when Feanor was born, the fire of her life was passed to him.

[Claire Redfield]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Eh' date=' to go and say they are demigods is kind of a stretch. The Valar are gods (really angels/children of Illuvatar) who chose to go to earth. The Maia /Istari / Wizards /Sauron are demigods more so than elves. The elves were just the first born, they can die almost as easily in combat as men although your reference does say they can take a bit more punishment , in theory it seems that way, but in most of the books elves usually die in wars as easily as man... They indeed can not die of sickness or old age... but that's just about it. Also they can use a bit of magic but nothing as powerful as the Istari. The one thing that gives men the edge over elves are their adaptability and the fact that men can die and make their own fate while the elves can not. Also elves can die from grief, so that might be something to look at as well.[/quote']

 

Some of the Elves did things like take on multiple Balrogs in combat, including the lord of Balrogs, as Ecthelion did, or, in Fingolfin's epic case, Morgoth himself. Elves were definitely demigods: they were physically more powerful than humans, had greater senses, powerful yet subtle magic, and the greatest of them were at least as powerful as the Maia, and possibly more so. They did impossible feats of crafting, of physical prowess and magical prowess (putting the mightiest of the Valar, lessened though he was, to sleep with a song) and more. They were as demigodlike as any Greek heroes, really.

[Christopher]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

I think stuff is now getting clearer:

"They were about six feet tall and somewhat slender, graceful but strong and resistant to the extremes of nature."

"Although they could be slain or die of grief, elves were not subject to age or disease."

"Elves could recover from wounds which would normally kill a mortal man."

Increased DEX, OCV, DCV, SPD, at least improved other characteristics.

 

I think at least 1 point of LS: Heat and Cold. Legolas walks through a heavy snowstorm like others walk in a summer breeze (generic high STR also helped)

LS: Does not Age, Immunity to Diseases, Immunity to Posions (this fits to Lord of the Rings Online as well).

 

"their senses, especially of hearing and sight, were much keener than those of men."

high INT gives a good base throw

Enhanced Perception and Telescopic for Sight&Hearing.

Range PSL for use of Weapons.

 

could thier hearing be targetting?

 

"Elves apparently did not sleep, but rested their minds in waking dreams or by looking at beautiful things"

LS: Does not Sleep

 

"they could communicate mentally with each other."

Still miss any information about this

 

About the only other thing I remember from LOTR you haven't mentioned is that the elves were able to walk on a single rope like a bridge' date=' and walk on top of snow instead of having to force their way through it.[/quote']

As noted before, this character will have flight with Limitations to allow such feats and other "acrobatic" stuff.

 

D'Ho! Animal Friend! Legolas spoke to a horse' date=' then rode it without saddle or bridle, even convincing it to go on The Paths of the Dead.[/quote']

I could see several levels:

Animal Handler on superheroic level

Follower

Building it as power, not Animal: Movement (as high as horses go), 0 END, Martial manifeastion and other limitations to activate.

 

In the first book, when the Fellowship is passing through a land that Elves inhabited thousands of years previous, Legolas knows this, but not because he knows the history of his people. He knows because the land itself tells him. He says something like "The beasts do not recognize me, even the trees have forgotten the Elves. But the stones remember, and recognize me, and sigh 'deep they delved us, high they builded us, fair they wrought us; but they are gone.'"

 

He doesn't just talk to animals; he is in communion with the land itself, everywhere he goes.

It might be a source of information and something I have to consider, but it's propably on the "not a power you need to pay for" level.

Certainly plot exposition material.

 

When they take the Paths of the Dead' date=' Legolas is said to be the only one who sees the dead clearly - and the only one with no fear of them. It's said elsewhere that the Elves see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, in the same way that Frodo sees them when he wears the Ring.[/quote']

This was among the deleted scenes of the third film (he talks about it). I am not certain this fits to how ghosts work in my campaign.

[McCoy]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

could thier hearing be targetting?

Believe the elves of Lothlórien said they could shoot the Fellowship because they were breathing so loudly, so I would say yes.

[tkdguy]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

No immunity to poison, since in the Silmarillion, Aredhel sickened and died from a poisoned dart thrown by her husband, Eol. Otherwise, as Christopher said.

[Lucius]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

No immunity to poison' date=' since in the [i']Silmarillion[/i], Aredhel sickened and died from a poisoned dart thrown by her husband, Eol. Otherwise, as Christopher said.

 

I believe there were also diseases in the Silmarillion that were so virulent that even Elves fell ill and perished of them. But such plagues were specially created by Morgoth for the purpose.

 

But they were certainly if not immune then highly resistant to all "ordinary" disease and poison.

 

 

Responding to my comment about communion with their environment - fauna, flora, and even the land itself:

 

It might be a source of information and something I have to consider, but it's propably on the "not a power you need to pay for" level.

Certainly plot exposition material.

 

One way to do it may be as a Contact.

 

Responding to my observation that Elves live simultaneously in both worlds:

 

This was among the deleted scenes of the third film (he talks about it). I am not certain this fits to how ghosts work in my campaign.

 

The point I was trying to make is that a major defining aspect of Tollkein's Elves is that they have a broader and deeper - at any rate, a very different - awareness of the world than a mortal.

 

 

Elves also have all the time in the world. A great deal of what makes Elves uncanny to Men possibly rests on the fact that an Elf has time enough to master, not just one discipline, but everything the Elf finds of interest. Over the centuries, off and on, an Elf has probably given more time and effort to a casual hobby than a Human can devote to a life's work. This applies less to a very young Elf of course, but the average Elf is probably not very young.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Composing the Palindromedarion

[Old Man]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

The one elven instance from LOTR that sticks out in my memory was when Legolas spotted Eomer's patrol approaching from five leagues away... and counted them, and described them as 'fair-haired'.

 

Note: For the love of the Silmarils, do not google for any combination of legolas and eomer.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Slash fiction? Yeah ...

[Claire Redfield]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

Nothing wrong with slashfic, though if you want to just find some passages from the books, it's annoying to have to try to wade through it.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Tolkien Elves in Hero

 

For the ability the Lucius mentioned-talking to the land,how about precognition? And if there is any limitation, it would be: limited understanding. As in, the land may remeber, but the details would be given in perspective of rocks or trees or what have you. And for magic, its either in the hobbit or Lotr, but magic for elves is a natural thing. Humans on the other hand seem to get in trouble if they mess with magical items. Oh and a note about the One ring and the elven rings. Iirc, the eleves found out about Saurons trick before he could corrupt the elen rings, but they were still linked to the One ring and once it was destroyed, the eleven rings lost their power and the eleven lands had to change, which is why most of the eleves were leaving middle earth.